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mustangman6579

What happened to the DD limit?

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Did it get removed, or was there never one in the first place?

shot-18.12.26_01.49.42-0012.jpg

 

Before anyone goes, Well that's just one game. No. There was about 10 of these games that night just like this. 

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The matchmaker is allowed to break rules when it takes too long to form matches.

It is likely that in that particular match, one of the carriers had been waiting some time before a second carrier joined the queue.  As soon as the second carrier joined, the matchmaker scooped up enough ships to fill the match.  Thus it broke the rule about the destroyer limit.

Check your other games if possible, I would bet you a good dinner that most of those matches had a single carrier on each side.  Occasionally there are other hiccups that happen, where a match takes too long and the matchmaker just dumps everyone into a match when it gets to a certain point.  If you're playing late at night, you might bump into population issues, where there are just not enough people playing specific classes that you end up with odd games.  The more limitations they impose upon the matchmaker, the more often these sorts of games will happen at odd times.

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There never was one.  You can have 3, 4, 6 DD games.  I had a thread with 6 DDs on our team back in March.  The reds had 7 on their team.  But we had 2 Radar Cruisers.

 

ukiTwHO.jpg

Edited by HazeGrayUnderway

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I dont believe limits have ever existed.  I was in a battle last night with 7 DDs per side.  

God help us all after the CV rework goes live

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9 minutes ago, HazeGrayUnderway said:

There never was one.  You can have 3, 4, 6 DD games.  I had a thread with 6 DDs on our team back in March.  The reds had 7 on their team.  But we had 2 Radar Cruisers.

 

Quote

Matchmaker
In response to numerous requests from players, the forthcoming Update will introduce a "soft" limit on the number of destroyers in Random Battles to a maximum of four per team. The rule will be triggered if matchmaking for a battle takes less than three minutes for the first player in the queue for that battle. If the timer passes that point, the "old" matchmaking rules will apply.

http://wiki.wargaming.net/en/Ship:Update_0.7.10

Yes, there was a limit imposed.

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14 minutes ago, HazeGrayUnderway said:

There never was one.  You can have 3, 4, 6 DD games.  I had a thread with 6 DDs on our team back in March.  The reds had 7 on their team.  But we had 2 Radar Cruisers.

 

 

Yeah I didn't think there was a limit on DDs -- just CVs.  I see 5 DD matches a lot.  I thought the DD change that was implemented -- and this was maybe 1 year back or so -- was that there had to be the same number of DDs on each team.  And frankly that was a very good change to MM algorithm .

Edited by Dr_Dirt

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3 minutes ago, mustangman6579 said:

Says a soft limit of 4. It must be VERY soft because I see 5+ DD games ALL the time. 

Proof?  Say, your last thousand games, how many have been 5+ DDs?  Though, this assumes you have played a thousand games since the 0.7.10 patch.  Without having recorded your games in some way, you are just going on confirmation bias. 

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8 minutes ago, Gasboy said:

http://wiki.wargaming.net/en/Ship:Update_0.7.10

Yes, there was a limit imposed.

As per your own reference:

"Matchmaker In response to numerous requests from players, the forthcoming Update will introduce a "soft" limit on the number of destroyers in Random Battles to a maximum of four per team. The rule will be triggered if matchmaking for a battle takes less than three minutes for the first player in the queue for that battle. If the timer passes that point, the "old" matchmaking rules will apply."

 

MM throws it's own new rule out the window.  Basically when it does a "MM Dump" if people are in the queues a while.

 

So the high DD game stands.

 

A "hard" limit is something like what happens with CVs now.  Max 2 CVs per team.  There is no way to go around that, even in those weird, late night "MM Dumps."

4 minutes ago, Dr_Dirt said:

Yeah I didn't think there was a limit on DDs -- just CVs.  I see 5 DD matches a lot.  I thought the DD change that was implemented -- and this was maybe 1 year back or so -- was that there had to be the same number of DDs on each team.  And frankly that was a very good change to MM algorithm .

High Tier is especially where you can see a lot of DDs.  There's a lot of really nasty ones there.

Edited by HazeGrayUnderway

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Just now, HazeGrayUnderway said:

As per your own reference:

"Matchmaker In response to numerous requests from players, the forthcoming Update will introduce a "soft" limit on the number of destroyers in Random Battles to a maximum of four per team. The rule will be triggered if matchmaking for a battle takes less than three minutes for the first player in the queue for that battle. If the timer passes that point, the "old" matchmaking rules will apply."

 

MM throws it's own new rule out the window.  Basically when it does a "MM Dump" if people are in the queues a while.

 

So the high DD game stands.

