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survivingscout

Roma Balance Discussion

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Does anyone else feel that the Roma is lacking? 

I have most of (if not all) the available t8 battleships at the moment. (Massachusetts, Roma, Kii, Alabama, Tirpitz, and Gascogne)

The Roma in particular feels extremely inaccurate. The shotgun feeling is even worse than the germans, with no hydro or worthwhile secondaries to account for. The Roma has a great 227m maximum dispersion with the aiming systems mod 1 installed, and yet, every shot is like rolling the dice.

On top of this, Roma's shells have a very high chance to overpen, even on broadside battleships like Amagis. 

Either one of these issues would keep Roma from being overpowered as a gun platform, but together, they make the ship unpleasant to play due to the high inconsistency of the guns. Every other t8 battleship feels more accurate, even the Tirpitz with its German dispersion. 

Can we please try to improve the Roma's main battery accuracy to make it competitive with other t8 premium battleships? Leaving the high chance to overpen as a national flavor would be a fair compromise in my opinion.

Link to a few of many posts on Reddit on this topic:

 

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Yes, she overpens. However, she also cits every Bb except for the KM, and she punishes heavy cruisers. She's kinda like an IJN DD, feast or famine.

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Roma....is VERY frustrating beyond belief for me. The guns are great at penetrating...but they are TOO GREAT. More or less when other ships see me, they do not respect my guns. They know I will more than likely over penetrate them and they can afford to show broadside to me. Cruisers ignore me flat out, why...because I cannot hurt them. I flat out overpenn basically everything...hell broadside republics and yammy's are overpenned. 

Roma's gimmick is apparently stealth? Why do we need a stealthy tier 8 battleship at all? The secondaries are trash, the AA is trash...the armor scheme is just borked...

If I were to re-balance Roma....I'd remove the HE and replace it with the cruiser/destroyer AP shells. That would more or less make people respect the Roma when they see her and not laugh her off. I'd also buff the secondary range on the triple 152's...I'd make them AP slingers. The 90's would fire HE shells period.

I don't want a straight brawler, but I want a ship that can be a swiss army knife...and attractive to play. 

Not *shoot* OVERPENN EVERY SHOT ON A WARSPITE 

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I’d just be happy if they swapped out her HE for AP shells more suited to damaging lightly armored targets.

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If Roma's guns were more accurate, she'd be an absolute monster.  Those are very high penetration AP shells, more than the high performance French 380mm AP, more than the heavy AP shells from the Tier VIII USN BBs.

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Bouncing yammy shells fro .1 mm to 12 mm is so fun...

Maybe, just maybe, those guns are the balancing factor?

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Roma is fine, its a great ships overall. If you just buff the guns yuo would make this ships OP. Roma is already tanky, and had great concealment. Guns are meh, dispersion is bad but when they do hit is pretty hard. 

 

Get closer, Roma has great concealment, armor and mobility. Get closer where dispersion less of a issue. Most of the Romas that i see sit back shooting out of Long/Max range. They are not using the ship strenghts and are making ger weakness even worse. 

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Roma has high velocity guns with low shell weight. This gives it a very short shell flight time and high penetration at the cost of accuracy.

If you want more accurate guns but much slower shells, play the American BB line.

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The only thing the Roma needs is better dispersion and maybe better secondaries.  

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I'll trade concealment for accuracy and better secondaries in an instant. 

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10 minutes ago, dEsTurbed1 said:

Bouncing yammy shells fro .1 mm to 12 mm is so fun...

Maybe, just maybe, those guns are the balancing factor?

They indeed are.  You watch the earlier WiP videos from guys like Flamu, the guns were a lot more accurate and the ship was considered exceedingly strong.

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@survivingscout Dude, you need to edit those screen grabs, because they contain banned obscenities, which is a violation of forum rules.

