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Let’s Talk About "Waterline: Episode 4"

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The new gameplay for aircraft carriers is coming soon! In this episode, you’ll find answers to some of our players’ most frequently asked questions.

Read it here!

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I gotta be honest, after the three betas, and feeling like I'm being ignored in the forums for all three tests, plus in the feedback that I gave when in game you guys asked me to take 5-10 minutes of my time to fill out a survey over the betas, it makes me feel very upset that I'm left with a feeling that I've been completely ignored. I mean, you clearly heard me (and everyone else) when I asked for you to give me control over the carrier while planes were airborne. you might have heard me when I asked to meet in the middle with having control of the planes or the carrier but while at the carrier I have control over the guns to defend the ship from direct threats. but I can only take so much...

for three years, I've been supporting this game, I've been here since the CBT, playing the game and enjoying my time here, I've even grown to like the game so much, I was willing to dedicate weekends to making mods for the game for others to enjoy. Sure, the carriers of before the rework have their issues, and I did give my two cents on how to maybe fix things. as time went on, I kept trying to help the game because I was passionate about it. even with all the constant hate from the community because I was a carrier captain, with all the nerfs and "put-downs" from WarGaming that seemed to discourage me from sending out my carriers. I dug in my heels and fought, I fought with everything I had because "where there's a will, there's a way." and I'd try to overcome the challenges that came from buffs to AA, nerfs to aircraft, nerfs to airborne torps, new AA cruisers, and even a buff to one carrier to nerf my carrier. but this, this feels like the final straw, you, WarGaming, the ones in charge of World of Warships, actually saying that you had heard our pleas, looked down your noses and grinned while trying to convince us that "no, you can't control the carrier because it's better to watch the pretty flak chew up our planes" is just too much. if the rework is going to be like what I played in on the test server, then I will not play 8.0, I may log in to confirm I don't want gold and I want the ships and camos I bought and had fun with, but after that, no ship of mine will leave port to fight. I joined the game for carriers, I played carriers for 3 years, I didn't think it'd end and I'd be here for hopefully something close to 10 years or more, but with the loss of my carriers, I've lost any reason to play.

for the last time, I will ask, no beg, that with this rework, you either abort it, give us control over the carriers while planes are airborne (even if it's as simple as plotting a course with the minimap and not by pressing M for the full map), or while at the carrier, we have control over those guns used to defend her.

you don't make a battleship choose between steering the ship or firing the weapons. why should a carrier be forced to choose between steering the ship and attacking with her planes (the carrier's weapons)?

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Will the CV's run out of planes or will all the planes in the squadron keep re-spawning after a specified time?  I know in the beta testing they re-spawned but am hoping they have it where there will be a limited amount of planes per squadron.  Thank you for your time. 

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27 minutes ago, Kerry121 said:

Will the CV's run out of planes or will all the planes in the squadron keep re-spawning after a specified time?  I know in the beta testing they re-spawned but am hoping they have it where there will be a limited amount of planes per squadron.  Thank you for your time. 

Planes never run out.  They continue to respawn at a fixed rate until your hanger fills up.  As soon as you launch a squad they start regenerating new planes.  It is impossible to deplane a CV now.

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4 minutes ago, Kyralee said:

Planes never run out.  They continue to respawn at a fixed rate until your hanger fills up.  As soon as you launch a squad they start regenerating new planes.  It is impossible to deplane a CV now.

Thanks for the info, have mixed feelings about this but at the same time it would be like a ship having a limited number of AP or HE rounds.  

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1 hour ago, RazgrizRaptor said:

I gotta be honest, after the three betas, and feeling like I'm being ignored in the forums for all three tests, plus in the feedback that I gave when in game you guys asked me to take 5-10 minutes of my time to fill out a survey over the betas, it makes me feel very upset that I'm left with a feeling that I've been completely ignored. I mean, you clearly heard me (and everyone else) when I asked for you to give me control over the carrier while planes were airborne. you might have heard me when I asked to meet in the middle with having control of the planes or the carrier but while at the carrier I have control over the guns to defend the ship from direct threats. but I can only take so much...

