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LowSpeed_US

So what is meant when said "ABC is a good DD as XYZ nation"

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As the title suggests. What is meant when someone types for example; "Mahan is a good DD, if you're a good USN DD player" (could be any ship, of any nations available).

Looking forward to your seasoned suggestions.

 

p.s. Happy New Year to all.

 

 

Edited by LowSpeed_US

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4 minutes ago, LowSpeed_US said:

What is meant when someone types for example; "Mahan is a good DD, if you're a good USN DD player" (could be any ship, of any nations available).

They mean that Mahan exemplifies the strengths and weaknesses of the USN DD play style. If you're good at that play style, Mahan will perform well for you. Conversely, if you are not good at that play style, it will not.

Mahan is a good ship, but she needs someone who is good at the USN DD play style to reach her potential.

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One example in the Mahan case is being able to manage the shell arcs well to trade effectively, which is a staple of USN DDs. Another is squeezing out 110% of your long smoke, again a trait of USN.

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13 minutes ago, Lert said:

They mean that Mahan exemplifies the strengths and weaknesses of the USN DD play style. If you're good at that play style, Mahan will perform well for you. Conversely, if you are not good at that play style, it will not.

Mahan is a good ship, but she needs someone who is good at the USN DD play style to reach her potential.

Hi Lert,

With few battles under my belt. I know this may be a silly question to ask as one. "USN DD style", "IJN DD style", "Russian DD style", "KM DD style", "RN DD style", "Pan Asian DD style"...so many sure. So these are my understanding of each so far, please correct me of any wrong assumptions. Maybe I need to update my understanding of their usage due to new addition 

USN DD:

  • Primary: Guns
  • Secondary: Torpedoes
  • Tertiary: good detection level/long charge smoke

IJN DD:

  • Primary: Torpedoes
  • Secondary: Good detection level

Russian DD:

  • Primary: Guns
  • Secondary: Speed

KM DD:

  • Primary: Guns
  • Secondary: Torpedoes
  • Tertiary: ok detection level/Hydro

Pan Asian DD:

  • Primary: Guns
  • Secondary: Deep water torpedoes
  • Tertiary: good detection level/Quick & good smoke charge

RN DD:

  • Primary: Guns
  • Secondary: Torpedoes
  • Tertiary: good detection level/Hydro/quick & short smoke charge

 

Have I missed something? I've used Mahan as an example. It could be any DDs of any line.

Edited by LowSpeed_US

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It goes a lot more in-depth than just 3 bullet points. For example, Russian guns are very different from US guns.

The 5"/38 for example, the most common gun on the USN DD line and used from mid tiers all the way to the end, is a low velocity, high arc, high ROF mount that takes a long time to get to the target (so is difficult to use at long range) but with very fast gun traverse, so can be used while throwing the ship around in hard turns. The high arc also means you can park behind an island and shoot over top of it, as long as a teammate lights up a target for you.

Then there are Russian guns like the 130mm found on higher tier Russian DDs. They have a lower ROF than the USN guns, but a higher muzzle velocity, higher damage numbers and higher penetration on the AP. The higher muzzle velocity means they have a much flatter arc, so can't readily be used from behind an island. It also means the shell reaches the target a lot faster, so it's easier to use against long range targets. Finally, the turrets traverse a lot slower, meaning that they're very difficult to use in a close-range brawl with the ship being thrown around in hard turns.

So while both have 'guns' as primary bullet point, they couldn't be more different if they tried; they're basically each other's opposite.

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I must admit that the previous was rather a very basic outline of the various destroyer lines, and while I'm aware of the various gun types in all of them. I was trying to get to the gist of the 'line' usage. As you have pointed out in the post above. I suppose, the point I'm getting at is this; What would be the widely known & understood quality of each ship tier?

i.e. RN DD = good contest cap DD, etc.

 

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In my experience players try to force a ship to play how they want it to, rather than how it should be played.  Its no different than using a butter knife to drive screws.  Understand how a boat plays, and you will be far more successful and as a result enjoy the boat more. 

There are few complete trash DDs in the game, but lots of trash DD players.

