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capncrunch21

CV rework: People need to chill out - the new system works

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Please read this whole post before responding to just the title. :Smile_honoring:

I was in the same boat (pun intended) as most folks I see responding to the new CV rework - I didn't like it. I can't tell you the number of threads, You Tube posts, and 'reviews' I have seen about how much people think it is terrible. 

Well, after playing the new system A LOT on the test server, I have done a 180. It is actually fun once you get into the rhythm of how it all works together.

The key is to completely forget how the old system worked. NOTHING in the new system is the same - and that's a good thing. So many of the responses to the new system are based off comparing it to the old system. And that is exactly the trap people are falling into.

For example, there is a fairly well known You Tuber who has extensive knowledge and experience with CVs showing how much he dislikes the CV rework. He shows videos from both CV play and regular ship play against CVs. In the CV play videos he constantly says how different the play is from the old system and that he can't do the same things - this is EXACTLY the point of the new system, but he just can't let the old system go. Which leads into his regular ship play video against planes. He is sailing a Montana (a ship renown for its AA) and complains how it is doing very little against the constant aircraft attacks against him. Throughout the 15 minute battle he goes on and on about how he can't control his AA and so the planes can attack him with relative impunity. But you see what I just said don't you? He was under constant plane attacks for 15 minutes and didn't die  - more importantly, he only lost about half his health. In the old system if a CV focused on him he would have been dead, D-E-A-D, dead with the first wave as the Tier 10 CV player overwhelmed his AA with all his squadrons in a single pass, dive bombing and cross-dropping undodgably close torpedoes on him. This You Tuber fell into the comparison trap and didn't realize what had just happened - he survived a full battle being focused by a Tier 10 CV. Another example of the new system hysteria is a thread on these forums right now from someone who made a rather lengthy post about how much they hate the CV rework with paragraph after paragraph of 'facts' - -  and it comes to light that they HAVEN'T EVEN PLAYED THE NEW SYSTEM ON THE TEST SERVER. 

So really folks, chill out on the new system hatred. You need to stop comparing it to the old RTS system which everyone agrees doesn't work well in WoWs. Completely forget how the old system worked - the new system works and is actually fun to play once you do. 

 

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Well, thanks for your perspective on the rework, I look forward to the update, and honestly don't mind either way, it'll work, or it won't, and WG will keep working it until it does.

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14 minutes ago, capncrunch21 said:

Completely forget how the old system worked - the new system works and is actually fun to play once you do. 

I think that's the exact answer.  Alas, many people are too invested in the old way to listen to anything, and/or just hate change.  Also, the CV haters want their opportunity to make the CV gone.

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Something I don't quite understand is that some of the people posting are acting as though the coming update is the Final Product when WG has said there will be several rounds of balance adjustments. I remain cautiously optimistic and will continue to follow its progress.

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1 minute ago, echelon5 said:

Something I don't quite understand is that some of the people posting are acting as though the coming update is the Final Product when WG has said there will be several rounds of balance adjustments. I remain cautiously optimistic and will continue to follow its progress.

Most of what is to be adjusted are numbers, and that is the part that requires the most iteration.  The base system actually works, but it'll take a LOT of data and iterations to get the numbers tweaked correctly.

 

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18 minutes ago, capncrunch21 said:

Please read this whole post before responding to just the title. :Smile_honoring:

I was in the same boat (pun intended) as most folks I see responding to the new CV rework - I didn't like it. I can't tell you the number of threads, You Tube posts, and 'reviews' I have seen about how much people think it is terrible. 

Well, after playing the new system A LOT on the test server, I have done a 180. It is actually fun once you get into the rhythm of how it all works together.

The key is to completely forget how the old system worked. NOTHING in the new system is the same - and that's a good thing. So many of the responses to the new system are based off comparing it to the old system. And that is exactly the trap people are falling into.

