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Thanos_Snap_

Stalingrad, Azuma, Steel, and the Growing Divide Between the Playerbase

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I have not played a single game of clan battles and once the PEF directives are done, I’ll be slightly shy of 18k steel. The coupon and actually trying in ranked this next season should get me an Azuma or Stalingrad.

Steel is there and you have three options as a non-CB player..

1) Wait for the dribbles given to everyone.

2) Fight for it in Ranked seasons.

3) Buy access to additional streams of steel (when available).

So it’s there... but yes, the elitism is crap and after reading a post from someone saying something like s#!tters will bring the stats down, I was offended as well.

But the three avenues to get steel are there and i expect to have the Azuma after next ranked and its release.

good luck!

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yeah I agree with your points. I am hopeful that steel will become more common this year. I like the stuff they have offered this month. I was upset when they put the french BB up for steel because I was looking forward to her. And I am also excited about the Azuma and some people have said Witchita could also be a steel ship which would really make me mad since I have an attachment to that ship. 

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6 minutes ago, Lonewolfpj said:

yeah I agree with your points. I am hopeful that steel will become more common this year. I like the stuff they have offered this month. I was upset when they put the french BB up for steel because I was looking forward to her. And I am also excited about the Azuma and some people have said Witchita could also be a steel ship which would really make me mad since I have an attachment to that ship. 

If the reason for giving away steel was to entice more players into clan battles, it would make little sense for them to give out more.

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My clan isn't one of those competitive ones and the only way to get steel is to grind it out over time. Helps that I did place a steel port. Every little bit helps. The steel events that WG laid out helped me get the Stalingrad. whether this is going to be a yearly thing or not..well there a good reasons to repeat it. Good reasons not to repeat it. 

15 minutes ago, SmokeHenge said:

teel is there and you have three options as a non-CB player..

1) Wait for the dribbles given to everyone.

2) Fight for it in Ranked seasons.

3) Buy access to additional streams of steel (when available).

You forgot #4. Get a Super container drop of steel.

 

So if you want it, you'll have to go and get it.

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14 minutes ago, SmokeHenge said:

I have not played a single game of clan battles and once the PEF directives are done, I’ll be slightly shy of 18k steel. The coupon and actually trying in ranked this next season should get me an Azuma or Stalingrad.

Steel is there and you have three options as a non-CB player..

1) Wait for the dribbles given to everyone.

2) Fight for it in Ranked seasons.

3) Buy access to additional streams of steel (when available).

So it’s there... but yes, the elitism is crap and after reading a post from someone saying something like s#!tters will bring the stats down, I was offended as well.

But the three avenues to get steel are there and i expect to have the Azuma after next ranked and its release.

good luck!

I'm curious how you are getting 18K. Did you purchase the campaign?

The way I read things the best I'd be able to do without buying the PEF and the steel campaign was 4019.

I figured the best I could hope for without buying the mission was a Flint in about three years or so.

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3 minutes ago, dechion said:

I'm curious how you are getting 18K. Did you purchase the campaign?

The way I read things the best I'd be able to do without buying the PEF and the steel campaign was 4019.

I figured the best I could hope for without buying the mission was a Flint in about three years or so.

Had 1900 to start, then the $130 PEF bundle mission, the public mission, the directives, and snowflakes (which i forgot to credit in first post).

And a nice clan with a 5% bonus that let me in right before the majority of my holiday grinding which i’ll need to find some way in which to reciprocate.

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OP nailed this.  The speed and tempo of which Steel ships will be released in comparison to who can keep pace...is a trending towards concern.  Especially if these ships will have a slight edge or major edge over their tech tree counterparts.  It just creates another greater gap in the player base.

Upvoted.

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3 minutes ago, SmokeHenge said:

I have not played a single game of clan battles and once the PEF directives are done, I’ll be slightly shy of 18k steel. The coupon and actually trying in ranked this next season should get me an Azuma or Stalingrad.

Steel is there and you have three options as a non-CB player..

1) Wait for the dribbles given to everyone.