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51 minutes ago, awiggin said:

I'm somewhat confused by people claiming the Roma is weak...

image.thumb.png.5d5f729728535efefbe303db98858bc7.png

awiggin, honestly, I don't think that those stats say much about the relative quality of the various tier 8 (and particularly t8 premium) battleships.  BBs which have been in the game longer have probably been played by many more less experienced, less talented players than newer ships.  I mean, just look at the Tirpitz and Tirp B.  Does anyone really think that it's the Tirp is an inferior tier 8 BB like the stats would seem to indicate?  I don't think so.  I think that it's just a case of the quality of people playing the Tirp rather than the quality of the ship itself.

I don't know what other stats WG might have that could give a truer picture of these BBs.  Personally, I own all of these BBs (not counting the two B versions or the Bama ST).  And I don't seem able to click with the Roma.  I'm pretty adaptable to different ships, and maybe I just haven't found the right way to productively play the Roma yet.  The Roma has the disadvantage that it's the only tier 8 Italian BB at the moment, whereas all the other prem BBs have tech tree counterparts.  And those that have tech tree counterparts tend to play fairly similarly to them, with the possible exception of the Vanguard, which is a little more like the Warspite and Hood than the Monarch.  And while the Mass is the only USN BB secondary brawler, it's still very similar to the Bama and NC.  And if you've played the Bama and NC, and played German BBs, like the Bismarck and Tirpitz, it's not that difficult to kind of merge your Bama/NC skills with your Biz/Tirp skills to play the Mass effectively.  But as yet, there's really no other Italian BBs where you can learn how to play BBs, Italian style, which makes learning her individual play style more difficult to learn.

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26 minutes ago, Crucis said:

awiggin, honestly, I don't think that those stats say much about the relative quality of the various tier 8 (and particularly t8 premium) battleships.  BBs which have been in the game longer have probably been played by many more less experienced, less talented players than newer ships.  I mean, just look at the Tirpitz and Tirp B.  Does anyone really think that it's the Tirp is an inferior tier 8 BB like the stats would seem to indicate?  I don't think so.  I think that it's just a case of the quality of people playing the Tirp rather than the quality of the ship itself.

I don't know what other stats WG might have that could give a truer picture of these BBs.  Personally, I own all of these BBs (not counting the two B versions or the Bama ST).  And I don't seem able to click with the Roma.  I'm pretty adaptable to different ships, and maybe I just haven't found the right way to productively play the Roma yet.  The Roma has the disadvantage that it's the only tier 8 Italian BB at the moment, whereas all the other prem BBs have tech tree counterparts.  And those that have tech tree counterparts tend to play fairly similarly to them, with the possible exception of the Vanguard, which is a little more like the Warspite and Hood than the Monarch.  And while the Mass is the only USN BB secondary brawler, it's still very similar to the Bama and NC.  And if you've played the Bama and NC, and played German BBs, like the Bismarck and Tirpitz, it's not that difficult to kind of merge your Bama/NC skills with your Biz/Tirp skills to play the Mass effectively.  But as yet, there's really no other Italian BBs where you can learn how to play BBs, Italian style, which makes learning her individual play style more difficult to learn.

Well, at 174k battles, it certainly seems to have been played enough. But you know very well that some ships fit your playstyle, and some don't.

People hate the Kirov, I love it, and have good games with it. Yes, RNG will occasionally delete you for daring to surf around in a tin can, but it just suits my play. The US  cruiser line I can't make work, yet clearly many people do. Just doesn't work for me. US BB's never really did either , but getting the Mass-B in a crate, it seems so much better than the other US BB's I've played. French BB's have pretty much replaced my German BB's, Alsace is just too much fun. 

Would be great if WG would share more detailed performance data with us, but that seems unlikely at this point.

Won the Roma in a crate, so I guess I'll find out soon enough....:Smile_teethhappy:

Edited by awiggin

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I seem to do Okay in mine. You have to play it more like an IJN Cruiser. Be stealthy even though you're in a BB and don't waste shots, set them up first. Most the time due to MM I seem to automatically get in T10 games with it and I'm able to hold my own. Just keep out between 11.5 and 13km out and ambush everything! 

roma.jpg

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Roma is fine, I won't complain if it gets little bit more accurate guns but that would put this ship in OP territory.

