Jump to content
You need to play a total of 20 battles to post in this section.
Canadian_Reaper

Now that the Sky is Falling-What are the best AA Ships?

32 comments in this topic

Recommended Posts

Beta Testers
342 posts
6,255 battles

Hey All

So the new CV rework looks (to me-  with the note that I don't play CV's, I tried, I was pathetic in them, for the good of my teams i stopped trying) to make at least the high tier CV's stupidly powerful, I'm wondering what are the best AA ships in the game?

I get that AA is being reworked, so things will be a little different, but the ships themselves will be largely similar so I figured I may as well start grinding lines that lead to great AA to deal with the large number of CV's I'm likely to see.

I have the Desmoines, and the Montana, but how do the other cruiser/BB lines stack up for shooting down planes?

(Obviously the US CL line is good as well, but not sure about any others)

Can all the cruisers make great AA ships?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
231
[CSM]
[CSM]
Members
490 posts
5,387 battles

The rework is also changing a lot of AA values, so no one really can tell what the best ships will be, but I would assume that the USN CA/CL's will be right at the top.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Members
3,067 posts
2,545 battles
6 minutes ago, Canadian_Reaper said:

Can all the cruisers make great AA ships?

During the last Beta test, the cruisers had the better accuracy while the battleships had the raw damage. However the cruiser have Defensive Fire generally, the battleship doesn't.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3,731
[SYN]
[SYN]
Members
8,750 posts
15,279 battles

From watching streams of the rework, no ship seems to have good AA any more and the skills have been nerfed into the ground.

The inner-auras seem completely worthless, and the 'flak' very RNG, the problem seems to be that the flak has a large minimum range the carrier will get within, maybe the only way to have decent protection is to be in the outer aura of another good ship.

  • Cool 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
33,575
[HINON]
Alpha Tester
24,689 posts
19,844 battles
26 minutes ago, DarkStormy said:

The rework is also changing a lot of AA values, so no one really can tell what the best ships will be

To a point, but you can bet currently horrible AA ships will suddenly become awesome and currently awesome AA ships will suddenly become horrible. The AA numbers will change, but the general between-ship AA balance will remain roughly the same.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
94
[BEARS]
[BEARS]
Beta Testers
288 posts
8,529 battles

Been playing CV's up to T8 Jap on PT.   I do not have extensive experience in CV's, just enough to know that I'm not very good.

CV has to plan attack, consider timing.   All AA seems better.   

T4 against Orion and similar was no issue...cruisers were able to knock down a couple but avoidable.  DD's were annoying short range, but not an issue.

T6 against Nagato, KGV, etc  was about the same issue....lost more planes (perhaps to overly aggressive approaches),  escort cruisers were more effective.  Not game changing to me.   Better planning would have yielded better results.

T8 was murderous against the T10's such as Worcester as to be expected.   Distant approach against flak was costing 50% of squadrons, very few survived attack  (T8 v T10 mediocre CV player).  However, after attacks with hits, the AA concentration dropped pretty much as you might hope.

In my opinion the changes are pretty much as expected...different playing style, different rng values based on level both for AA effect and resistance.   I tried to get an AA build cruiser in lower and higher levels but never wound up against a CV.  I suspect testing parameters might have had something to do with that.

Take everything I say here with a grain of salt, it was just my limited experience on the PTS.   Going to get as much as I can before release.

  • Cool 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1,178
[RAGE]
Members
1,947 posts
8,190 battles

In Flamu's video, fighter planes seem to do quite a number on squadrons.  Maybe Musahsi in a double fighter setup might end up with some of the best AA in the game, given it can keep planes up with almost no downtime. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
113
[-IRS-]
[-IRS-]
Beta Testers
167 posts
4,974 battles

I  tested out a full AA build on the Gearing and Fletcher, it was exceptionally ineffective. They have decent flack damage and can decent burst counts if you use sector reenforcement but still only managed to kill 3 planes in an entire game. I even asked enemy CVs to attack me to test it out and despite having planes near me for almost a solid 5-10 minutes of the game, 3 was the best I could down by myself. My conclusion is that either there is a threshold of flack bursts needed before they can reliably down planes or that the constant DPS is by far the best AA defense. Not sure what the flack burst threshold is but I am relatively confident it is great than 10 (Gearing has 6 bursts + 80% reenforcement = 10.8 bursts and still was... underwhelming to say the least).

Also worth noting, AA bubbles don’t overlap.

Here has been my analysis of T10 cruisers thus far (With full AA builds):

Minotaur

Short: 267 DPS, 65% hit, 2km

Mid: 14 bursts, 4351 burst DMG, 1095 DPS, 90% hit, 5 km

Long: 8 bursts, 5555 burst DMG, 164 DPS, 90% hit, 6.9 km

Great damage, both burst and DPS, and best range. No DFAA (+50% DPS and +75% burst DMG)

Worchester

Short: 267 DPS, 65% hit, 2 km

Mid: 15 bursts, 4374 burst DMG, 1132 DPS, 90% hit, 5 km

Long: 8 bursts, 5735 burst DMG, 172 DPS, 90% hit, 6.9 km

Almost identical to Mino, but with DFAA

Des Moines

Short: 156 DPS, 65% hit, 2 km

Mid: 15 bursts, 4166 burst DMG, 1078 DPS, 90% hit, 5 km

Long: 7 bursts, 4814 burst DMG,  108 DPS, 90% hit, 5.8 km

Great DPS but weak long range burst DMG, DPS, and lacking in reach. 

