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capncrunch21

Carrier rework: CVs are now extremely long-range cruisers

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Forget everything you know about CVs.

Carriers in the new rework are now extremely long-range cruisers. If you keep that in mind, you will be much happier playing them - as they don't play anything like the old style.

Like cruisers, CVs are typically lightly armored ships that can only aim at one enemy at a time. You need to think of their unlimited number of planes as simply very long 'hang time' shells from the carrier. Just like most cruisers, they have 3 different 'ammo' types: HE (rocket planes), AP (dive bombers) and torpedoes (torp planes). And just like cruisers, their damage per hit is pretty small, but over time can add up. Even the torp planes don't do a lot of damage when they hit, think of Marblehead torpedoes - they do that kind of small damage. The only way to get really good damage numbers is with their Damage Over Time (DOT) effects. HE (rocket planes) set fires; the rockets themselves do little damage usually. AP (dive bombers) are just like cruiser AP, very situational and have to get a lot of hits to make good damage numbers. Torpedoes (torp planes) cause flooding; the torpedoes as mentioned above are pretty anemic compared to regular ship torpedoes and you can only hit with 2 per attack (unless Tier 10). I nailed a same tier BB with 8 of them over a period of time and only brought it to half health - WITHOUT any flooding damage. Which brings us to the DOT percentages - they seem to be extremely low. So be prepared to send many shells, err, squadrons, at an enemy in order to get a DOT to stick. However, wily enemy captains (and bots) will be pretty much immune to them through smart Damage Control use (and ai cheating).

Again, just keep playing like you were a cruiser. Send many shells (squadrons) down range and eventually you will beat down an opponent. (Gone are the 'alpha strike' days of one shot kills  - again, you need to completely forget what you know about CVs)

That said, this is how they are playing on the Test Server. The damage is pretty low - I didn't see a single game out of a couple dozen I playtested where a CV broke into the top 3 ratings. Most were bottom half of the list (a far cry from the current CV meta). And I don't think this was because people were having a hard time learning them. The damage is just low even with good attacks (see my 8 torps into a BB example above). However, as one of my clanmates pointed out, if WG follows their well established doctrine, CVs will be released in a much buffed stated when 0.8.0 hits the live servers - probably being overpowered in order to seduce people into playing them. Then the nerfs will follow once WG sees the numbers it wants.

I hope this helps future CV drivers. If you go into playing them with the above information and discarding any preconceived notions based on the old style of play, you will be much happier. :Smile_honoring: The new CVs are simply extremely long-range cruisers with really cool looking 'shells' that take time to hit their target.

Edited by capncrunch21
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Sounds like the good thing we had has been turned to garbage.

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2 minutes ago, Blorgh2017 said:

In short... kind of like the WoT artillery on water?

Funny,  last time I checked you couldn't see those shells coming from a mile away and either dodge them or shoot them down.  Dang,  maybe I am misremembering how artillery work...

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1 hour ago, capncrunch21 said:

Forget everything you know about CVs.

Carriers in the new rework are now extremely long-range cruisers. If you keep that in mind, you will be much happier playing them - as they don't play anything like the old style.

Like cruisers, CVs are typically lightly armored ships that can only aim at one enemy at a time. You need to think of their unlimited number of planes as simply very long 'hang time' shells from the carrier. Just like most cruisers, they have 3 different 'ammo' types: HE (rocket planes), AP (dive bombers) and torpedoes (torp planes). And just like cruisers, their damage per hit is pretty small, but over time can add up. Even the torp planes don't do a lot of damage when they hit, think of Marblehead torpedoes - they do that kind of small damage. The only way to get really good damage numbers is with their Damage Over Time (DOT) effects. HE (rocket planes) set fires; the rockets themselves do little damage usually. AP (dive bombers) are just like cruiser AP, very situational and have to get a lot of hits to make good damage numbers. Torpedoes (torp planes) cause flooding; the torpedoes as mentioned above are pretty anemic compared to regular ship torpedoes and you can only hit with 2 per attack (unless Tier 10). I nailed a same tier BB with 8 of them over a period of time and only brought it to half health - WITHOUT any flooding damage. Which brings us to the DOT percentages - they seem to be extremely low. So be prepared to send many shells, err, squadrons, at an enemy in order to get a DOT to stick. However, wily enemy captains (and bots) will be pretty much immune to them through smart Damage Control use (and ai cheating).