for three years, I've been supporting this game, I've been here since the CBT, playing the game and enjoying my time here, I've even grown to like the game so much, I was willing to dedicate weekends to making mods for the game for others to enjoy. Sure, the carriers of before the rework have their issues, and I did give my two cents on how to maybe fix things. as time went on, I kept trying to help the game because I was passionate about it. even with all the constant hate from the community because I was a carrier captain, with all the nerfs and "put-downs" from WarGaming that seemed to discourage me from sending out my carriers. I dug in my heels and fought, I fought with everything I had because "where there's a will, there's a way." and I'd try to overcome the challenges that came from buffs to AA, nerfs to aircraft, nerfs to airborne torps, new AA cruisers, and even a buff to one carrier to nerf my carrier. but this, this feels like the final straw, you, WarGaming, the ones in charge of World of Warships, actually saying that you had heard our pleas, looked down your noses and grinned while trying to convince us that "no, you can't control the carrier because it's better to watch the pretty flak chew up our planes" is just too much. if the rework is going to be like what I played in on the test server, then I will not play 8.0, I may log in to confirm I don't want gold and I want the ships and camos I bought and had fun with, but after that, no ship of mine will leave port to fight. I joined the game for carriers, I played carriers for 3 years, I didn't think it'd end and I'd be here for hopefully something close to 10 years or more, but with the loss of my carriers, I've lost any reason to play.

for the last time, I will ask, no beg, that with this rework, you either abort it, give us control over the carriers while planes are airborne (even if it's as simple as plotting a course with the minimap and not by pressing M for the full map), or while at the carrier, we have control over those guns used to defend her.

you don't make a battleship choose between steering the ship or firing the weapons. why should a carrier be forced to choose between steering the ship and attacking with her planes (the carrier's weapons)?

"F" key = "Complete Control of Carriers"

=(

 

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if only the F key did that. but sadly, that isn't the case. the only way to gain control of the carrier to surrender any and all offensive capability. v.v;

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I must agree, I am done playing carriers. They were my main ship type. I'm very sad to see this garbage patch coming.

3 years of grinding to get tier 10 CV's down the drain.

I wonder how BB captains would like it if when they fired, they were forced to watch the shells in flight till they hit with no control of the ship untill after the shells landed?

Wargaming I call this a fail.

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The big answer I see...  and it's repeated over--and over--- and over...

We are to be IMMERSED in the squadron level game-play.

I get the message.  You can stop now.

What makes a good captain in the current mode, is the choice to sacrifice damage/kills for the good of the team.

These skillsets are going away.  Evidence has surfaced that planes no longer spot torpedoes.  Multiple squads spotting the enemy, even using empty bombers..  not anymore.

CV op is now a singular roving marauder.  Strategy is completely different.

There will be a painful learning curve.  Some of us will excel, leading to complaints... and more nerfs balances whenever we find a cool trick to take advantage of the mechanics.

For me, I finally ground up to the Shokaku, and will free-XP the Midway before the ball drops.

I also have suspicion that the 'events' will be giving away free carriers..  Woo Hoo!!  T8 British CV from a container drop !!!

Yeah..  2 years grinding for me but the newbs get them handed away.

But the worst feeling I have is that the existing CV operator base will be severely shafted.  Yeah..  they'll give us doubloons good for a game we no longer enjoy.  No thanks!

There's no getting money back here.  This is not the stock market. 

Time to change my sig....

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As someone who doesn't play CVs and doesn't enjoy their old playstyle as much as battleships and cruisers in this game, I agreed with plenty of others that changes needed to be made. However, I, like many others, definitely do not feel this rework is the answer. And even if it were, in its current state based on what I've seen from CC videos on it and comments on the forums and videos and from my clan mates, this rework is nowhere near ready but seems to be getting pushed out only because of the 'year of the cv' issues and to coincide with the console beta tests and future console releases.

While I agree that the current CV playstyle, even with all of the fixes that have been suggested by CV and non-CV mains for years, wouldn't be possible on console releases, but in that case take this rework and use it only on console versions but implement the suggested fixes to the existing format for the PC version. Yes, you'd have two completely different CV versions and it would make future development more difficult (although without any possibility currently suggested of cross platform MM, and based on other games' attempts at it wouldn't be successful anyway) and players probably wouldn't be able to move between CVs on different platforms, but I would expect the two systems to be different enough as it is to require two different development teams and there would probably be very few people trying to go between platforms.