For example, there is a fairly well known You Tuber who has extensive knowledge and experience with CVs showing how much he dislikes the CV rework. He shows videos from both CV play and regular ship play against CVs. In the CV play videos he constantly says how different the play is from the old system and that he can't do the same things - this is EXACTLY the point of the new system, but he just can't let the old system go. Which leads into his regular ship play video against planes. He is sailing a Montana (a ship renown for its AA) and complains how it is doing very little against the constant aircraft attacks against him. Throughout the 15 minute battle he goes on and on about how he can't control his AA and so the planes can attack him with relative impunity. But you see what I just said don't you? He was under constant plane attacks for 15 minutes and didn't die  - more importantly, he only lost about half his health. In the old system if a CV focused on him he would have been dead, D-E-A-D, dead with the first wave as the Tier 10 CV player overwhelmed his AA with all his squadrons in a single pass, dive bombing and cross-dropping undodgably close torpedoes on him. This You Tuber fell into the comparison trap and didn't realize what had just happened - he survived a full battle being focused by a Tier 10 CV. Another example of the new system hysteria is a thread on these forums right now from someone who made a rather lengthy post about how much they hate the CV rework with paragraph after paragraph of 'facts' - -  and it comes to light that they HAVEN'T EVEN PLAYED THE NEW SYSTEM ON THE TEST SERVER. 

So really folks, chill out on the new system hatred. You need to stop comparing it to the old RTS system which everyone agrees doesn't work well in WoWs. Completely forget how the old system worked - the new system works and is actually fun to play once you do. 

 

 

Well said. :Smile_honoring:

 

But the sky is falling is a periodic thing here when big changes happen. 

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2 minutes ago, Kizarvexis said:

But the sky is falling is a periodic thing here when big changes happen. 

Doesn't even have to be a big change.  Nerf someone's sacred cow, and the sky is falling again...

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The sky may not be falling for the CV gameplay - but changes to all the other ships in regards to AA in order to accommodate new CV gameplay..... the sky probably is falling at the moment.

Will be watching that REAL close!

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18 minutes ago, capncrunch21 said:

Completely forget how the old system worked - the new system works and is actually fun to play once you do. 

Tier 4 feels like an exercise in chip damage right now, an ability to make very long range shots over any sort of terrain with light cruiser armament. In fact, if I take the attack run in close enough to do anything meaningful ATM, I can almost fantasize I'm using this:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glomb 

The problem is that the new attack mechanics are completely manual, more so even than the current "manual drop" is, and everyone's on a steep learning curve. That will improve eventually, as will sticking together for AA fire support.

But it's fun to pretend I'm firing TV-guided surface-surface missiles from a 1920's-vintage ship, even if I can't actually crash them into the target ship and have to make the final attack with the airplane's weapons. (Imagine if we could. No doubt T10 IJN ships will get a Kamikaze option eventually, and my suggestion to balance that is that it should remove your ability to use that type of aircraft for the rest of the battle once the squadron is spent.)

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If anything the new system is going to be even easier to counter than the old system,  but the anti-CVer's aren't going to listen to anything in the realm of logical.

Flipside,  the people who preferred the old CV system aren't going to listen because its different.  To be honest, I understand this view point a lot more.  Its changing from something familiar to something foreign.  It sucks,  it really does.

For my two cents,  I rather enjoy it.  I actually joined WoWS because of carriers but due to certain changes they made along the way I sorta fell out of love with them.  While this new system doesn't fill me with the same kind of joy the old one did,  I still find it fun enough to grind out the RN line when it releases.

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6 minutes ago, mavfin87 said:

Doesn't even have to be a big change.  Nerf someone's sacred cow, and the sky is falling again...

:Smile_teethhappy:

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26 minutes ago, capncrunch21 said:

Please read this whole post before responding to just the title. :Smile_honoring:

I was in the same boat (pun intended) as most folks I see responding to the new CV rework - I didn't like it. I can't tell you the number of threads, You Tube posts, and 'reviews' I have seen about how much people think it is terrible. 

Well, after playing the new system A LOT on the test server, I have done a 180. It is actually fun once you get into the rhythm of how it all works together.

The key is to completely forget how the old system worked. NOTHING in the new system is the same - and that's a good thing. So many of the responses to the new system are based off comparing it to the old system. And that is exactly the trap people are falling into.