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Statistically, there isn't anything wrong with the Roma.  She is a strong performing ship.  But, I can totally understand how people don't like her... at all.

I personally found the Roma to be best played when I embraced the "minimum range" philosophy.  The very high velocity nature of the shells means she's going to have very flat arcs.  Additionally, because the Roma fires a heavy shell, she doesn't lose velocity and penetration performance very quickly over distance.  So taking that into account, she's more lethal at 15-18km than she is 10km, and is less likely to overpenlololol at max range than she is at a short range.  I mean, I get it, you can target a ship at 5km and the shells just go right through a heavily armored battleship.  Very frustrating.  But, I find I tend to get a lot of damage in at the very early stages of the game where I launch my spotter plane and attempt to hit targets at max range. 

Personally, I would not mind a sigma upgrade with a corresponding reload nerf to give this ship a more "reliable" feel.  She's feast or famine. 

 

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Roma's main plus isn't the penetration, which is great but only 2% better than the USN 16in at T8 (will you ever notice?) but the shell flight time.

Her shells take just 7.22s to 15km vs. 8.9s on the US 16in/45's.

In the extra 1.68s the US shells take to get there, a ship at 25kt moves another 114m - or about 2/3 the length of a Cleveland, and a cruiser at about T8 can, if locked into full helm turn another 10°. 10° can readily be the difference between autobounce and not.

The downside of this velocity is that her arriving shells should be doing about 548m/s before hitting armor (which unless thick slows them little) and with 0.033s fuses will travel about 18m before exploding. In comparison the US shell will travel only 15m. That's not always a problem, a Cleveland is 20m in the beam, but at 10km and closer it does become one.

 

The shell flight times also combine well with the stealth - a Roma firing on decloaking from 11.2km away gives you 5.06s to react - vs. a Massachusetts decloacking at 12.4km you get 7.02s.

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If I recall correctly, the Italian battleships didn't get HE, but AP and SAP. I would be cool with her being SAP shells in place of HE. It would give a nice gimmick in place of the usual stuff

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1 minute ago, Psycodiver said:

If I recall correctly, the Italian battleships didn't get HE, but AP and SAP. I would be cool with her being SAP shells in place of HE. It would give a nice gimmick in place of the usual stuff

I wanna see this happen but it is unlikely that WG will implement whole new type of ammo for battleships..

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20 minutes ago, Ranari said:

Statistically, there isn't anything wrong with the Roma.  She is a strong performing ship.  But, I can totally understand how people don't like her... at all.

I personally found the Roma to be best played when I embraced the "minimum range" philosophy.  The very high velocity nature of the shells means she's going to have very flat arcs.  Additionally, because the Roma fires a heavy shell, she doesn't lose velocity and penetration performance very quickly over distance.  So taking that into account, she's more lethal at 15-18km than she is 10km, and is less likely to overpenlololol at max range than she is at a short range.  I mean, I get it, you can target a ship at 5km and the shells just go right through a heavily armored battleship.  Very frustrating.  But, I find I tend to get a lot of damage in at the very early stages of the game where I launch my spotter plane and attempt to hit targets at max range. 

Personally, I would not mind a sigma upgrade with a corresponding reload nerf to give this ship a more "reliable" feel.  She's feast or famine. 

 

Very much.  When Roma is "On" against a BB, she is excellent.  But when she's off, it's a clear "Swing and a miss."

 

Also, the turret traverse on her is excellent.  30 seconds for 180 degrees.  While:

NC, Monarch 45 seconds

Amagi 41.86

Alabama 40

Vanguard, Richelieu, Massachusetts, Bismarck 36

Etc.

I have EM on Roma and the traverse is great at 26.9 seconds.  I actually liked to brawl other BBs in her and the turret traverse easily tracked whatever weird maneuvers demanded.

Edited by HazeGrayUnderway

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