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Thanos_Snap_

I think I've figured out one of the major problems with players in this game

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Because of the snowflake event I just spent the last week or so playing co-op nonstop. I probably had about 80 ships to go through. And I noticed a pattern. I thought that "hmm okay It's co-op right? It will probably be easy to do well and top the scoreboard and get actually decent payouts on my premiums".

I was wrong.
Apparently using normal random battles tactics in co-op has you doing hardly any decent damage or contributing in any way.
So after about a dozen battles, I realized what everyone else was doing around me to succeed, things like

Full speed charges into caps.
All DDs play gunboat with no regard for stealth or good matchups.
Complete disregard for teammates' positioning.
Ships charging in not realizing that I'm trying to set up a torp ambush. 
Showing as much of your broadside as possible to maximize damage. 

Now this is understandable since in co-op bots always charge in predictably and follow predictable patterns. 

I have a theory that these traits being successful in co-op has trickled into the mentality of a significant portion of the playerbase in randoms.
basically, they learned bad habits in co-op and never unlearned them. 

If you take this, and couple it with the fact that a significant portion of players live in ignorance of their own incompetence.
Those who have never once realized that they actually have stats, or that there is a wealth of information on youtube, or even a forum for this game.

It's sort of been a revelation for me, to peer into the inner workings of the minds of these kinds of players. And realize this is exactly why so many of the players encountered in this game are not reliable teammates. 

I don't really have anywhere specific I am going with this, just a thought I felt like sharing.


Disclaimer
Since I know there are some petty people out there who would point this out. I realize that I don't have decent stats myself. 
I've been working hard for a long time to pull myself out of the valley of ignorance that most new players find themselves in.
I have quite respectable recent stats, and my progress graphs all show consistent, albeit slow, improvement.
At least I am aware that I am still learning, and know where to seek knowledge and actually have the willingness to improve myself.
This post is more geared to those players that don't posses such self awareness.

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You don't need to be so yolo to be productive in Coop.  Just go where you'll have good lines of fire on the bots.  Stay outside torp range and just gun them down, unless perhaps you're in a stealthy torp boat DD.  The problem I see is too many players just charge into torp range of the enemy and end up getting torped and fail to do the same to the enemy.  For whatever reason, bots seem to be more dangerous with torps than with guns.  So just stay out of torp range and out gun them.  Of course, if you're in a BB that has torps and you can brawl a bot BB that doesn't have them, knock yourself out.

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That's why they call Co-Op easy mode. it could certainly lull someone into thinking the same tactics might apply to PvP Randon battles if Co-Op is all they ever played.

But I can't imagine the tedium of going through this snowflake event in Random. It would be a minor form of purgatory.

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2 minutes ago, Crucis said:

You don't need to be so yolo to be productive in Coop.  Just go where you'll have good lines of fire on the bots.  Stay outside torp range and just gun them down, unless perhaps you're in a stealthy torp boat DD.  The problem I see is too many players just charge into torp range of the enemy and end up getting torped and fail to do the same to the enemy.  For whatever reason, bots seem to be more dangerous with torps than with guns.  So just stay out of torp range and out gun them.  Of course, if you're in a BB that has torps and you can brawl a bot BB that doesn't have them, knock yourself out.

That's exactly what I did. I didn't mean to imply that the yolo tactics I observed were the ones I used myself. Sorry if that was misleading. 

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Honestly, assuming you still win, using truly suicidal tactics in co-op could speed up the process. For instance, kill everything on your side of the map and ram the last one so you don't have to spend a few minutes waiting for your team to finish the CV off, as it turns out you are too far from the CV to actually get there in time.

Do I normally do this? No way. Sure, I might ram if I end up in a bad spot and ram in my dying breaths, but only the snowflakes on ships I'd rather not take into co-op incentivize me to do this. BBs in co-op are a very, very mixed bag. You need speed to accel in that place as a BB, as otherwise you just can't compete in the damage race unless you can overmatch bows. And I don't mean acceptable speed, but 30+ knot kinda speeds to see consistent results. Co-op in a BB is all about brawling, so being left behind just makes it dull, not to mention ruining any chance for you to get good XP. I just got Musashi, and while I love her, it became quickly apparent that she just was too slow to be as good as Mo in co-op. Sure, I can do well due to overmatch and such, but Mo can get where she needs to be lickety split.

