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Battlecruiser_Repulse

If the CV rework is considered a failure...

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... will Wargaming quietly phase out the carrier?

I'm not asking this to troll, but as a legitimate inquiry: I feel like carriers add less to WoWs than even arty in WoT; like they are playing a separate, often almost ludicrously overpowered sideshow (two AP Lexingtons virtually ignoring each other in a match; their DBs just fly past each other, racing to plug as many helpless battleships as possible, etc.). Personally, I wouldn't mind carriers if they were "playing fair," but the ability to a) see vast portions of the map on a whim, b) drop just stupidly devastating ordinance that the intended target can do virtually nothing to mitigate, and c) often, in this godly state, serve as the ultimate arbiter of victory and defeat (god-tier carrier? You win. Glue-eating carrier? Might as well AFK). Add to this the fact that the playstyle itself is widely disliked, and it's pretty much a big fail.

Basically, in a nutshell: there is a reason that this ship type is being redesigned.

Now, we have lots of rumblings that the soon-to-be-released rework is considered half-baked - if not an outright catastrophe, at least no major improvement upon the status quo. Some people are screaming that the new CVs are even deadlier than before; others the inverse.

So... that gets us back to the topic: given the low popularity of the type, how it seemingly doesn't jive well with the rest of the current meta, how development of the ships has been on hold for well over a year to see how the rework pans out... if said rework is as poorly received as the current carrier game is, does WG just throw up their hands, issue widespread compensations, and just kill the type? Or do they possibly go even more radical and consider turning them into, like, land-based planes with certain limitations? (This isn't as crazy a suggestion as it might seem, at first, since many carrier players seem perfectly contented to just drive into a corner of the map and 'play airfield').

Edited by Battlecruiser_Kongo
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LOL you think Carriers are going away, you're probably going to have better luck hoping there'd be actual World Peace starting tomorrow :Smile_teethhappy:

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It's already been deemed viable by the majority. I'm pretty sure more people participated in the test than actually played them prior. The rework makes them similar to the rest of the ships in the game now and much more playable by an average player. The skill cap is still there but not latency dependant. And like any ship deadly when played well and horrible if you potato around. I play the rework better than I do currently which I will say probably has something to do with the fact that I main gunboat DDs and am used to the fast game play. 

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Yup.. cuz people on this forum know exactly what WG is going to do.

 

Some of the posts on this subject have caused my eyes to roll so far back in my head I now can see out of my butt.

Edited by JCC45

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Just now, JCC45 said:

Yup.. cuz people on this forum know exactly what WG is going to do.

 

Some of the posts on this subject have cause my eyes to roll so far back in my head I now can see out of my butt.

I don't claim to know anything about what WG is going to do. 

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2 minutes ago, capncrunch21 said:

WG could have simply balanced CV play by removing strafing and manual drops... but chose not to. Oh well.

Couple this with vision from only the selected squadron (or the first squadron of a selected group) and i would have been good with this.

Still wouldnt play them myaelf, but I’d be happier playing against them.

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5 minutes ago, capncrunch21 said:

WG could have simply balanced CV play by removing strafing and manual drops... but chose not to. Oh well.

That still would not have balanced them because it would have left the out sized impact on winning for the team whose CV wins the air battle.

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4 minutes ago, Battlecruiser_Kongo said:

I don't claim to know anything about what WG is going to do. 

I was referring to the post like this one where people ask questions about what WG is going to do.

 

Edited by JCC45

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3 minutes ago, capncrunch21 said:

WG could have simply balanced CV play by removing strafing and manual drops... but chose not to. Oh well.

I don't think this would have been enough.... Perhaps if those mechanics were removed and all carriers were limited to 1/1/1 loadouts?       Perma-spotting and map presence of carriers with 4-6 groups each on map at one time is just too much.   

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I really don't think so, no. 

 

The current RTS style being RTS-lite wasn't even the problem, it's the fact that it's a poorly-designed RTS-lite system, imbalanced and with a terribad UI that you're forced to fight with when learning. Some people get past that and when they do, immediately become Unicum CVs players. Others get quickly intimidated and just ignore the class. 

RTS as a whole is not the most popular genre for gamers anyway so it's only natural that the RTS-lite CV would not be all that popular even if the game play itself was truly polished and engaging. 

