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Fog_Battlecruiser_Haruna

A glimpse into the cv rework

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Take a look at the page.. now back at me... Now back at the page now back to me. Sadly it isnt me, but if people stopped complaining about the cv rework and switched to old spice it could smell like it was me.

Look in you hand theres an oyster with 2 santa crates with Missouri. Look again the missouri is now Alaska

Anything is possible when you smell like haruna not complain about the cv rework.

Im on a supercontainer.

 

 

 

Now that that is out of the way....

 

Stop with the blasting of the cv rework or at least give it a chance

As one of many who got to participate in the beta i would like to weigh in on the rework and explain why its not the end of the world

"Unlimited planes!!!!! Oh noes":  yes there are unlimited planes however due to the reload time on a wing, and the fact it takes longer to fly planes to a target you wont get more than 3 or 4 torp wings off before time runs out. This is not more than what a t 10 midway can do....

"Multiple strikes per wing": yes up to three strikes per wing. However these strikes are overall weak compared to current cv mechanics. Each torp does less dmg than current numbers by -25% give or take. Its also alot harder to land torp and bomb hits than in current cv rts mode. 

"Easy perma flood n fire" : false. Flood chance on torps was reduced and the dmg from bombs is much harder to obtain. And dmg from rockets is negligible.

"Its gonna be op, deleting ships left and right" : short of a detonation, or a lucky torp drop on a dd you wont see very many dev strikes in randoms. The inability to crossdrop will make it much easier to evade torps even as a kurfurst....

"Aa is broken": anti air is a little borked however its not impossible to shoot down planes. Its more important than ever to stay close together to overlap aa fire. Lone wolves are screwed.

 

Bbs: playing in the new rework, you will be forced to stay with your team, however you will find cvs to be less of a threat starting at t8

Cruisers: with your anti air consumable expect to drop 3-4 birds per wing you encounter just make sure you use tilde to choose aa sector.

Dds: rejoice! Gone are the days of being perma spoted by 5 wings of planes hovering overhead! No longer will you be forced to pop smoke the moment you get spottedor get shredded to death because the 3 wings of fighters hover overhead. 

 

 

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8 minutes ago, Fog_Battlecruiser_Haruna said:

Take a look at the page.. now back at me... Now back at the page now back to me. Sadly it isnt me, but if people stopped complaining about the cv rework and switched to old spice it could smell like it was me.

Look in you hand theres an oyster with 2 santa crates with Missouri. Look again the missouri is now Alaska

Anything is possible when you smell like haruna not complain about the cv rework.

Im on a supercontainer.

 

 

"Aa is broken": anti air is a little borked however its not impossible to shoot down planes. Its more important than ever to stay close together to overlap aa fire. Lone wolves are screwed.

You cant simultaneously maintain that CVs can't do big damage and then claim lone wolves are screwed. 

More important to stay close together? How when the AA bubble has only a 5.8 km radius? 

8 minutes ago, Fog_Battlecruiser_Haruna said:

Cruisers: with your anti air consumable expect to drop 3-4 birds per wing you encounter just make sure you use tilde to choose aa sector.

In what cruiser? I've been lucky to get 2-3 per entire match in Helena. 

Lemme guess, you played the Sky Artillery, not the Fodderbotes, on the PTS. 

 

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9 minutes ago, Fog_Battlecruiser_Haruna said:

Gone are the days of being perma spoted by 5 wings of planes hovering overhead

It only takes 1 squadron to keep you spotted though & if it keeps circling you to attack it not only can keep you spotted but doesn't return to the ship after the 1st drop but can continue attacking while spotting you.

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I suspect we will see an increase in disgruntled Captains standing on their deck angrily shaking their fist and yelling at the sky. 

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9 minutes ago, Taichunger said:

Lemme guess, you played the Sky Artillery, not the Fodderbotes, on the PTS

I acctually played alot of wooster and zao to see how the aa changes would effect them

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All though I like your idea to "Lets wait and see", I am not looking forward to all the players that will now get into CV's.  WG has made CV's operable by a less skilled player, and that means more players will be able to do more with out the skill level.  Ok, I know, it might not be bad, but what if it is bad?  What if the CV RW makes it so playing any surface ship sucks?  What do you think WG will do?