 

A "hard" limit is something like what happens with CVs now.  Max 2 CVs per team.  There is no way to go around that, even in those weird, late night "MM Dumps."

Yeah, and I explained this in my very first post in this thread, right under the OP's post.

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5 minutes ago, Gasboy said:

Proof?  Say, your last thousand games, how many have been 5+ DDs?  Though, this assumes you have played a thousand games since the 0.7.10 patch.  Without having recorded your games in some way, you are just going on confirmation bias. 

Oh how I LOVE people like you. 

"Hey, I'm just gonna say you have no idea what you are talking about unless you can pull proof out of your [edited]right now cause that's a totally real thing that can happen."

Screw off. 

 

Thanks for answering my question, but screw off for asking for something you KNOW can't happen. 

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Just now, HazeGrayUnderway said:

Alright, cool.

No problemo. :)

I think that is the one thing people don't know or understand.  Many of the rules matchmaker follows are soft rules.  They can be broken in the interest of getting people into a game as quickly as possible.  Hard rules are stuff like, the +1/+2 tier matchmaking.  Ship class limits are soft limits, and will be broken.  Sometimes quite often, if certain ships are rare, for example 1 CV player sitting in a queue.

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Just now, mustangman6579 said:

Oh how I LOVE people like you. 

"Hey, I'm just gonna say you have no idea what you are talking about unless you can pull proof out of your [edited]right now cause that's a totally real thing that can happen."

Screw off. 

Hey, and we love people like you that simply pull stats out of their behinds because it suits their argument.

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Just now, BlailBlerg said:

What happened to the BB limit we really needed

No soft limit imposed so far.  Though if you listen to some people, it's the DD overpopulation that was the problem, and that they're still seeing too many per match.

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3 minutes ago, Gasboy said:

Hey, and we love people like you that simply pull stats out of their behinds because it suits their argument.

Oh, I used a stat? Please show me where. 

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5 minutes ago, BlailBlerg said:

What happened to the BB limit we really needed

Wait, what's wrong with games like this?

shot-18.11.16_00.35.47-0296.jpg

 

And this

shot-18.11.06_01.54.57-0974.jpg

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2 minutes ago, mustangman6579 said:

Oh, I used a stat? Please show me where. 

You said you see 5+DD games ALL the time.  Which you obviously don't.

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Just now, Gasboy said:

You said you see 5+DD games ALL the time.  Which you obviously don't.

Yea well sorry for slightly exaggerating my words to emphasize my point. 

But we all know it doesn't really happen every game. But it has been a lot lately. 

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Here's a challenge for those that say they see 5 dd matches a lot.  Take a screen shot of the next ten games you play (or whatever number of games you want).  You aren't going to see a 5 per side DD match other than the rare oddity. 

Just now, Gasboy said:

I think that is the one thing people don't know or understand.  Many of the rules matchmaker follows are soft rules.  They can be broken in the interest of getting people into a game as quickly as possible.  Hard rules are stuff like, the +1/+2 tier matchmaking.  Ship class limits are soft limits, and will be broken.  Sometimes quite often, if certain ships are rare, for example 1 CV player sitting in a queue.

Yep, soft caps.  This soft DD cap only works because the normal DD population doesn't support 5 DD per side, and it never did.  MM had to be weighted to make DD heavy games because DDs were (and still are) the least played of the surface ships.  In other words, you are for more likely to see five cruisers and BBs long before you see five DDs.  And yet five DD games were fairly common.  MM being weighted to make those matches is the only explanation.  The new soft cap just removed the DD heavy bias. 

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1 minute ago, Slimeball91 said:

Here's a challenge for those that say they see 5 dd matches a lot.  Take a screen shot of the next ten games you play (or whatever number of games you want).  You aren't going to see a 5 per side DD match other than the rare oddity. 

Yep, soft caps.  This soft DD cap only works because the normal DD population doesn't support 5 DD per side, and it never did.  MM had to be weighted to make DD heavy games because DDs were (and still are) the least played of the surface ships.  In other words, you are for more likely to see five cruisers and BBs long before you see five DDs.  And yet five DD games were fairly common.  MM being weighted to make those matches is the only explanation.  The new soft cap just removed the DD heavy bias. 

Well, I suggested 1000 games, because the larger number eliminates the imbalances of streaks.  People tend to remember things like, "This is the 8th game in a row that I've been in a game with 5 DDs a side", and forget things like "Wow, the DD population has been really low the past 200 games."

But yeah, that there is the reason why people call for limits to certain ships, confirmation bias.

WG is the only one here who has all the numbers to be able to make any sort of judgement.

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Are we back to complaining about something that happens maybe 5 out of 100 games and acting like it happens in 95 out of 100?

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