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1 hour ago, LowSpeed_US said:

Hi Lert,

With few battles under my belt. I know this may be a silly question to ask as one. "USN DD style", "IJN DD style", "Russian DD style", "KM DD style", "RN DD style", "Pan Asian DD style"...so many sure. So these are my understanding of each so far, please correct me of any wrong assumptions. Maybe I need to update my understanding of their usage due to new addition 

USN DD:

  • Primary: Guns
  • Secondary: Torpedoes
  • Tertiary: good detection level/long charge smoke

IJN DD:

  • Primary: Torpedoes
  • Secondary: Good detection level

Russian DD:

  • Primary: Guns
  • Secondary: Speed

KM DD:

  • Primary: Guns
  • Secondary: Torpedoes
  • Tertiary: ok detection level/Hydro

Pan Asian DD:

  • Primary: Guns
  • Secondary: Deep water torpedoes
  • Tertiary: good detection level/Quick & good smoke charge

RN DD:

  • Primary: Guns
  • Secondary: Torpedoes
  • Tertiary: good detection level/Hydro/quick & short smoke charge

 

Have I missed something? I've used Mahan as an example. It could be any DDs of any line.

I find it more illuminating to track damage by source for each boat.  Some outliers exist like Ognevoi in an other wise pretty gun focused line.

Most Russian DDs are roughly 80/20 guns to torps damage.

RN and IJN Gunboat DDs are roughly 70/30 guns to torp damage.

US, German, smoke PA DDs are usually 50/50 gun to torp damage.

IJN Torp Boats roughly 30/70 guns to torp damage and so on.  Tracking things this way gives players an idea if they are not using a weapon system enough, or have issues using them efficiently when combined with information for the server average damage, and other stats for the ship in question.  Common signs for example US DDs having mostly damage ratios closer to IJN torp DDs is a sign you might not be using your guns enough, or very little gun damage in IJN Torp DDs means you are not using your guns enough.

Tracking things in this manner can highlight deficiencies in your play compared to how top players perform in that ship.

 

Edited by Destroyer_KuroshioKai
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It means that every nation has different traits.  And lets just make some points real quick.

 

  • DD play can be very situational
  • Majority of the time you are leading the team
  • Sometimes you do no damage and you cap or spot and stuff like that
  • Sometimes you go all the way around and torp em from behind
  • Bla Bla Bla...there are many situations

With this said, some DDs are better as things than others.  For example, ijn has really good concealment. you can stealth torp the crap outta ppl.  US dds can be gun boats but the arcs are super high which could be good for shooting over islands in some situations.  Or maybe we can just roam around and shoot stuff like a russian one.  Or maybe we can have more of a defensive/offensive balance like RN. 

 

But let me just be frank with you right now.  I am a DD main.  And what you need to do in a game is determined many times by a game.  So if someone says "Mahan is good if you are good USN DD"  is garbage.  

Mahan is good if you are a good DD.  DDs are important.  an exception is maybe the Russian line.  You don't always have to be the best dd for that since they are basically the worst "team DDs" 

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1 hour ago, Destroyer_KuroshioKai said:

Tracking things in this manner can highlight deficiencies in your play compared to how top players perform in that ship.

I think that is a great point, and a very good way to improve on ones performance per battle. I will have to revisit my stats page to look through it. Thank you.

 

1 hour ago, Rickjoshi1765 said:

DD play can be very situational

This is a great point as well (of course, many aspects of the battles are situational). Using a Leningrad's advantage to out flank or her guns great velocity to hit unsuspecting ships as one example. I thoroughly enjoy the Destroyer gameplay. I used to be a "DD main", but now I'm just cycling through the various ships to get reacquainted. With the latest addition of the RN DD line. I am enjoying the DD game play as before. Difference now being, I'm more aggressive (taking calculated chances) with RN DD line.

 

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1 minute ago, LowSpeed_US said:

This is a great point as well (of course, many aspects of the battles are situational). Using a Leningrad's advantage to out flank or her guns great velocity to hit unsuspecting ships as one example. I thoroughly enjoy the Destroyer gameplay. I used to be a "DD main", but now I'm just cycling through the various ships to get reacquainted. With the latest addition of the RN DD line. I am enjoying the DD game play as before. Difference now being, I'm more aggressive (taking calculated chances) with RN DD line.

Yeah everything can be situational but to me it can vary greatly.  Like sure there is a situation where ppl might push or camp etc,  but most ppl in a cruiser or BB are usually trying to do a bunch of damage.  Where as a dd you sometimes have to go for a hockey assist.  Maybe the torps miss but they are broadside, or maybe you see the guy flooding and you call it out and so on.  DDs just have more to pay attention to and the better ones don't just always go out trying to torp the world.  They watch and run the game doing many things

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