Ignoring possible issues with CV control how that affects their survivability, as it stands with the rework, CVs will become even more powerful in late game provided they survive and don't get rushed by a destroyer or sniped by the enemy CV. Now, as ship AA gets depleted by HE spam, CVs lose planes to friendly CVs and ship AA and provide smaller threats as ships have less chance of defending against them. With the changes to AA, unless the AA system is changed so AA mounts don't get knocked out or destroyed, ships will be facing the exact same attack strength at the end of the battle as it won't be possible to deplane a CV anymore, but their AA suites will be weakened or destroyed giving them even less defense against planes. And the strong shift from an alpha strike focused style to DOT will reduce the defenses surface ships will have even more - a CV could easily cause flooding on an enemy ship, wait for it to be repaired, and then immediately go in with the next part of the same squadron or the next squadron that will already be coming since the last one is empty or shot down and get a permanent flooding which will almost definitely kill the targeted ship.

Although I never clicked with the old CV style when I started the game, I'd been looking forward to the idea of a CV rework for years to possibly revisit the ship type and see what I thought now that I'm not brand new to the game, but these changes make me even less likely to want to try carriers in the future. And based on the reactions of others I've seen over the course of the beta tests and the significant problems it will cause, by the time enough changes have been made to the rework version, at the very least the CV game will be irrevocably damaged and it could significantly impact the game's overall survival.

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You call it a CV rework, But it not, its a game rework center around a single class of ship that for what ever reason you want more people to play. I'm personally believe the CV lay out was fine and that only do I dare say it Skill player did well, Which I feel was just! But as all ways complains are listen to and reason though to the wind and War gaming  said we'll fix it.  Well when the Battleship and Cruiser Driver start complaining about the CV are to over power again  what are you going to do.  I know what I'm going to do STOP PLAYING!

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I agree with you all . I myself have been playing for about 6 months now and just recently got my class X carrier . THIS REWORK SUCKS I want to be able to control my planes and MY SHIP !!!!!!!!!! THE GAME IS STARTING TO LOOK LIKE A CROSS BETWEEN WORLD OF WARSHIP AND WORLD OF WARPLANES !!!!!! I call [edited] on the rework .. had I known this rework was going to be like this 6 months ago I would have stopped playing and never told my friends what a great game it was .. oh well all the money I will lose and time put in to this game will be for nothing …. 

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3 hours ago, Strict_Economy said:

Would anyone here kindly give me a summary of events or blogs that preempted WG to look at the CV structure and make the change(s) they've introduced....

so, this will be a very patchy summary, because I don't believe I got to test things from the very beginning, but I'll try my best.
for the past 3 years, CVs have played like an RTS, they've been riddled with problems ranging from a massively steep learning curve. (in my opinion, there are only 3 tiers of carrier captain. noob, vet, and certified sky cancer. advancing between these classifications is extremely difficult.)

wargaming has never addressed this issue.

carriers in the earlier days were not restricted in any major way. a Midway could fight a Lexington or no carrier at all and attempt to dominate the game. community counter: fleet tactics, ships sail in groups.

some people do not learn this simple tactic and whine. wargaming sees CV captains getting bewildering damage numbers and decide something needs to be done. they buff AA and start trying to nerf CVs. this process continues for the next 2+ years. CVs die off, WG tries to fix this by issuing a CV rework to Midway, changing her loadout multiple times. one such loadout is what I called the "Viking funeral" with 1 fighter, 1 torpedo team, and 3 dive bombers. a common tactic of Midway at this time results in even more destruction (torp to make the target burn its repair, burn target to death with dive bombers.) midway receives a 2/2/2 loadout.

 

at some point, wargaming introduces the "Strafing Run" this is another element that widens the gap between the carrier captains even more. if I, a "vet" captain with 3 years of combat experience and tutorage from Fem videos goes against a noob, I will win 100% of the time because of strafing runs. if I go against a carrier like Fem, I will lose 100% of the time because she can use her strafing runs more effectively than I can. (I know, I fought her a lot before she was hired by WG and never won a single match, I could only put up a desperate fight to slow her down.)

