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KageUta

Unrightful team damage penalty

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So, I've been playing for a good bit and never had ANY problems of accidentally hitting my own team or anything. I decided I wanted to play through Steam, so I had to start from day one, which means rookies. WELL, what I've learned is that there is severe penalties for team damage because people don't know how to not drive into their own team mates torpedoes being aimed at an enemy. I'm being punished for torps I shot no where near a team mate, that they simply drove into. (sailed yeah yeah) ANYWAY. this shouldn't be happening. There needs to be some algorithm for figuring out that I was not AIMING at a FREAKING TEAM MATE!

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I had trouble getting past the first sentence...."So, I've been playing for a good bit"

38 battles....:Smile_hiding:

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It is not the other friendly players job to watch for your ordnance. You fire it you own it.

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12 minutes ago, KageUta said:

So, I've been playing for a good bit and never had ANY problems of accidentally hitting my own team or anything. I decided I wanted to play through Steam, so I had to start from day one, which means rookies. WELL, what I've learned is that there is severe penalties for team damage because people don't know how to not drive into their own team mates torpedoes being aimed at an enemy. I'm being punished for torps I shot no where near a team mate, that they simply drove into. (sailed yeah yeah) ANYWAY. this shouldn't be happening. There needs to be some algorithm for figuring out that I was not AIMING at a FREAKING TEAM MATE!

A good chunk, approaching half, of the team damage in this game is the fault of the person hit.

But that's "too difficult" to code into the system, and they're dead-set on having team damage, so they've sold the playerbase on this simple-minded platitude "if you fire it you own it", and too many players have gobbled that right up and internalized it.

 

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you want to know true fail? yesterday I tried to TK my RL bro and missed at 9k.....play as hard as you can, FF happens....keep on keepin on

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Just now, KilljoyCutter said:

A good chunk, approaching half, of the team damage in this game is the fault of the person hit.

But that's "too difficult" to code into the system, and they're dead-set on having team damage, so they've sold the playerbase on this simple-minded platitude "if you fire it you own it", and too many players have gobbled that right up and internalized it.

 

I disagree, 99% of the team damage I see is because someone got greedy and fired a shot they shouldn't have. It is never the job of other friendly players to watch for friendly shots.

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1 minute ago, BrushWolf said:

I disagree, 99% of the team damage I see is because someone got greedy and fired a shot they shouldn't have. It is never the job of other friendly players to watch for friendly shots.

Prime example of players who are to blame for being hit -- idiots trying to ram and driving under incoming fire they know is happening because they can see the target getting hit.  100& the fault of the person hit, stop wasting ships ramming nearly-dead targets.

Prime example of players who are to blame for being hit -- idiots who snuggle up in another ship's smoke and slide in there directly between the smoker and targets.  Stay at least 1km away from friendlies at all times, morons.

Prime example of players who are to blame for being hit -- trolls and griefers who know the shots are there and deliberately do everything it takes to make sure they get hit. 

 

 

 

 

 

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2 minutes ago, KilljoyCutter said:

1) Prime example of players who are to blame for being hit -- idiots trying to ram and driving under incoming fire they know is happening because they can see the target getting hit.  100& the fault of the person hit, stop wasting ships ramming nearly-dead targets.

2) Prime example of players who are to blame for being hit -- idiots who snuggle up in another ship's smoke and slide in there directly between the smoker and targets.  Stay at least 1km away from friendlies at all times, morons.

3) Prime example of players who are to blame for being hit -- trolls and griefers who know the shots are there and deliberately do everything it takes to make sure they get hit. 

 

 

 

 

 

1) If they can get into the line of fire they were too close to that target for it to have been a legitimate target.

2) While I hate those people it is your job to watch around yourself by coming out of gun site mode once in awhile.

3) This goes back to number 1, if they are able to "grief" you by jumping in front of your torpedoes it was a bad shot.

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7 minutes ago, KilljoyCutter said:

A good chunk, approaching half, of the team damage in this game is the fault of the person hit.

But that's "too difficult" to code into the system, and they're dead-set on having team damage, so they've sold the playerbase on this simple-minded platitude "if you fire it you own it", and too many players have gobbled that right up and internalized it.

