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KiwiSmurf

8.0 refunds for New zealand/australia

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Not sure if that'll work though because they changed the EULA, probably to prevent anyone from ever getting real money back. WGing is run by people who don't share western sensibilities.

Edited by HorrorRoach
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EULA is meaningless

NZ/AU consumer protection trumps it

no one remember valve/steam VS ACCC

steam said they didnt have to refund people in real money

and guess what. we have steam refunds that offer cash now.

EULA's/ToS, what ever word you use, don't exclude WG from breaking the law

the problem comes, WG is an international company, one complaint aint going to do much. basically needs to be a mass breach/complaints, which is why i posted this, if just one person reads this and makes a complaint, job done

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14 minutes ago, KiwiSmurf said:

EULA is meaningless

NZ/AU consumer protection trumps it

no one remember valve/steam VS ACCC

steam said they didnt have to refund people in real money

and guess what. we have steam refunds that offer cash now.

EULA's/ToS, what ever word you use, don't exclude WG from breaking the law

the problem comes, WG is an international company, one complaint aint going to do much. basically needs to be a mass breach/complaints, which is why i posted this, if just one person reads this and makes a complaint, job done

I am sure you are right, in all this, but :

 

Spoiler

 

7.4Wargaming makes the Content available to you subject to the following conditions:

(a)we can only make Content available to you if it is legal for you to have access to that Content in your home country;

(b)you may only obtain Content from us (or from any person or third party that we authorise for this purpose) and you must not obtain Content from any other person or attempt to do so;

(c)we reserve the right to refuse your request(s) to acquire Content, and we also reserve the right to limit or block any request to acquire or obtain Content for any reason;

(d)WE DO NOT GUARANTEE THAT ANY CONTENT WILL BE AVAILABLE AT ALL TIMES, IN ALL COUNTRIES AND/OR ALL GEOGRAPHIC LOCATIONS, OR AT ANY GIVEN TIME OR THAT WE WILL CONTINUE TO OFFER PARTICULAR CONTENT FOR ANY PARTICULAR LENGTH OF TIME (UNLESS WE EXPRESSLY SAY OTHERWISE AS PART OF THE SERVICES);

(e)once you have redeemed or activated Content, including without limitation any Virtual Good, it is not returnable, exchangeable, or refundable for other Content or for cash, or other goods or services; and

(f)we may change, replace, remove access to or update the Content at any time in our sole discretion. 

 

https://worldofwarships.com/en/content/docs/terms-service/

section 8 will be of interest to you.

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1 minute ago, LoveBote said:

I am sure you are right, in all this, but :

 

  Reveal hidden contents

 

7.4Wargaming makes the Content available to you subject to the following conditions:

(a)we can only make Content available to you if it is legal for you to have access to that Content in your home country;

(b)you may only obtain Content from us (or from any person or third party that we authorise for this purpose) and you must not obtain Content from any other person or attempt to do so;

(c)we reserve the right to refuse your request(s) to acquire Content, and we also reserve the right to limit or block any request to acquire or obtain Content for any reason;

(d)WE DO NOT GUARANTEE THAT ANY CONTENT WILL BE AVAILABLE AT ALL TIMES, IN ALL COUNTRIES AND/OR ALL GEOGRAPHIC LOCATIONS, OR AT ANY GIVEN TIME OR THAT WE WILL CONTINUE TO OFFER PARTICULAR CONTENT FOR ANY PARTICULAR LENGTH OF TIME (UNLESS WE EXPRESSLY SAY OTHERWISE AS PART OF THE SERVICES);

(e)once you have redeemed or activated Content, including without limitation any Virtual Good, it is not returnable, exchangeable, or refundable for other Content or for cash, or other goods or services; and

(f)we may change, replace, remove access to or update the Content at any time in our sole discretion. 

 

https://worldofwarships.com/en/content/docs/terms-service/

section 8 will be of interest to you.

not quite sure what your getting at

the mass consumer NZ and AU law breaches?

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3 minutes ago, KiwiSmurf said:

not quite sure what your getting at

the mass consumer NZ and AU law breaches?

Hey I am in the EU, playing on the NA server (too). It is confusing. But, when you clicked the accept button, in your WOWS client, you accepted the WOWS NA terms of service. (I agree, they are very one sided.) If you succeed in getting reimbursed, for the full cash value of your acquisition of in game virtual goods and services, we will all be interested to know. Not least, because we never hear about that happening, on this forum.

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EULAs aren't worth the paper they're printed on.

Any consumer right stated in law or regulation takes instant precedence over the EULA, within the jurisdiction where that law or regulation applies. 

 

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6 minutes ago, LoveBote said:

Hey I am in the EU, playing on the NA server (too). It is confusing. But, when you clicked the accept button, in your WOWS client, you accepted the WOWS NA terms of service. (I agree, they are very one sided.) If you succeed in getting reimbursed, for the full cash value of your acquisition of in game virtual goods and services, we will all be interested to know. Not least, because we never hear about that happening, on this forum.

this is what im trying to explain, under NZ/AU law, our consumer rights comes before that agreement in court,that agreement is almost meaningless so legally you can seek a cash refund. and WG wont offer cash refunds, which is why i post this

 

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39 minutes ago, RipNuN2 said:

:cap_popcorn:

 

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Some people seem to be reacting to this as if it's a whine-thread, or as if it's an unreasonable demand, or something.   Under the laws in question, there's a real issue that someone at WG should be taking into consideration and preparing for -- Valve already lost this fight in the Australian courts, I don't think WG is going to turn around and get a different ruling.