For example, there is a fairly well known You Tuber who has extensive knowledge and experience with CVs showing how much he dislikes the CV rework. He shows videos from both CV play and regular ship play against CVs. In the CV play videos he constantly says how different the play is from the old system and that he can't do the same things - this is EXACTLY the point of the new system, but he just can't let the old system go. Which leads into his regular ship play video against planes. He is sailing a Montana (a ship renown for its AA) and complains how it is doing very little against the constant aircraft attacks against him. Throughout the 15 minute battle he goes on and on about how he can't control his AA and so the planes can attack him with relative impunity. But you see what I just said don't you? He was under constant plane attacks for 15 minutes and didn't die  - more importantly, he only lost about half his health. In the old system if a CV focused on him he would have been dead, D-E-A-D, dead with the first wave as the Tier 10 CV player overwhelmed his AA with all his squadrons in a single pass, dive bombing and cross-dropping undodgably close torpedoes on him. This You Tuber fell into the comparison trap and didn't realize what had just happened - he survived a full battle being focused by a Tier 10 CV. Another example of the new system hysteria is a thread on these forums right now from someone who made a rather lengthy post about how much they hate the CV rework with paragraph after paragraph of 'facts' - -  and it comes to light that they HAVEN'T EVEN PLAYED THE NEW SYSTEM ON THE TEST SERVER. 

So really folks, chill out on the new system hatred. You need to stop comparing it to the old RTS system which everyone agrees doesn't work well in WoWs. Completely forget how the old system worked - the new system works and is actually fun to play once you do. 

 

Read your post.

That's great for you, really.

The rework solves none of the supposedly problems AND none of the real problems of CVs from the old system.  None of them.   Carriers will still spot large swaths of the map just by having planes in the air, I was getting tons of spotting ribbons and spotting damage in the PTS.  AA is a total wreck in the rework, for reasons detailed elsewhere.  The skill gap will be worse, not better, as this is a much trickier and jankier interface than the RTS-like ever was,

As for "fun", there's nothing fun about it.  The controls are janky and clumsy and unresponsive.  Those who can't get a handle on them are going to quit CVs in frustration at least as often as they did the old system.  And those who master them are likely to get bored with just spamming one group out at a time, dropping some bombs, lather rinse repeat.

 

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29 minutes ago, capncrunch21 said:

the new system works and is actually fun to play once you do. 

Is it really though?  Or are you taking your opinion as objective fact?  AA seems very weak and underwhelming to me after watching multiple videos, so I dislike the rework and am not looking forward to the months of painful and unfun patches as WG attempts to balance and tweak their Frankensteinian mess of a rework (and will likely fail at)

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why do i want to "survive" the whole game constantly being bombed by a CV player? and constantly have to avoid torpedo and bombers and expose myself broadside to other ships, and CAN'T FIGHT BACK at all, even if i don't sink (which is a big if), you call that fun? yeah fun for the CV player, not for me

Edited by Happy668
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6 minutes ago, Happy668 said:

why do i want to "survive" the whole game constantly being bombed by a CV player? and constantly have to avoid torpedo and bombers and expose myself broadside to other ships, and CAN'T fight back at all, even if i don't sink (which is a big if), you call that fun? yeah fun for the CV player, not for me

Very much this.  Unless you are going to give me direct control of the anti-aircraft guns, this doesn't sound like any fun for the non-CV player.  It might become a deal-breaker for some and cause them to quit playing.

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the new system make everyone the CV players' target practice, they just keep bombing you, enjoy

Edited by Happy668

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43 minutes ago, capncrunch21 said:

He was under constant plane attacks for 15 minutes and didn't die  - more importantly, he only lost about half his health. In the old system if a CV focused on him he would have been dead, D-E-A-D, dead with the first wave as the Tier 10 CV player overwhelmed his AA with all his squadrons in a single pass, dive bombing and cross-dropping undodgably close torpedoes on him.

He lost half his health. The CV lost stuff-all of its infinite aircraft. What a great trade.

 

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If people chill out over the CV rework than my sales of Torches and Pitchforks will go down. 

And if my sales go down I have to cut back on my orders. 

If I cut back on my orders the fine people at OutRageTech.Inc won't make their earnings projections. This will lead to lay offs and people not being able to feed their families. 

So are you going to be the one who tells little Timmy and Anne why they aren't eating a good dinner tonight?

Keep raging against the CV rework. 

Do it for the Children. 

Edited by RedSeaBear
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I get what you are saying OP but i don't think it does work

A) It doesn't look fun for the CV player - it looks incredibly boring.  It might be a new interesting novelty now but I can't imagine doing this hundred of times working up through the CV tech trees.

B) It certainly doesn't look fun for the ship drivers that are under constant attack by unlimited waves of planes that take no damage.  An example of this is Notser's new video driving a full AA Gearing and not shooting down a single plane while being constantly spotted and under attack.