Hindenburg:

Short: 280 DPS, 65% hit, 2km

Mid: 11 bursts, 3791 burst DMG, 568 DPS, 90% hit, 5 km

Long: 9 bursts, 4666 burst DMG, 147 DPS, 90% hit, 5.2 km

Weak burst DMG, weak mid range DPS, and limited burst count. Long range basically doesn't exist (.2 km window).

Moskva:

Short: 259 DPS, 65%, 3.1 km

Mid: 8 Bursts, 3333 burst DMG, 296 DPS, 90% hit, 3.5 km

Long: 8 bursts, 5184 burst DMG, 142 DPS, 90% hit, 6.6 km

It's large short range means in the final moments of an attack run you lose out on the change for burst damage, it's mid range burst count and damage are worst for a cruiser, and has poor DPS. It's long range isn't bad though with decent burst counts, damage, DPS, and range. 

Henri IV:

Mid: 11 bursts, 3888 burst DMG, 628 DPS, 90% hit, 4.5 km

Long: 7 bursts, 5055 DM, 118 DPS, 90% hit, 6 km

Has no short range (actually a good thing). It's mid range is a bit smaller, is lacking in burst DMG, and has poor DPS but applies through the entire attack run (good vs dive bombers?). It's long range is weak on DPS, but okay on bursts, DMG, and range. 

 

If DPS is king then I would rank them as such: Worchester, Minotaur, Des Moines, Henri IV, Hindenburg, Moskva. Just my take on it though.

Edited by Imperial_Magnate
  • Cool 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
33,575
[HINON]
Alpha Tester
24,689 posts
19,844 battles
40 minutes ago, DouglasMacAwful said:

Maybe Musahsi in a double fighter setup might end up with some of the best AA in the game, given it can keep planes up with almost no downtime. 

Huh. Worth trying out ...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
10,389
[INTEL]
Members
13,459 posts
37,295 battles

The fighter planes have all been nerfed as well. Dont think even the two plane trick will work. 

There are no good AA ships at the moment, most ships cannot wholly defend themselves, and none appear able to eat 10-20 planes at a pop like Atlanta or Worchester. You can kiss your AA Sims goodbye....

Hopefully WG will revert the AA to the previous system. The current one is ridiculous and unfun.

I can't believe they are going to wreck the game to rework ships that the majority of players dont even want in the game. I used to think WG's customer orientation was poor. Now I think it is negative....

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
8,801
[PSP]
[PSP]
Members
13,673 posts
3 hours ago, Canadian_Reaper said:

I have the Desmoines, and the Montana, but how do the other cruiser/BB lines stack up for shooting down planes?

(Obviously the US CL line is good as well, but not sure about any others)

Can all the cruisers make great AA ships?

The Worcester is the single best AA ship in the game when spec'd for it. The Atago is relatively poor at AA. The Des Moines is almost as good as the Worcester at AA. The De Grasse struggles. The new Cleveland is sort of "meh" now because of the high-tier CVs it usually faces. However, the new Baltimore is a great AA ship. That is, you have to take the cruisers individually. How you spec them and what flags you fly also are as important as the base cruiser itself.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
545
[P-V-E]
Members
1,520 posts

would be interesting how an AA spec Conqueror fairs, given its very strong 40mm Bofors that can reach out >5km

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
11,207
[WOLF3]
Members
28,176 posts
24,541 battles
34 minutes ago, b101uk said:

would be interesting how an AA spec Conqueror fairs, given its very strong 40mm Bofors that can reach out >5km

Except AA ranges as a whole are gutted.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3,374
[HINON]
[HINON]
Members
8,280 posts
12,152 battles
1 hour ago, b101uk said:

would be interesting how an AA spec Conqueror fairs, given its very strong 40mm Bofors that can reach out >5km

it wont have 5km range after the rework, you cant extend AA range in the rework anymore, the way it is now, theres only 2 types of ship in the rework, Carriers and targets

 

Edited by tcbaker777

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
545
[P-V-E]
Members
1,520 posts
4 minutes ago, HazeGrayUnderway said:

Except AA ranges as a whole are gutted.

true I hear about that, but by the same token 40mm Bofors are he smallest AA on Conqueror.

 

the point being in some WG descriptions of changes they talk of "medium range AA" and on others they talk of "medium calibre AA", in reference to which AA produce flack vs. what will still produce a hemisphere of AA DPS.

 

now 40mm Bofors most often fills the "medium range AA" role in-game, but IMO 40mm Bofors is not "medium calibre AA", 40mm is less than 1/3rd the diameter of 152mm currently in-game and less than 1/5th the diameter of the 203mm DP using in late WW2 as AA.