 

Sorry, but you've got it completely wrong.  If you are firing into a general melee of ships, it's on you if your shots hit a friendly.  None of the skills that allow us to know of the Red teams incoming fire works for incoming friendly fire.

Most people are not expecting to have torpedoes come from behind them, when all they can see behind them are friendlies.

The fastest DDs are generally 40 knots: 20 meters per second.

30 knots: 15 meters per second.

The average torp is 60 knots: 30 meters per second.

Shells from most guns: over 700 meters per second.

It is really, really hard to intentionally move into the path of incoming shells, to do so you'd have to practically be beside the enemy ship.  Thus, you're firing into an area where friendly and enemy ships are in close quarters, it's your fault if you do damage to friendlies.

It's a little easier to move into the path of friendly torps, however, it's still difficult to do if you are far away.  Thus, once more, you have friendly and enemy ships in relatively close quarters, again making it the fault of the firing vessel.

If you're in close quarters combat with the Red team, you're probably dodging enemy torps, and enemy gunfire.  You're probably focusing on the immediate concerns, and paying less attention to less pressing issues.  It's really easy to miss incoming fire from friendly ships when you are focusing on not dying to Red ships.  It is really ignorant to claim that "a good chunk, approaching half" of team damage is the fault of the ship hit.  But I am sure you have all the recorded game play and stats to prove it, right?  Let's see your proof then...

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8 minutes ago, Gasboy said:

Sorry, but you've got it completely wrong.  If you are firing into a general melee of ships, it's on you if your shots hit a friendly.  None of the skills that allow us to know of the Red teams incoming fire works for incoming friendly fire.

Most people are not expecting to have torpedoes come from behind them, when all they can see behind them are friendlies.

The fastest DDs are generally 40 knots: 20 meters per second.

30 knots: 15 meters per second.

The average torp is 60 knots: 30 meters per second.

Shells from most guns: over 700 meters per second.

It is really, really hard to intentionally move into the path of incoming shells, to do so you'd have to practically be beside the enemy ship.  Thus, you're firing into an area where friendly and enemy ships are in close quarters, it's your fault if you do damage to friendlies.

It's a little easier to move into the path of friendly torps, however, it's still difficult to do if you are far away.  Thus, once more, you have friendly and enemy ships in relatively close quarters, again making it the fault of the firing vessel.

If you're in close quarters combat with the Red team, you're probably dodging enemy torps, and enemy gunfire.  You're probably focusing on the immediate concerns, and paying less attention to less pressing issues.  It's really easy to miss incoming fire from friendly ships when you are focusing on not dying to Red ships.  It is really ignorant to claim that "a good chunk, approaching half" of team damage is the fault of the ship hit.  But I am sure you have all the recorded game play and stats to prove it, right?  Let's see your proof then...

 

I've seen everything possible in terms of idiots deliberately or negligently getting themselves hit. 

This isn't about making excused for torpedoes fired from behind, this is thing like green ships who would have no chance to be hit if they kept going where they were going, or took countless possible routes, taking the ONE route that takes them DIRECTLY and DELIBERATELY into the travel of friendly shots -- people who had to do NOTHING to avoid getting hit, or do ANYTHING other than the one thing they did.

 

Edited by KilljoyCutter
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5 minutes ago, BrushWolf said:

1) If they can get into the line of fire they were too close to that target for it to have been a legitimate target.

If they were close enough to ram a red ship taking green fire, they were too damn close, and to blame for getting hit. 

But at this point I've stopped trying to save those idiots from the bot that's about to torpedo or ram them, and just hold fire and let them die to their own foolishness.

 

 

 

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Just now, KilljoyCutter said:

 

I've seen everything possible in terms of idiots deliberately or negligently getting themselves hit. 

This isn't about making excused for torpedoes fired from behind, this is thing like green ships who would have no chance to be hit if they kept going where they were going, or took countless possible routes, taking the ONE route that takes them DIRECTLY and DELIBERATELY into the travel of friendly shots.