2) Fight for it in Ranked seasons.

3) Buy access to additional streams of steel (when available).

So it’s there... but yes, the elitism is crap and after reading a post from someone saying something like s#!tters will bring the stats down, I was offended as well.

But the three avenues to get steel are there and i expect to have the Azuma after next ranked and its release.

good luck!

I am glad the first counterpoint to my post is so nicely written and polite.
I agree that there are options for steel. 2 of them are quite efficient. Clan Battles and Ranked. CB unfortunately relies on having a supportive, active, and willing clan and having the time to participate in the primetime. Something many people have voiced their distaste for. Ranked is doable but many players also hate the ranked experience. It's a lot of effort for not very much of a reward.
Sprints are nicer but WG doesn't seem interested in making Steel available for sprints.

Steel available for purchase is a whole other can of worms, one that I don't particularly approve of.
Because if the "elites" are so concerned about less skilled players getting Stalingrad. This is exactly how they are going to get it. Because there are definitely people not deserving of it with cash to spare. All it takes is a matter of time.
So for people like me who would be willing to "farm" steel by simply playing well in randoms through hard work as well, steel available for purchase just seems like a middle finger to both parties.

As for the dribbles given out to everyone. Through the snowflakes, and all my tier 9s 10s, and premium 8s I came out with a little shy of 3k steel. I appreciate it, but WG has also said that they don't plan to do things like this regularly. Because like purchasing steel, given time, anyone would get Stalingrad.

This is why I believe wholeheartedly that steel needs a system where it is paid out only through hard work and skilled play. 
Who's to say that reaching typhoon in a clan season is any harder than consistently performing well in randoms? I don't mean damage farming either. I mean things like captures, defends, spotting, potential damage tanking, Heroic achievements, and base xp thresholds. All of those actions IMO need a steel payout assigned to them, Obviously a minuscule amount compared to CB and ranked modes, but it still needs to be thee so that players like myself can be confident that they will reach a stalingrad in the next thousand games or so. 

I would rather have steel be available to all who play skillfully, with the option of obtaining large amounts in competitive game modes should I be lucky enough.

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50 minutes ago, Thanos_Snap_ said:

While I do consider myself a decent player, the clan I am in just doesn't participate in Clan Battles enough to make steel a reliable resource for us. And since these people are some of my best online friends, and I love playing with them. I am not willing to just leave and go farm some steel in another more competitive clan.
I was honestly not that interested in Stalingrad or any of the other steel ships already available anyway. I was fine with likely not ever getting one. But then I saw her.

Azuma is probably the only ship in this game, that I took one look at before release and decided that I really wanted it.
Then I looked at her stats. While I still want this ship from a collector's and IJN ship fan's perspective, Her stats are honestly not that deserving of a tier 10 steel ship IMO.

I don't even understand why she is a tier 10 ship in the first place when her stats, ship type, and armor are more in line with Alaska and Kronshtadt.

It is my hope that Wargaming has actually decided to be nice and realize that not everyone has the time and willingness to participate in their competitive modes on their timetable. So they are releasing Azuma for coal as sort of the "Poor man's Stalingrad" to compensate. Which I am quite okay with.

However if Wargaming plans to phase out Stalingrad and put Azuma in its place for the same amount of steel, that honestly seems like kind of a joke. 
I am part of the camp that Stalingrad itself is not an OP ship. Yes, it is a bigger better Moskva, and it is used in competitive Clan Battles as a second Pseudo-battleship. But she is not broken. She is simply currently only in the hands of the experienced. The same people who make Huanghe the best tier 6 cruiser in terms of server stats.
Does Stalingrad power creep existing ships? Yes. But is she broken and OP? Not really.  Especially considering her exclusive status.

Also, if you plan to counter with the whole, "but all the top winning typhoon clans have run Stalingrad recently"

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Those kinds of clans win because of their players, and their teamwork. They had to GET Stalingrad in the first place, meaning they had to top multiple seasons of Clan Battles beforehand. Considering Stalingrad's elite status. They likely run it because it's a badge of honor. It does not determine whether or not they win.