I just wish CV's where not in the game, that would have solved the problem right at the get go, but since they are, I just hope that any tweaking done by WG doesn't make it worse.

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Just gonna be different griefing about different mechanics.

As a rework hater the first beta was a disaster because it took forever to download the client, and in my first carrier game I died exactly they way I expect carriers will die when the rework goes live; hunted down and sunk thanks to the stupidly complex 100% manual attack controls.

The second beta was mostly spent proving exactly that; hunting down and murdering the cardboard boxes.

The third beta I finally calmed down and actually tried to be serious about things.

Horray, the controls aren’t as bad as I thought, they work.

So what.

It doesn’t make me like the entire stinking mess any more, or resent WG any less for their heavy-handed, battleaxe surgery approach to the rework.

Everyone shrieking for this rework finally get their wish; they’ve made their bed, and now they’re going to have to lie in it.

Edited by Estimated_Prophet

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58 minutes ago, Fog_Battlecruiser_Haruna said:

Take a look at the page.. now back at me... Now back at the page now back to me.

Haruna... always offering a glimpse of something.

bean.png.b69b57f2800f64c52849434b52abaa9e.png

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2 hours ago, Fog_Battlecruiser_Haruna said:

Take a look at the page.. now back at me... Now back at the page now back to me. Sadly it isnt me, but if people stopped complaining about the cv rework and switched to old spice it could smell like it was me.

Look in you hand theres an oyster with 2 santa crates with Missouri. Look again the missouri is now Alaska

Anything is possible when you smell like haruna not complain about the cv rework.

Im on a supercontainer.

 

 

 

Now that that is out of the way....

 

Stop with the blasting of the cv rework or at least give it a chance

As one of many who got to participate in the beta i would like to weigh in on the rework and explain why its not the end of the world

"Unlimited planes!!!!! Oh noes":  yes there are unlimited planes however due to the reload time on a wing, and the fact it takes longer to fly planes to a target you wont get more than 3 or 4 torp wings off before time runs out. This is not more than what a t 10 midway can do....

"Multiple strikes per wing": yes up to three strikes per wing. However these strikes are overall weak compared to current cv mechanics. Each torp does less dmg than current numbers by -25% give or take. Its also alot harder to land torp and bomb hits than in current cv rts mode. 

"Easy perma flood n fire" : false. Flood chance on torps was reduced and the dmg from bombs is much harder to obtain. And dmg from rockets is negligible.

"Its gonna be op, deleting ships left and right" : short of a detonation, or a lucky torp drop on a dd you wont see very many dev strikes in randoms. The inability to crossdrop will make it much easier to evade torps even as a kurfurst....

"Aa is broken": anti air is a little borked however its not impossible to shoot down planes. Its more important than ever to stay close together to overlap aa fire. Lone wolves are screwed.

 

Bbs: playing in the new rework, you will be forced to stay with your team, however you will find cvs to be less of a threat starting at t8

Cruisers: with your anti air consumable expect to drop 3-4 birds per wing you encounter just make sure you use tilde to choose aa sector.

Dds: rejoice! Gone are the days of being perma spoted by 5 wings of planes hovering overhead! No longer will you be forced to pop smoke the moment you get spottedor get shredded to death because the 3 wings of fighters hover overhead. 

 

 

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This ^, give things a chance. I'm sure if it is game breaking they will modify it WG is a business, why would they shoot themselves in the foot and lose a revenue source? I don't think they would. Let it play out and see how it goes, hell it may be fun, who knows.

Edited by T1mb3rWo1f

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Everyone keeps talking about some unlimited plane stuff.  I'll reply to that as soon as I run out of shells to fire in my other ships

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Why are we expected to give the CV rework a chance when it's being rushed for console release, has fundamental problems that haven't been addressed and have nothing to do with AA hysteria, and has been more of a preview than an actual test? Most ideas coming from CV players were ignored and not tested. You can't call this a test when it's obvious WG won't back down and has no intention of reconsidering. That's just an update and a [edited] one at that.

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3 hours ago, T1mb3rWo1f said:

This ^, give things a chance. I'm sure if it is game breaking they will modify it WG is a business, why would they shoot themselves in the foot and lose a revenue source? 

What do you mean? They already did immense damage to the game with the restricted T4 MM that has done nothing for player retention, which was its stated goal. And they refuse to admit they screwed up. They wont even talk about it.