WG seems to have tacked on the CVs as an almost last minute design anyway - you can tell by the limitations in the design and mechanics, how most of the AA and abilities work as passives or zones. It feels very clunky almost as if they forgot that their engine couldn't handle aircraft appropriately. At some point they remembered that CVs should be added because WW2 is what made them popular and thus -PREMIUM SHIP MONEY!- was an alluring proposition so... they literally just jammed the CVs into the game.

 

The RTS format makes sense for how CVs would be managed in play to a degree but their current choice to do a massive overhaul that veers from that entirely shows that they'd rather gamble a huge problem in the hopes of saving future premium products to make cash than just remove it outright. Because CVs can be milked for more revenue, they'll never take them out. They're considering even adding MORE to the game that is considered controversial, such as Submarines. It's very clear that on a game that relies on Micro Transactions, they need more and more content to try and sell. CVs and even Subs grant access to more content...

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we can always go back to how it is now.  If it works or not.....

as it is now every game I get with a CV I keep wows stats open to quickly check WR on each CV to see how to play or just fold laundry.

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While I'm not sure what WG has in mind, I'm confident they have contingencies. They'll either make it work or find another direction. 

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My guess is that if the rework goes belly up the playerbase will just write off CVs, and the population will be less than it is now. That will effectively kill CVs, even if WG doesn't officially do it. So yes, if the rework fails CVs will be history.

That said, I don't think the rework will crash and burn. It will go OK, but need changes. The tweaks WG makes over the next year will really determine the ultimate fate of CVs.

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24 minutes ago, JCC45 said:

Yup.. cuz people on this forum know exactly what WG is going to do.

 

Some of the posts on this subject have caused my eyes to roll so far back in my head I now can see out of my butt.

is it clean?

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10 minutes ago, Hanger_18 said:

is it clean?

So so...

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Just played at the PTS.

3 T6 CV 1 BB 1 CL

Everyone playing a CV complain about this mode is [edited] and removes and brain usage and tactics from playing a CV.

WG don't care.

Maybe if enough CV players just sell their ships and exchange the premiums for gold.

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58 minutes ago, HazeGrayUnderway said:

LOL you think Carriers are going away, you're probably going to have better luck hoping there'd be actual World Peace starting tomorrow :Smile_teethhappy:

Even if the "rework" turns out to be meh, I'm sure that hardcore CV drivers will continue to play them. Folks were saying that, Radar, the elimination of OWSF, and DD nerfs were going to make DDs unplayable but that aint happened.

I don't like CVs at all and wouldn't shed any tears (except from joy) if they vanished from WoWS. But I accept the fact that they're here to stay.

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1 hour ago, HazeGrayUnderway said:

LOL you think Carriers are going away, you're probably going to have better luck hoping there'd be actual World Peace starting tomorrow :Smile_teethhappy:

Pretty much this^

Wg has a really hard time admitting they made a mistake, they will never admit they failed to understand CV balance.....and still don't. :Smile_glasses:

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1 hour ago, capncrunch21 said:

WG could have simply balanced CV play by removing strafing and manual drops... but chose not to. Oh well.

Something along those lines, for starters.   Also...

  • Redo AP bombs from scratch, or remove them,
  • Ditch "national flavor" gimmicks such as number and size of squadrons, just normalize these. 
  • Bring back fighter builds.
  • Get rid of premium-carrier sales gimmicks like funny torp spreads, odd squads, off-tier planes, etc.
  • Implement the LOS limitation that they "just happened to just now" figure out in the rework, so that planes don't see through everything.
  • Etc.

They could have saved the old interface, any time in the last 2 years, but they simply didn't want to.

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1 hour ago, AJTP89 said:

My guess is that if the rework goes belly up the playerbase will just write off CVs, and the population will be less than it is now. That will effectively kill CVs, even if WG doesn't officially do it. So yes, if the rework fails CVs will be history.

But what if the problem/failure is the CV is now too easy. The current unicums will leave in disgust but lots of lesser folks may fill the ranks providing multiple CVs per match (Is WG still planning on making them unlimited?) making the play for the non-CV player  miserable overall to downright impossible in weak AA ships (i.e.  Musashi).

 

Edited by Sabot_100

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33 minutes ago, Erebthoron said:

Just played at the PTS.

3 T6 CV 1 BB 1 CL

Everyone playing a CV complain about this mode is [edited] and removes and brain usage and tactics from playing a CV.

WG don't care.

Maybe if enough CV players just sell their ships and exchange the premiums for gold.

In a sense it may come to that to determine the course of CV momentum or not .....the amount of sell off of CV ships that is.  

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