So if Wargaming plans to completely remove Stalingrad due to people whining about OPness and replace her with an uptiered IJN flavored Kronshtadt for the same amount of steel.
Even I, someone who will probably never get that much steel would be quite disappointed in them.

If Azuma was going to be a tier 9 ship then she would be perfect as a 1 mil FXP replacement for Musashi and a counterpart for upcoming Alaska. But since she is a tier 10, I can only conclude that WG intends for her to be used in Clan Battles. 
And while I'm sure she'll find a niche to be relevant in. I just don't see her being that competitive, and REPLACING Stalingrad. 

Now if Azuma is going to run alongside Stalingrad in the arsenal, then I will, yet again, have to live with another "elites only" ship being lorded in our faces by the unicum clans. 
It's a shame that steel is only available in decent amounts for people invested in certain gamemodes, rather than just being a consistent award for skillful play. I and others have proposed good concepts for steel payouts in noncompetitive modes based on skillful play like heroic achievements and certain base XP thresholds. 
Those kinds of things are tracked stats, that Wargaming could use to calculate a fair payment of steel based on skill.

But every time such a thing gets proposed all the unicum Stalingrad owners come out of the woodwork freaking out about how their precious status symbol is going to suddenly be in all the "sh#tters" hands.
Last time I checked, 42%er play4fun players don't top the scoreboard of a win with multiple heroic achievements on a frequent enough basis that would allow them to farm 30k steel by the time of the heat death of the universe. 

The elitism that steel ships have brought to the high skill playerbase is starting to get annoying. I've had people tell me, why should you get the gold ribbon if you don't participate in the game. Such arrogance. Assuming that we all have time to devote to Wargaming's Primetime and Ranked grinds. I'm not suggesting that competitive modes stop being the most efficient way to get steel. Rather that Wargaming at least have an alternate way to grind steel out for skilled play.

Ultimately, I've noticed that the source of the divide between these two groups comes from a difference in interpretation.
Some see steel and steel ships as game mode specific awards like Flint and Black of old. And as a status symbol.
Others, like myself, see it as an alternate currency like coal or FXP, however it's a rare currency given out for skilled play.

These two views seem incompatible. But there really is no reason for them to be. Both can be true.
Steel can be a rare currency farmed through skill play, but it can also be efficiently obtained in large amounts through participation in competitive game modes. 

To those who want it to remain an exclusive game mode only currency. 
Please kindly get off your high horse and realize that there are plenty of players out there deserving of such rewards, but do not have the time or willingness to participate in these game modes.
To Wargaming, if you do not do something to close this gap and make steel consistently available in small amounts for those who deserve it, I foresee things going downhill very quickly.

The gap truly doesn't concern me - and there are a lot of players like me.  Free stuff is fine,but we're fine with our stuff we have.   Short of the Glowworm coming up for steel, fxp, or coal, I'll never spend any of what I do earn.

 

I dunno.  these threads are all " I don't mind, but....", which, to me, means "I really mind a lot"

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You don't need to be elite or good to play in CW or ranked.. Last I checked you can fail your way to rank 1. You can also find a clan running a lower skilled B team that will allow you to get steel  in CW. 

This idea that steel / CW / ranked are some sort of elitist exclusive club is ridiculous, I know lower skilled players who have more steel then unicums. I know unicums that have more steel then other unicums. I know reds who are ranked one almost every season and I know purples who rarely get passed ranked 10. 

Maybe the issue is that players need to stop worrying about their skill and how it limits them, and focusing more on finding the right fit and place for them to get what they want. 


I rarely play more then an hour or two each week, but I do make time for clan wars because I found a tight nit group of players that are really gelled well and are a casual non serious clan that fits my lifestyle perfectly.  I am a super casual player and I found an environment that fits me and my life.. Heck I broke my primary hand 4 weeks ago and I am still getting in CW and getting steel. 