 

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In America, we have the right to make contracts, by agreeing to the EULA, you are in a agreeing to that contract. You would have to show breach of contract before you could legally get them to refund any money/monies. Which means you would have to file a lawsuit with the proper court and of course win. Losing can cost you all of the court costs. That's freedom and the right to contract.

Edited by Sovereigndawg

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4 minutes ago, Sovereigndawg said:

In the US we have the right to make contracts, by agreeing to the EULA, you are in a agreeing to that contract. You would have to show breach of contract before you could legally get them to refund any money/monies. Which means you would have to file a lawsuit with the proper court. That's freedom and the right to contract.

Yeap.

But...

First, the thread is about Australia and New Zealand.

Second, even in the US, it's a very tricky thing enforcing a contract that requires one of the signers to give up a right protected under law.

 

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22 minutes ago, KilljoyCutter said:

Yeap.

But...

First, the thread is about Australia and New Zealand.

Second, even in the US, it's a very tricky thing enforcing a contract that requires one of the signers to give up a right protected under law.

 

I realize that the thread is not about the USA. I also think it's great that a country will take on a court case for it's people. In the USA it would be at the cost of the citizen (complainant), of course if you did win, it would cost the Defendant for the court costs.

Edited by Sovereigndawg

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The OP will most likely succeed in getting the refund from his bank or the payment system. The bank will sue WG for the money.

WG will almost certainly ban the account immediately.

WG will lose in court (it would be an Australian court), the OP would get his money back...and not be able to play WoWs again.

Of course, if he was leaving the game anyway...it wouldnt be much of a loss to him.

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3 minutes ago, Daniel_Allan_Clark said:

The OP will most likely succeed in getting the refund from his bank or the payment system. The bank will sue WG for the money.

WG will almost certainly ban the account immediately.

WG will lose in court (it would be an Australian court), the OP would get his money back...and not be able to play WoWs again.

Of course, if he was leaving the game anyway...it wouldnt be much of a loss to him.

Or... having read the OP's post..  WG will decide to NOT give refunds in that region to not risk any implications in law and those players will just have to look at their pretty carriers for ever or just sell them as normal.

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Just now, MaliceA4Thought said:

Or... having read the OP's post..  WG will decide to NOT give refunds in that region to not risk any implications in law and those players will just have to look at their pretty carriers for ever or just sell them as normal.

Do that and the region will most likely ban them from making sales or operating in the region.

The OP is on solid legal ground there...WG is not.

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Judge:  What is on the schedule for today Betty?  Are we finally going to be able to get that child out of their abusive parent's home?  Put a few murderers away for life?  Finalize that adoption?

Betty:  Sorry sir.  Before we can deal with those issues, we have to deal with a gamer who spent $50 on virtual goods, got exactly what he paid for, after signing an agreement with said company acknowledging that they didn't allow this, and now wants it back because, well, welcome to the new entitled generation!

Judge:  *Cries*.  Here is $50, please leave.  What is next Betty?

Betty: A person who spilled coffee on her lap after getting it from the McDonald's drive through, is suing because the coffee was "hot".

Judge:

th?id=OIP.2cPwRYae5GrTvTe7dHgspAHaGs&w=2

Edited by Old_Baldy_One
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3 minutes ago, Old_Baldy_One said:

Judge:  What is on the schedule for today Betty?  Are we finally going to be able to get that child out of their abusive parent's home?  Put a few murder's away for life?  Finalize that adoption?

Betty:  Sorry sir.  Before we can deal with those issues, we have to deal with a gamer who spent $50 on virtual goods, got exactly what he paid for, after signing an agreement with said company acknowledging that they didn't allow this, and now wants it back because, well, welcome to the new entitled generation!

Judge:  *Cries*.

Australian law, already settled in court in the big Valve case. 

And the part of the point in that law is that the customer won't actually have what they paid for, but something else that the seller tried to substitute in after the sale was final. 

Is it "entitlement" if you buy an offroad truck, and then object loudly when one day the manufacturer shows up with a flatbed and says "we're substituting this E-car for your truck"? 

The software industry needs to decide if they're selling real things, or selling digital copies -- right now, they want it both says depending on what suits them at the moment.  If they're selling real things, then they can claim that someone is stealing those real things, but they can't turn around and sub them out when it suits them.  If they're selling infinite digital copies, then they have more leeway to make changes, but they can't claim that a copy was stolen as if it were a real thing.

 

Edited by KilljoyCutter
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1 minute ago, KilljoyCutter said:

Australian law, already settled in court in the big Valve case. 

 

Yet, if WG'ing refuses to obey that law, I would assume it would have to go to court.  Either way, it was sarcasm and a joke about frivolous lawsuits.

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6 minutes ago, Old_Baldy_One said:

Judge:  What is on the schedule for today Betty?  Are we finally going to be able to get that child out of their abusive parent's home?  Put a few murder's away for life?  Finalize that adoption?

Betty:  Sorry sir.  Before we can deal with those issues, we have to deal with a gamer who spent $50 on virtual goods, got exactly what he paid for, after signing an agreement with said company acknowledging that they didn't allow this, and now wants it back because, well, welcome to the new entitled generation!

Judge:  *Cries*.

I think you're confused about the difference between criminal and civil court. 

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Folks we do understand this is a controversial issue and there will be a time and place for this, but as refunds aren't being offered at this time this is a bit off topic and a little premature.  We do need feedback on other information released today and would ask you provide us your thoughts in that regard.  Thank you!

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