 

next while 40mm Bofors HE used for AA did have a timer in, it was a fixed self-destruct timer and there was no proximity fusing until the late 1970's, the purpose of the 10sec timer was to avoid 40mm shells raining down in their ballistic trajectory causing damage to other ships and sailors manning them etc etc, so while they did explode and produce a "flack" like cloud at the ~10sec range that was just a self-destruct function, there main purpose was to penetrate aircraft at much closer range, while the like of 76mm and above the main method of damage was the flack explosion which is why they had variable timing and proximity fusing, the point being that 40mm Bofors should still be a hemisphere of AA DPS and shouldn't have "flack" like explosions being produced happening by inbound (or outbound) aircraft at ever-changing ranges, like would happen with variable timing/proximity fused shells fired with larger AA or DP guns.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
545
[P-V-E]
Members
1,520 posts
24 minutes ago, tcbaker777 said:

it wont have 5km range after the rework, you cant extend AA range in the rework anymore, the way it is now, theres only 2 types of ship in the rework, Carriers and targets

 

 

so what do Advanced Firing Training (commander skill) and AA Guns Modification 2 (ship upgrade) do now then?

 

are there going to be free commander respect for people who have taken AFT for the AA boost (which purportedly it no longer boosts range), and upgrade refunds for the removal of the AA Guns Modification 2 (which purportedly no longer dose what it says)?

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4,721
[ABDA]
Beta Testers
17,536 posts
12,810 battles
5 hours ago, Canadian_Reaper said:

Hey All

So the new CV rework looks (to me-  with the note that I don't play CV's, I tried, I was pathetic in them, for the good of my teams i stopped trying) to make at least the high tier CV's stupidly powerful, I'm wondering what are the best AA ships in the game?

I get that AA is being reworked, so things will be a little different, but the ships themselves will be largely similar so I figured I may as well start grinding lines that lead to great AA to deal with the large number of CV's I'm likely to see.

I have the Desmoines, and the Montana, but how do the other cruiser/BB lines stack up for shooting down planes?

(Obviously the US CL line is good as well, but not sure about any others)

Can all the cruisers make great AA ships?

Flamu posted a video of him playing his Midway.  He repeatedly flew his bombers over a Des Moines without risk.  Under the current system, a Midway would never try that crap.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Alpha Tester
624 posts
16,327 battles

The more I read and see on this rework, the more I wish I had just bought regular WG  premium time so I could still play tanks with premium.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Members
1,289 posts
2,399 battles
13 minutes ago, b101uk said:

 

so what do Advanced Firing Training (commander skill) and AA Guns Modification 2 (ship upgrade) do now then?

 

are there going to be free commander respect for people who have taken AFT for the AA boost (which purportedly it no longer boosts range), and upgrade refunds for the removal of the AA Guns Modification 2 (which purportedly no longer dose what it says)?

 

 

They still will help your secondaries but that is pretty much it. For your second question from what i have seen posted CV captains will get a respec but nobody else.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2,852
[90TH]
[90TH]
Alpha Tester
7,170 posts
4,063 battles
5 hours ago, DarkStormy said:

The rework is also changing a lot of AA values, so no one really can tell what the best ships will be, but I would assume that the USN CA/CL's will be right at the top.

Eh, I mean most of the USN Cruisers are that great at AA until you get almost to the end, "national flavor of AA" and all.

I guess it matches their national flavor of "mediocore" though.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
11,207
[WOLF3]
Members
28,176 posts
24,541 battles
13 minutes ago, Madwolf05 said:

Eh, I mean most of the USN Cruisers are that great at AA until you get almost to the end, "national flavor of AA" and all.

I guess it matches their national flavor of "mediocore" though.

As it stands right now in terms of AA, USN Cruisers start having only decent AA in Tier VI.  Pensacola has lots of AA DPS but range is the issue.  Dallas has range, but her DPS sucks balls.  USN Cruisers don't get it all together until Tier VIII for AA when they finally get AA DPS & Range.

 

But with the rework, all that range is gutted.  Worcester, Minotaur are going from 8.6km AA to around 6km.  DM is going to less than 6.  That is a massive loss castration of AA lethality.

Edited by HazeGrayUnderway

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
545
[P-V-E]
Members
1,520 posts
2 minutes ago, HazeGrayUnderway said:

DM is going to less than 6.  That is a massive loss castration of AA lethality.

maybe they are still fiddling with the numbers for the 203mm DP, which were not implemented in the base game yet for the purposes of AA? 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1,775
[--K--]
[--K--]
Alpha Tester, In AlfaTesters
2,533 posts
10,092 battles
On 12/29/2018 at 2:46 PM, crzyhawk said:

Flamu posted a video of him playing his Midway.  He repeatedly flew his bombers over a Des Moines without risk.  Under the current system, a Midway would never try that crap.

I saw this and merely sighed deeply.  I definitely won't be playing this game very much when 8.0 drops.  I'll be doing something much, much more amusing:  Sitting on these forums and watching as people of 3 different opinions post:

1.  Those who like the new CV rework that is looking to be in a few ways even more OP than the current CV system and probably will exploit that

2.  Those who hate the balance and will be really angry

3.  The CV mains who will never be satisfied because of the loss of the RTS system continue to lament the gameplay change

  • Cool 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

×