The problem is not that Sky Artillery is a bad idea. The problem is that if it wrecks the game, they will refuse to admit it.

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6 hours ago, clammboy said:

2q9r9q.jpg

I have a similar reaction to any of Notser's videos whenever he directly talks to Wargaming. 45000 times in a single video.

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2 hours ago, Taichunger said:

What do you mean? They already did immense damage to the game with the restricted T4 MM that has done nothing for player retention, which was its stated goal. And they refuse to admit they screwed up. They wont even talk about it.

The problem is not that Sky Artillery is a bad idea. The problem is that if it wrecks the game, they will refuse to admit it.

Fair enough and valid. I'm just always in the camp of let's try instead of being against and never trying.

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The new interface never had a chance with me, and playing it on the PTS just confirmed everything I could see from the videos.  So, I'll be going from not playing CVs despite an interface I love because WG nerfed the hell out of the USN CV line (see, fighter build removal, before which I was up to the Lexington), to not playing CVs because the interface is clunky, janky, counter-intuitive, and literally makes me a bit queasy in a way similar to motion sickness... and the total removal of any option to directly engage the enemy carrier aircraft in the sky. 

 

My concern at this point is just that they don't make a bloody mess of the AA mechanics. 

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Most of the time, if you play your ship correctly you can avoid being deleted by some other ship which decides to go after you.  No so with a CV.  If they decide to go after you they can ruin your entire battle.  That's the issue.  It's not about mechanics.  And, they could go after you and another ship or two simultaneously if they were good.

I play mostly DDs and I can effectively deal with any other class of ship.  Another captain may out play me, but I had a chance and had tools to use against them.  If one ship goes after another, there is roughly a 50/50 chance you can be the winner and the other ship will be sunk.  If a remotely competent CV goes after me, there is not much I can do - game over.  If I lose then I'm sunk, if I win then he loses some planes and has to wait a while to attack me again.

Edited by BurglarOfBanff_ff
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9 hours ago, Fog_Battlecruiser_Haruna said:

Take a look at the page.. now back at me... Now back at the page now back to me. Sadly it isnt me, but if people stopped complaining about the cv rework and switched to old spice it could smell like it was me.

Look in you hand theres an oyster with 2 santa crates with Missouri. Look again the missouri is now Alaska

Anything is possible when you smell like haruna not complain about the cv rework.

Im on a supercontainer.

:Smile_teethhappy: Epic.

And you have good points with all the rest.

Part 1 of the PTS, I spent all my time in carriers. Part 2, I will spend some time in surface ships. SubOctavian was saying they've already made some tweaks to medium and long range AA.

PS: "Anything is possible when you smell like Haruna" - are we talking about the anime chick or the ship? This is important, as it's the difference between ladies' perfume for the one and fuel oil & burned cordite for the other. :Smile_hiding:

 

9 hours ago, IfYouSeeKhaos said:

It only takes 1 squadron to keep you spotted though & if it keeps circling you to attack it not only can keep you spotted but doesn't return to the ship after the 1st drop but can continue attacking while spotting you.

And then it's not attacking anybody else. That entire CV's plane complement is doing nothing else and can do nothing else, whether at Tier 4 or Tier 10. You're taking one for the team. And chances are your CV can bring its planes past you and drop fighters to help.


 

 

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8 minutes ago, Ensign_Cthulhu said:

:Smile_teethhappy: Epic.

And you have good points with all the rest.

Part 1 of the PTS, I spent all my time in carriers. Part 2, I will spend some time in surface ships. SubOctavian was saying they've already made some tweaks to medium and long range AA.

PS: "Anything is possible when you smell like Haruna" - are we talking about the anime chick or the ship? This is important, as it's the difference between ladies' perfume for the one and fuel oil & burned cordite for the other. :Smile_hiding:

 

And then it's not attacking anybody else. That entire CV's plane complement is doing nothing else and can do nothing else, whether at Tier 4 or Tier 10. You're taking one for the team. And chances are your CV can bring its planes past you and drop fighters to help.


 

 

Not to mention you actively have to make the squad circle now vs passively parking it.

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9 hours ago, Fog_Battlecruiser_Haruna said:

yes there are unlimited planes however due to the reload time on a wing, and the fact it takes longer to fly planes to a target you wont get more than 3 or 4 torp wings off before time runs out.