Again, just keep playing like you were a cruiser. Send many shells (squadrons) down range and eventually you will beat down an opponent. (Gone are the 'alpha strike' days of one shot kills  - again, you need to completely forget what you know about CVs)

That said, this is how they are playing on the Test Server. The damage is pretty low - I didn't see a single game out of a couple dozen I playtested where a CV broke into the top 3 ratings. Most were bottom half of the list (a far cry from the current CV meta). And I don't think this was because people were having a hard time learning them. The damage is just low even with good attacks (see my 8 torps into a BB example above). However, as one of my clanmates pointed out, if WG follows their well established doctrine, CVs will be released in a much buffed stated when 0.8.0 hits the live servers - probably being overpowered in order to seduce people into playing them. Then the nerfs will follow once WG sees the numbers it wants.

I hope this helps future CV drivers. If you go into playing them with the above information and discarding any preconceived notions based on the old style of play, you will be much happier. :Smile_honoring: The new CVs are simply extremely long-range cruisers with really cool looking 'shells' that take time to hit their target.

you mean like light cruisers that can fire torpedoes across the entire map right?

With near perfect accuracy ... you know that right?

floods and fires... nonstop.

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59 minutes ago, Palladia said:

Funny,  last time I checked you couldn't see those shells coming from a mile away and either dodge them or shoot them down.  Dang,  maybe I am misremembering how artillery work...

 

56 minutes ago, Forgottensoldier117 said:

 

Sounds like you have never played world of tanks because they are nothing  alike. 

No, I meant like how both have extreme range to attack a target with impunity. I know they both have more differences than similarities.

I should have been more clear on my previous post. My apologies.

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15 minutes ago, Blorgh2017 said:

 

No, I meant like how both have extreme range to attack a target with impunity. I know they both have more differences than similarities.

I should have been more clear on my previous post. My apologies.

Fair enough however I still don’t think they can attack without any penalties. The hull may not be at risk but the aircraft certainly are. Also even though air craft are unlimited you can’t just lose full squadrons and use a new fresh one right away. I think how fast some of the tier 10 CVs in particular get a full squadron back is going to be a balancing point that we may very well see moved around a bit as the balance gets worked out. 

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6 minutes ago, Blorgh2017 said:

 

No, I meant like how both have extreme range to attack a target with impunity. I know they both have more differences than similarities.

I should have been more clear on my previous post. My apologies.

I went straight for the snark button,  I am sorry about that. But the only actual similarity between the two is that they attack from a position where you can't immediately reach.  To help to quell the fear of coming CV's,  torpedo bombers have to drop from a long distance.  USN torpedoes are so slow that you'd have to be asleep to not dodge them,  they can no longer be dropped directly into the side of your ship.  IJN are even worse,  those 50 knot torpedoes have to be dropped from so far out that again,  you have to be asleep for them to hit you.

Dive bombers are thrown off a ton by maneuvering,  turning into them especially.  Turning into them forces the dive bomber to drop early or risk overshooting  the target,  and even high level dive bombers can't turn that fast.  Alternatively DD's can actually turn AWAY from dive bombers.  Tidbit here,  aircraft can only stay in attack mode for so long so if you have a fast ship you can turn away and make them stretch their legs.  If they start far off to have a smaller targeting radius they'll be short on time when they reach you.  So if they start a bombing run right on top of you,  turn into them,  if they start far off,  turn away from them if you're agile enough.

Rockets are similar to bombers,  but with less damage.  Turning away doesn't help much here since fighters are so fast and have a longer time to make attack runs.  DD's are their main target but again,  turn into them and force them to fire sooner or overshoot you.

The main thing people need to be worried about with the new CV's is stacking DoT's.  Cruisers and DD's with their short duration damage control parties are at greater risk,  while a goodly number of BB's aren't going to be as capable of dodging torpedoes. 

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