Let that sink in for a second... I broke my main hand ,  I am essentially playing with my 1 arm and still finding a way to succeed. The only excuses and limits that arise in this game are the ones players set for themselves. 

Stop making excuses and start creating solutions, skill or no skill the tools to get anything in the game are provided to you for you to take advantage of.

If you do not? Well that is not the games fault or purple players fault. 

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On the one hand I agree with you OP, these things only help divide the playerbase and promote elitism, pretty bad for most games. On the other hand a wave of "participation prizes" is sure to annoy quite a few people that put alot of effort in earning these ships the hard way.

I like however your solution on rewarding skilled play in general. Maybe getting 4-5 Heroic Achievements in high tiers (to avoid sealclubbing) could reward a small amount of Steel alongside the flags. Nothing too crazy, just rewarding in it's own right for good plays.

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33 minutes ago, SmokeHenge said:

I have not played a single game of clan battles and once the PEF directives are done, I’ll be slightly shy of 18k steel. The coupon and actually trying in ranked this next season should get me an Azuma or Stalingrad.

Steel is there and you have three options as a non-CB player..

1) Wait for the dribbles given to everyone.

2) Fight for it in Ranked seasons.

3) Buy access to additional streams of steel (when available).

So it’s there... but yes, the elitism is crap and after reading a post from someone saying something like s#!tters will bring the stats down, I was offended as well.

But the three avenues to get steel are there and i expect to have the Azuma after next ranked and its release.

good luck!

Yea me too how did u get all that steel ? 

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1 minute ago, warheart1992 said:

On the one hand I agree with you OP, these things only help divide the playerbase and promote elitism, pretty bad for most games. On the other hand a wave of "participation prizes" is sure to annoy quite a few people that put alot of effort in earning these ships the hard way.

I like however your solution on rewarding skilled play in general. Maybe getting 4-5 Heroic Achievements in high tiers (to avoid sealclubbing) could reward a small amount of Steel alongside the flags. Nothing too crazy, just rewarding in it's own right for good plays.

I outlined a whole system awhile back, but the numbers were a little too generous and people nitpicked it to death. Sure the numbers can be whatever WG determines as a fair payout. But the concept of steel rewards for skilled play is a good concept and one that will solve a lot of problems.

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WG is basically punishing players who don't want to be in a clan and play clan battles. My experience with clans is that they offer the world, and the first few days are awesome. After that it's all downhill. For me it's like being solo but having to look at a chat box of people who never interact with me. 

Funny how just when I have 230k coal saved up all the good ships can only be bought for steel. 

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13 minutes ago, SmokeHenge said:

Had 1900 to start, then the $130 PEF bundle mission, the public mission, the directives, and snowflakes (which i forgot to credit in first post).

And a nice clan with a 5% bonus that let me in right before the majority of my holiday grinding which i’ll need to find some way in which to reciprocate.

Wow good job

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WG simply made Stalingrad totally OP, and with their silly none-nerf to premium policy, Stalin keeps OP and they decide to let it be.

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1 minute ago, STINKWEED_ said:

WG is basically punishing players who don't want to be in a clan and play clan battles. My experience with clans is that they offer the world, and the first few days are awesome. After that it's all downhill. For me it's like being solo but having to look at a chat box of people who never interact with me. 

Funny how just when I have 230k coal saved up all the good ships can only be bought for steel. 

I love my clan to death. We don't interact through ingame messaging though. It's 100% on Discord. Our community does have competitive subclans, but I have a role as an officer in our casual/social clan and I am unwilling to abandon that post, as I love helping new members learn the game. I would love it if I could grind out steel in randoms, based solely on my skill,  because I simply cannot play clan battles that often. I am not making up excuses as some people would claim, It's just unfortunate circumstances. Something I am sure I am not alone in.

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7 minutes ago, FlakKnight said:

Azuma will be coal, no need to worry.

Better be or this super, super wallet whale is done. Shima, Atago and Zao are my top three played. the concept of having to deal with discord schmucks after what I have spent to not have access to this ship...…...

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