That hasn't been my experience.  On the occasions I have seen enemy CVs, they had zero trouble keeping 2 flights in the air.  Strike with wing 1, switch back to CV and launch wing 2 while 1 is automatically coming back.  By the time wing 2 has completed it's run, you can launch wing 3 and wing 1 should have started it's rearm.  Plus unlike right now, the planes don't have a single drop and then they have to rearm.  You can circle around and come back for another strike without having to return to the carrier.

Now it is easier to deal with a single wing at a time than several wings at once like we have now.  But now the power of the planes are balanced by the power of the AA they face (or at least should be, which is debatable).   As my AA weakens due to constant HE damage, I know that the CV air wing are also being weakened.  Currently that is not the case on test and it needs to be carefully monitored to ensure that balance is not lost.

 

10 hours ago, Fog_Battlecruiser_Haruna said:

Easy perma flood n fire" : false. Flood chance on torps was reduced and the dmg from bombs is much harder to obtain. And dmg from rockets is negligible.

People are saying that because right now you can typically use your DC after the strike and know that the CV won't be back for a bit while they fly back, rearm and return.  Giving your DC time to come off cool down for a possible second wave.   On test because that time frame is much smaller, you don't have that same condition.  Sure the damage is not a massive alpha strike but in exchange you are probably going to take more "dot" damage than most are accustom to.

 

10 hours ago, Fog_Battlecruiser_Haruna said:

anti air is a little borked however its not impossible to shoot down planes. Its more important than ever to stay close together to overlap aa fire.

This is far more difficult than it sounds, considering they removed the modules and skills that once increased AA range.  For example on my Hindie my AA range averages out to 5 KM (7km for long and 2 for short), so to over lap another ship in my aura they would need to be within at least 3 KMs.  Otherwise the enemy CV could just sail to the side I am no upon and strike from outside my aura.   Sorry but BBs tend to have a habit of being 18km+ snipers and DDs are way too close for most CAs comfort (considering the CA will draw all the enemy BB fire and be perma spotted by enemy DDs).   I am fine with all the changes in the change but AA seems way too weak right now.   

 

10 hours ago, Fog_Battlecruiser_Haruna said:

Cruisers: with your anti air consumable expect to drop 3-4 birds per wing you encounter just make sure you use tilde to choose aa sector.

You might, after they have already dropped and are starting a second attack run.  You need to be careful that you don't get caught up in chasing sectors, remember it takes 10-15 seconds for the change to take effect.   The biggest issue with the sectors is the poor interface to select them.  At least let us keybind them so I don't have to pull up the interface and then mouse over the sector I want.

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10 hours ago, Fog_Battlecruiser_Haruna said:

"Aa is broken": anti air is a little borked however its not impossible to shoot down planes. Its more important than ever to stay close together to overlap aa fire. Lone wolves are screwed.  

Relying on random players is never a good option. What if there is no ship with good AA nearby? What if that guy doesnt have a AA build? What if that guy is not paying attention to the battle or is not willing to help? 

 

Also, different ships play in different ways, USN cruisers for a example want to stay mid/close range behind a island. Not all ships want or can stay close. If im hidding next to him for AA help im might be useless for my team. 

 

And, at least for now, WG removed all ways to extend AA range. So relying on team mates to help you will be even harder since now ships only have stock AA range. 

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24 minutes ago, Ensign_Cthulhu said:

And then it's not attacking anybody else. That entire CV's plane complement is doing nothing else and can do nothing else, whether at Tier 4 or Tier 10. You're taking one for the team. And chances are your CV can bring its planes past you and drop fighters to help.

1)  Those planes are still spotting a wide area of the map while they attack.

2)  What sort of XP and credit payout will there be for "dodging aircraft attacks for most of a battle"? 

 

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8 hours ago, T1mb3rWo1f said:

I'm sure if it is game breaking they will modify it WG is a business, why would they shoot themselves in the foot and lose a revenue source? I don't think they would. Let it play out and see how it goes, hell it may be fun, who knows.

Yeah, there's that game that WG actually forgot about for years called "World of Warplanes" - after being a bit less hush hush over what was about to happen, in a massive rework, that many were either against out right, or when it got to PTS after no actual beta, said that it needed to be postponed and hammered out more and things fixed, even players that wanted it, only to have it forced out because schedule as an unplayable mess with massive issues that over the next months, even as they tried to fix it, absolutely decimated the player base to a point that bots had to be added to be playable in PvP. 