It's not helped by the fact that players are swarming co-op, making it too easy. Full teams of players simply outclass the AI, where as what I'm used to (2-4 players) actually can be challenging, as the green AI often suicide or ram, leaving you at less of an advantage. 

For example, BBs that I find do extremely well are the Kongou sisters, Ashitaka, Hood, Dunkerq, Mo and other similarly zippy ones.

Edited by Shoggoth_pinup

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I don’t think this is a ‘problem’, if anything it’s the sign of a healthy and diverse game.

I don’t play Clan Battles the way I play Ranked.

I don’t play Ranked the way I play Random

I don’t play Random the way I play Co-op.

Understanding the fundamental differences in  meta is a cornerstone of any game. Of course some people won’t understand  the meta, but every party needs a piñata.

Edited by Gavroche_
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Think of it another way, would you rather have those kinds of play4fun players in random. We don't have co-op in WOT so it was pretty common getting 3/4 of your team doing 0 damage during the school holidays and by the time you notice what's going on you will be facing 4 or more tanks shooting at your because your teammates are mostly dead. Afterwards we will have lots of rage in the forums. 

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47 minutes ago, Thanos_Snap_ said:

That's exactly what I did. I didn't mean to imply that the yolo tactics I observed were the ones I used myself. Sorry if that was misleading. 

Don't worry about it.  I was giving very general guidelines for coop success.  Trying to fight them using the same strats as randoms is a waste of time, and sometimes causes losses.  Better to stay sort of together, though spread out in an arc so that you can all engage the bots.

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14 minutes ago, Gavroche_ said:

Understanding the fundamental differences in  meta is a cornerstone of any game. Of course some people won’t understand  the meta, but every party needs a piñata.

An excellent point. To boil it down, the takeaway line I will be using; "Be the party, or be the pinata."

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My Co-op mentality is the same as my random mentality. Do and much damage as possible, it's just in co-op you need to know that the bots are terrible players and the best way to farm them is to charge straight in.

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A fundamental point that some Random players fail to grasp: The "competition" in Co-op is not beating the Reds, it's out-performing your teammates.

 "Winning" is almost a given.  Finishing atop the scoreboard is not. To me, surviving (or not) for five minutes in a point-blank knife fight swarming with torpedoes is fun.  Hiding at the edges or behind islands and playing "peek-and-pewpew" with everyone blindly shooting at the ocean for 15 minutes? Not as much fun, to me.  I'm not sure how this kind of "pancakes versus waffles" debate acquires elitist overtones.

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11 hours ago, Bianchi4Me said:

A fundamental point that some Random players fail to grasp: The "competition" in Co-op is not beating the Reds, it's out-performing your teammates.

 "Winning" is almost a given.  Finishing atop the scoreboard is not. To me, surviving (or not) for five minutes in a point-blank knife fight swarming with torpedoes is fun.  Hiding at the edges or behind islands and playing "peek-and-pewpew" with everyone blindly shooting at the ocean for 15 minutes? Not as much fun, to me.  I'm not sure how this kind of "pancakes versus waffles" debate acquires elitist overtones.

Once I figured out how to actually top the scoreboard in co-op the rest of the snowflake event consisted of horrible monotony as I went through every ship I've ever bought. Co-op is simply not fun to me at all. It's just a shooting gallery. Fighting against players in randoms is much more (I hate to use this phrase) Fun and Engaging. 
Actual players, be they good or bad are unpredictable, and it requires much more tactical decision making than just yolo-charging and having good torpedobeat skills. 
That coupled with the reduced payouts for co-op battles honestly has me wondering how anyone could main in such a game mode. It has it's fun points but it gets boring fast.

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15 hours ago, Cuesta_Rey said:

But I can't imagine the tedium of going through this snowflake event in Random. It would be a minor form of purgatory.

I did really well in the snow flake even playing the tier 7-10 ships in Randoms - I was surprised - I rarely had to play a ships a second time (that is how much I dislike co-op).

OP - few folks learn how to play in co-op imho - most learn in randoms then go to co-ops.

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