 

community contributors start to hint and then admit they've gotten to test the new system, but can not say or show anything more. lots of hype from the community welcome the news with open arms and eagerly awaits access to the test build.

 

somehow info about the wargaming rework is leaked, "forcing" wargaming to spill the beans and show a new trailer presenting the new carrier playstyle. the hype builds. time goes on and finally, more details are given to us and community contributors are able to show us what its like.

 

even more time passes and we, the average sailors are given a chance to sign up. at least 3 tests are run (probably more, but I only got to join 3 tests),  wargaming begins to collect data and gives us a thread to post our thoughts. from what I saw there, there wasn't much positive, the best posts were insightful, gave suggestions on what needed to improve, and saw everyone asking for control over both the CV and planes at the same time. wargaming refuses. more time passes and by now, the honeymoon time with the tests as worn off and it seems like everyone has nothing nice to say about the update, myself included.

 

there's a very good chance things are either out of order or missing from this timeline since I'm going off of memory, but hopefully, it helps.

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im not looking forward to this rework u think cruises and BBs are passive now you haven't seen passive yet . bet we will see AA box formation in game being formed by those of us that understand what is needed to survive . caps want be capped if we  try we will get smoked . no one will want to be in a place they cant twist and turn to avoid Air strikes. 

Basically one of two thing must happen after the B fest starts AA will need major Buffs as CVs main reason for complaining about AA is no longer valid after all they now have unlimited air craft .

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Speaking of National Flavor:

We have torpedoes that go to different depths, we have dive bombers, and torpedo planes, we have (had) submarines, we have fires and flooding, rockets and paper ships.....BUT

I think the IJN should have access to ONE per game, a SINGLE Kamikaze attack, one per CV, once per game. (yes I repeated myself) Nothing says IJN flavor even more than that. I can't think of a single reason why you can't implement this, considering all the other things we can do. Now before you (WG) say NO, think carefully and tell me WHY NOT? And whining about game balance just will NOT cut it. Seriously.

I leave you with this :  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kamikaze

Thank you for your time.

 

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!!! HULL CONTROL !!! - for goodness sake

The auto pilot is not sophisticated enough:

-I can't change throttle speed.

-Sometimes it stops and goes backwards on its own depending on the turn.

-when it gets near island it won't even follow the way-point it will collision avoid and turn way off course, then it totally screws up your cover.

-WG says " when in close combat, you can choose to maneuver rather than use plane"  so the time when you need your planes the MOST for defense you are not suppose to use them??

 

21 hours ago, Trademark_15 said:

you don't make a battleship choose between steering the ship or firing the weapons. why should a carrier be forced to choose between steering the ship and attacking with her planes (the carrier's weapons)?

Very good point!!

I get it, it's your game and your going to do what you please. I think the lack of  hull control though is broken, becuase it will either put your ship in a bad position, or will put a "dumb" cap on your ability to move your ship around the map.

The rest is new and think will take time for everyone to adjust to something completely different.

Edited by BC124
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This update stinks! Why in WWII the carrier was the NEW Queen of the seas. IT proved itself in many battles in he Pacific starting with Pearl Harbor and ending with Okinawa. Instead of trying to satisfy all those BB owners why don't you improve what you have. Ex. have fighters able to strafe ships which they did many times during the war. However there are a few major privileged  clans that get what they want. It is those clans that always win any clan battles and all extra winnings' can show you many examples. You are traveling down the road that you did with World of Tanks and that is why people left that. Learn from your past and leave WOW alone

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19 hours ago, Kerry121 said:

Thanks for the info, have mixed feelings about this but at the same time it would be like a ship having a limited number of AP or HE rounds.  

Not the same thing. Usually, when your in ranges to use those ap/he rounds the target is also or is close to being in return fire range. CVs are different in that when they attack you or do anything, they usually are not or anywhere close to return fire range unless your in a north Carolina or yamato on a really small map.

In addition, CVs dont give away their position now, or in the future since they don't have to return aircraft. 

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the first question... Octavian did NOT sound convincing when denying the CV rework was NOT for consoles... he didn't sweat, but you could see him doing everything but.... then he went on that hey, if the ones doing console games likes the changes, then maybe....