And this is basically the third time I've seen Wargaming do this, the second was I believe "Rubicon" on Tanks in which that time, Wargaming listened to the players, and cancelled the elements of the patch players took issue with till they could figure things out better.

So far Wargming is 1 for 2, and if they aren't careful, drop to 1 for 3. Throw in some other things, yeah, they are pretty good actually at shooting themselves in the foot... with a shotgun.

 

And Haruna, I've played all the tests of it, it's out of chances to impress me because it's been 4 times with basically no real change. And the "not enough data, we have to put it live" excuse isn't flying here. Did they drop subs on our heads? Localized weather and effects? Fixed/limited traverse torpedoes? Battle Royal/Thunderdome gameplay? - no. These and more all had proof of concept tests done in various events like Halloween, April Fools, etc. There was none for this CV gameplay, at all, and they only told us anything because the info was about to leak. This entire thing from day one has been mishandled - no proof of concept, the shroud of secrecy, no community input till they've decided what they wanted and basically ignore us, all of it. 

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10 minutes ago, BurglarOfBanff_ff said:

Most of the time, if you play your ship correctly you can avoid being deleted by some other ship which decides to go after you.  No so with a CV.  If they decide to go after you they can ruin your entire battle.  That's the issue.  It's not about mechanics.  And, they could go after you and another ship or two simultaneously if they were good.

I play mostly DDs and I can effectively deal with any other class of ship.  Another captain may out play me, but I had a chance and had tools to use against them.  If one ship goes after another, there is roughly a 50/50 chance you can be the winner and the other ship will be sunk.  If a remotely competent CV goes after me, there is not much I can do - game over.  If I lose then I'm sunk, if I win then he loses some planes and has to wait a while to attack me again.

Yea... But.....If you lose under current mechanics you are sunk in the 1st 45 seconds of game all the while he is simultaneously keeping most of your allied DDs perma spotted and controlling huge swaths of the map with vision presence.  If he is really clever and deplanes your allied CV your team loses almost every single time.  I get that it is frustrating that you can't attack it back.    Its the same difficult argument that Artillery faces in WOT.. But same thing goes for a smart stealthy DD pilot.. who can smartly play with a stealthy Dd until he scores with his torps. A well played CL spamming from behind an island.  It's part of the game now and has always been.   My biggest fear about the rework is this..... due to the damage over time element a CV singling out a ship, can at times take so long to sink it that both players will feel like they are locked in a half of a game struggle..  On the last Closed test I purposefully tried to sink a live player controlled Gearing with Midway and ended up chasing and harassing him literally for an entire match, in which I never managed it... It was just about impossible to kill it..He would have had to mess up bad to get caught in torp attack.. I only managed 1 hit over course of whole game with a torp.    Rockets can be a RNGfest with a squirmy quick DD.  But are the most effective tool against one you have.   He got smart in end and ended up carrying me closer to friendly aa support and that even made it take longer.  I'm sure by end of match he was pretty frustrated.  All he could do was evade me and all I did was  12K in damage in a T10 CV.    I could have easily churned out 100K by targeting enemy BBs.   Maybe never sinking any.    I'm really anxious to see it against live players.. I really think CVs are going to end up considerably less influential after this than many players believe...Unless they can really work together with teammates or especially allied CVs.    However,  the 1 player out of 12, that gets focused by a CV.. is going  feel very very distracted at the minimum...and that right there could be the rub.  the other 11 players will be doing business as usual.       90% of the test I've played in we have only seen BOTs... every single live player i faced was a real challenge.  And I felt very comfortable with controls and mechanics by  second closed test.    you pretty much have to focus one ship at a time... and each one takes time. some lots of time.     Ships in groups are virtually no fly zones due to what is now labeled as "Under performing" AA that they are apparently buffing.  I can't wait for the videos and forum screaming about having to spend an entire game evading and defending against a determined CV player and doing almost nothing else.   This rework will encourage team play.. Perhaps even more than current  one.         

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10 hours ago, RedSeaBear said:

I suspect we will see an increase in disgruntled Captains standing on their deck angrily shaking their fist and yelling at the sky. 

pDkvMo7.jpg

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