C)Though it does address it to some point and brings it down to where any potato can technically pull off driving a CV, It doesn't seem to address the skill gap in CV drivers - in this case those that can actually aim and land their shots consistently and those that can't.  This will still have a huge impact on the game.

All these things can be fixed but how much damage will it cause to the game/player base until it is?  The Fallout 76 / No Man's Sky / Battlefront mentality of RELEASE IT NOW - FIX IT LATER is going to put a lot of people off

  

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47 minutes ago, capncrunch21 said:

Please read this whole post before responding to just the title. :Smile_honoring:

I was in the same boat (pun intended) as most folks I see responding to the new CV rework - I didn't like it. I can't tell you the number of threads, You Tube posts, and 'reviews' I have seen about how much people think it is terrible. 

Well, after playing the new system A LOT on the test server, I have done a 180. It is actually fun once you get into the rhythm of how it all works together.

The key is to completely forget how the old system worked. NOTHING in the new system is the same - and that's a good thing. So many of the responses to the new system are based off comparing it to the old system. And that is exactly the trap people are falling into.

For example, there is a fairly well known You Tuber who has extensive knowledge and experience with CVs showing how much he dislikes the CV rework. He shows videos from both CV play and regular ship play against CVs. In the CV play videos he constantly says how different the play is from the old system and that he can't do the same things - this is EXACTLY the point of the new system, but he just can't let the old system go. Which leads into his regular ship play video against planes. He is sailing a Montana (a ship renown for its AA) and complains how it is doing very little against the constant aircraft attacks against him. Throughout the 15 minute battle he goes on and on about how he can't control his AA and so the planes can attack him with relative impunity. But you see what I just said don't you? He was under constant plane attacks for 15 minutes and didn't die  - more importantly, he only lost about half his health. In the old system if a CV focused on him he would have been dead, D-E-A-D, dead with the first wave as the Tier 10 CV player overwhelmed his AA with all his squadrons in a single pass, dive bombing and cross-dropping undodgably close torpedoes on him. This You Tuber fell into the comparison trap and didn't realize what had just happened - he survived a full battle being focused by a Tier 10 CV. Another example of the new system hysteria is a thread on these forums right now from someone who made a rather lengthy post about how much they hate the CV rework with paragraph after paragraph of 'facts' - -  and it comes to light that they HAVEN'T EVEN PLAYED THE NEW SYSTEM ON THE TEST SERVER. 

So really folks, chill out on the new system hatred. You need to stop comparing it to the old RTS system which everyone agrees doesn't work well in WoWs. Completely forget how the old system worked - the new system works and is actually fun to play once you do. 

 

I saw that video, and it didn't look like fun to be focused with no defense. Whether you live or not, to be the target of attacks like that without being able to defend yourself is frustrating and poor game design. Players hate being helpless.

If that is the brave new world I want no part of it.

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18 minutes ago, Happy668 said:

why do i want to "survive" the whole game constantly being bombed by a CV player? and constantly have to avoid torpedo and bombers and expose myself broadside to other ships, and CAN'T fight back at all, even if i don't sink (which is a big if), you call that fun? yeah fun for the CV player, not for me

 

9 minutes ago, mofton said:

He lost half his health. The CV lost stuff-all of its infinite aircraft. What a great trade.

 

I guess you guys would prefer instant death then instead of surviving long enough to push a flank by yourself and kill the two enemy CVs. 

Edited by Forgottensoldier117
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At least you don't have multiple sqaudorns attacking you at the same time, you know cross torp drops with bombs as well. I tried this out on the PTS, you can only control one set of planes at a time. Each pass you do with one set removes two planes till you are down to two then they go home. AA did seem a bit weak compared to how it is now. I was loosinf planes in my runs against good AA ships but they were not getting deleted out right as it can be done now. I am sure the AA dynamic will be adjusted as well as this first release will not be "final'".  As for others saying that it might be a steep learning curve, me and my 12 yr old figured it out in about 5 runs with each type.  It is not that hard.  

 

Get on the PTS and try it out. Much different than watching videos and reading forums.

Edited by Big_Pimpin

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1 minute ago, Forgottensoldier117 said:

 

I guess you guys would prefer instant death then instead of surviving long enough to push a flank by yourself an kill the two enemy CVs. 

why do we have to chose one of the two evils? why can't we survive long enough and kill most of CV's planes so he can no longer be effective and enjoy a defeat, why CV players have to be god and can't get feelings hurt like all of us do?

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