 

And I've asked you to prove this.  You can claim it all you want, but unless you have a burden of proof, you're simply pulling numbers from your behind.

I know that there are some people who will be jerks and intentionally get hit.  Which is all the more reason to not fire torps from behind your teammates, isn't it?  And when I say "from behind", I mean firing torps when it is possible and likely that a friendly could turn into their path.  It's really easy: do you want to risk being pink for a few games, or maybe banned for an hour or whatever, just to get a kill?  If you think it is, by all means, fire away however you like.  Just don't complain about being pink.  If you can't accept that, stop firing in situations where friendlies can get hit.

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Just now, Gasboy said:

And I've asked you to prove this.  You can claim it all you want, but unless you have a burden of proof, you're simply pulling numbers from your behind.

I know that there are some people who will be jerks and intentionally get hit.  Which is all the more reason to not fire torps from behind your teammates, isn't it?  And when I say "from behind", I mean firing torps when it is possible and likely that a friendly could turn into their path.  It's really easy: do you want to risk being pink for a few games, or maybe banned for an hour or whatever, just to get a kill?  If you think it is, by all means, fire away however you like.  Just don't complain about being pink.  If you can't accept that, stop firing in situations where friendlies can get hit.

One more time -- I am not talking about firing torps from behind teammates. 

 

 

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Just now, KilljoyCutter said:

One more time -- I am not talking about firing torps from behind teammates. 

And when I say "from behind", I mean firing torps when it is possible and likely that a friendly could turn into their path.

Try reading everything I wrote first...

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Overall I agree with the rule that if you shot you own it.  

But in some cases this is a legit problem.  It torps have travelled over a minute or over 10km (just examples) then some of ownership is on the potato that has no awareness of his surroundings.  

Another example is ships driving in front of guns.  I've seen (cruisers mainly) ships try and squeeze into a tiny gap and completely block a teammates guns that is clearly looking down range and take fire from .01km instead of driving around the back of the friendly ship.  This is at least 50/50 on ownership.

 

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47 minutes ago, KageUta said:

because people don't know how to not drive into their own team mates torpedoes being aimed at an enemy. 

Your torps, your fault. 

48 minutes ago, KageUta said:

 I'm being punished for torps I shot no where near a team mate, that they simply drove into.

Since they hit your ally, they clearly are near your teammates. 

 

Dont drop your torps from behind allied ships. We already need to worry about the enemy in front of us, we dont need a ally ship launching torps from behind. Get closer and you dont need to worry abut hitting a ally, or dont launch your torps. its very simple.  

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You shot them so it's your fault.  People do stupid things, and if you always assume they'll do the worst you'll never accidently torp them.

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3 minutes ago, Madwolf05 said:

You shot them so it's your fault.  People do stupid things, and if you always assume they'll do the worst you'll never accidently torp them.

It's sad but true that you have to assume any green ship driven by someone you don't personally know is being driven by an idiot or a jackwagon.

 

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58 minutes ago, KageUta said:

So, I've been playing for a good bit and never had ANY problems of accidentally hitting my own team or anything. I decided I wanted to play through Steam, so I had to start from day one, which means rookies. WELL, what I've learned is that there is severe penalties for team damage because people don't know how to not drive into their own team mates torpedoes being aimed at an enemy. I'm being punished for torps I shot no where near a team mate, that they simply drove into. (sailed yeah yeah) ANYWAY. this shouldn't be happening. There needs to be some algorithm for figuring out that I was not AIMING at a FREAKING TEAM MATE!

Kind of like wearing a condom....you think you did the right thing using it but you just really never know. If it sprung from you then you are responsible for it. Maybe not the best analogy but hey it's what I got.

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43 minutes ago, BrushWolf said:

It is not the other friendly players job to watch for your ordnance. You fire it you own it.

Has anyone done a study of all the pink players to see what percentage was due to Torps?  I mean other than torps you must have ACTUALLY intended to hit your team.

That said, there are many times you just have to pull your shot because you see a POTENTIAL conflict with a friendly.   However if you are the closest to the enemy, like a DD should be, other than another DD, there should not be any traffic to worry about.

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