He said it did not make good business sense to do it for consoles then explained that maybe it will end up there if they like the system....

about as much of an admission as we are going to get.

Edited by kiwi1960
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1 hour ago, Crokodone said:

Not the same thing. Usually, when your in ranges to use those ap/he rounds the target is also or is close to being in return fire range. CVs are different in that when they attack you or do anything, they usually are not or anywhere close to return fire range unless your in a north Carolina or yamato on a really small map.

In addition, CVs dont give away their position now, or in the future since they don't have to return aircraft. 

Oh they do, planes needing to be reloaded fly (without you as you are taking another squad out) back to the ship (unless all shot down) so they can still be followed.

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Look like WG is merging World of Warplanes and World of Warships. I feel sick of those super overpower cancerous Carriers. Sorry I have to give up on this game and find other games to play. Sadly I have spent $400 on this game during Christmas and New Year sales

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2 hours ago, kiwi1960 said:

Oh they do, planes needing to be reloaded fly (without you as you are taking another squad out) back to the ship (unless all shot down) so they can still be followed.

Do the planes auto-returning to the ship get affected by any AA they fly thru?

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22 minutes ago, Sabot_100 said:

Do the planes auto-returning to the ship get affected by any AA they fly thru?

I assume so... at least, this may have been one of the complaints I saw from a CC on youtube.

At least, the CC's are starting to be more honest and open about the game than WoWs themselves is, well, at least one or two at any rate.

So much for the claim in the very first video when someone asked this question about planes being followed home.... "I don't know, maybe we can have them fly so high that they cannot be seen..."
 

Nothing came of that, planes can still be followed home and, I assume, shot down.

WoWs really had/have/has no idea where this abomination is going.... and they will suffer for it later.

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52 minutes ago, hthepatriot said:

Look like WG is merging World of Warplanes and World of Warships. I feel sick of those super overpower cancerous Carriers. Sorry I have to give up on this game and find other games to play. Sadly I have spent $400 on this game during Christmas and New Year sales

I have started playing fallout 4 again, and KSP, but I'll stick around so at the very least, I can laugh and laugh and laugh on these forums after they tried their best to silence me....

But my wife and I have agreed (we both play WoWs) they are not going to get another cent off us till we know where we stand with this so called CV rework.... in fact, its a game rework... those owning the Musashi will be highly annoyed to find they have no AA to speak of while the CV are all OP now... and THAT is the real reason they are removing it from the game...

What about regular researchable ships that have crap AA? The new CV commanders will be allowed to re-spec their captains to the new perks (for free)... not no other captain is... if we want to dump a spotter plane and get a fighter or whatever then we have to pay....

Worse... what good is an AA consumable if the CV can do three attacks on your ship .... or worse, with an infinite supply of planes.... those 3 or 4 AA consumables are going to be pathetic.... especiall with the long cool down periods... so I can see WoWs reducing or removing the cool down period for those... THEN people will still (quite rightly) complain that 3 or 4 just wont cut it with the new game.

Of course.... for about 6 months after 0.8.0 goes live, there will be rebalancing... PROVIDED most stick around that long to suffer the injustices that are going to happen.

That will be when WoWs wakes up to the biggest mistake they have made so far... they forced this rework on us and have used up ANY and ALL goodwill they may have earned from us.

Read the forums.... read the comments on YOUtube... this "rework" is NOT wanted. They are turning this into an arcade game where kids/idiots just fly around and around attacking whatever they see.... now... I'm 58.... I'd get bored of game play like that really fast... but a kid that likes that.... must be an idiot. I cannot see the new CV's being popular with the sane intelligent adult Captains among us.

They tried to silence us... but we just started posting to YOUtube and on their FaceBook / Twitter accounts.

Do they hold us gamers in contempt? When 7.12 was released, they posted a comment on FaceBook saying.... If you have a problem loading WoWs now because of the update, LIKE this post.....

Seriously.... I told them it was beneath contempt to farm LIKES from people misfortune, that these people only wanted a working game, not to be treated with contempt...

I think they deleted the post.... I cannot find it anymore.

Is this why we are getting the rework.... they treat us all with contempt?

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