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legozer

RADAR IS OBSOLETE!

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We've had soooo many discussions and complaints about radar over the last year, but I say: WHO NEEDS IT???

Guess shotting is the new radar! Ships that rely on smoke mechanics to be successful (Kutuzov, Belfast, Cossack, Haida, Perth, USN DDs, Grozovoi) have had to learn to adapt their play to deal with radar. It's been a tough slog, but many of us have gotten adept at evading and/or baiting radar. 

YOUR NEW RADAR EVADING SKILLZ ARE OBSOLETE!

It seems almost everyone has gotten nearly perfect at guess shots into smoke. 

Smoke is becoming an almost useless tool, and the ships that rely on it are slowly becoming unplayable.

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If smoke is letting them blind fire on you, then it's 1 of 3 things:

1: You smoked up in front of someone with direct vision on you before you vanished.

2: You are shooting out of smoke continuously and showing where you are hiding.

3: You smoked up on the edge of a cap, allowing the enemy to guess your range and position.

Any decent player will use these tactics against a smoke DD or cruiser. High tiers is where all the good players reside. Play smart and don't get caught in those 3 scenarios.

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Camping still in smoke in open water and constantly firing your guns is a giant "shoot me I'm here"flag. There are smart players now who knows to utilize their spotting aircraft to make a pinpoint shot at ships in smoke (or even behind islands)

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If I know that a ship is in smoke right in front of me I just play "Battleship" by sending random salvos until I hit something, then I bracket and fire for effect.

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11 minutes ago, AbyssAngkor said:

If smoke is letting them blind fire on you, then it's 1 of 3 things:

1: You smoked up in front of someone with direct vision on you before you vanished.

2: You are shooting out of smoke continuously and showing where you are hiding.

3: You smoked up on the edge of a cap, allowing the enemy to guess your range and position.

Any decent player will use these tactics against a smoke DD or cruiser. High tiers is where all the good players reside. Play smart and don't get caught in those 3 scenarios.

Not camping, not firing, not allowing easy targeting.

Everyone is getting really good at guessing. 

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3 minutes ago, Snargfargle said:

If I know that a ship is in smoke right in front of me I just play "Battleship" by sending random salvos until I hit something, then I bracket and fire for effect.

I do the same. You and I are likely way worse than many at this. The guess shot is an insanely dominating skill. I've been guess shot from 20 Kms after several seconds of moving around in smoke. I am not a tin hat kinda guy, but there are times where I have to believe there's some sort of cheat out there.

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Many YouTube CCs have shown the mini-map tools make shooting out of or staying in smoke and not moving a sure fire way of getting hit (if not by rounds then certainly by the inevitable torpedoes). One method would be not to do either! :Smile_teethhappy:

OP, I do see your point about the ships that rely on smoke, especially ones like RN cruisers who haven't got the best armour. However, the best that can happen is that WG monitor the situation and if needed 'apply minor (not BIG!) changes to tweak the balance.

I play RN Cruisers and am more than willing to suffer a little pain if it leads to well thought out changes - IF it is found they are needed (atm I don't really find any issues with my RN cruisers, but then I am one player and it is the community that matters (not me)). :Smile_honoring:

Edited by _WaveRider_

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Smoke is only useful for breaking LoS, anymore. You can’t be in it at all without hydro. DD guns are now completely situational and torps are 7% hit rate on 2 minute reloads.

thank the gods spotting and spotting damage are so well rewarded...

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14 minutes ago, legozer said:

I do the same. You and I are likely way worse than many at this. The guess shot is an insanely dominating skill. I've been guess shot from 20 Kms after several seconds of moving around in smoke. I am not a tin hat kinda guy, but there are times where I have to believe there's some sort of cheat out there.

I actually had a game where i took out a full health gearing in smoke who was trying to snipe our cv... he was never spotted. Didn't know what I was shooting till i killed him.

Gotta learn when to wiggle and when to go dark... sequential firing WHILE wiggling is ideal. Also good to pull a big U turn and hide not in but behind your own smoke. Dont be stationary and dont be 100% broadside.

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22 minutes ago, Thornir said:

Smoke is only useful for breaking LoS, anymore. You can’t be in it at all without hydro. DD guns are now completely situational and torps are 7% hit rate on 2 minute reloads.

thank the gods spotting and spotting damage are so well rewarded...

Looks over at Haragumo... :Smile_trollface:

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A lot of people make the mistake of smoking up by an island or object of reference. Which makes judging there position quite easy...

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Look, if WG are going to make smoke so prevalent, people are going to adapt. I am OK at smoke shooting, but I miss completely about 70% of the time, and only nuke someone every once in a while. So it's not a major issue.

Also, Radar obsolete? Tell that to the many deceased DDs and RN CLs who tried to smoke within 9.5km of my Missouri.

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2 hours ago, Admiral_Thrawn_1 said:

Looks over at Haragumo... :Smile_trollface:

Even the Hag can’t just light off and sit in smoke. In fact, due to its size, it’s especially vulnerable. Torps and guns both. As I said, they remain situational. 

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Using the last reported position and the X that shows where your shells are going to land on the mini map it is pretty easy to hit a ship in smoke.

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2 minutes ago, AJTP89 said:

Look, if WG are going to make smoke so prevalent, people are going to adapt. I am OK at smoke shooting, but I miss completely about 70% of the time, and only nuke someone every once in a while. So it's not a major issue.

Also, Radar obsolete? Tell that to the many deceased DDs and RN CLs who tried to smoke within 9.5km of my Missouri.

Radar is far from obsolete. Even the proposed 5 second delay before others can share the spotting will be moot as an “improvement “. 

Radar will control objectives as it has since its inception. The range marker In the minimap  that now makes smoke shooting a thing is just an “oh by the way” suppository WG afforded DDs so there would be no question regarding the second class citizen status of DDs.  

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Players are finnaly learning to play against radar, took a couple years they are finnaly learning.

 

Smoke is still great, if you know how to use it, spread your smoke over a larger area (just be careful to not blind your own team) and keep moving inside your smoke. 

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3 hours ago, legozer said:

We've had soooo many discussions and complaints about radar over the last year, but I say: WHO NEEDS IT???

Guess shotting is the new radar! Ships that rely on smoke mechanics to be successful (Kutuzov, Belfast, Cossack, Haida, Perth, USN DDs, Grozovoi) have had to learn to adapt their play to deal with radar. It's been a tough slog, but many of us have gotten adept at evading and/or baiting radar. 

YOUR NEW RADAR EVADING SKILLZ ARE OBSOLETE!

It seems almost everyone has gotten nearly perfect at guess shots into smoke. 

Smoke is becoming an almost useless tool, and the ships that rely on it are slowly becoming unplayable.

I believe you're a little optimistic here with the obsolete declarations. 

Radar is not obsolete. Without radar players would return to their old tactics.

While more players are better at shooting into smoke they are not perfect.

Using smoke as a cloaking device has became much more dangerous. But there are other uses for smoke such as covering your escape when you find yourself in a bad spot.

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4 hours ago, legozer said:

It's been a tough slog, but many of us have gotten adept at evading and/or baiting radar.

Good to hear! And in that case there's no need to remove Radar since it's a non-factor, eh?

Edited by ReddNekk

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Fire off a couple of salvos then move slightly, repeat until you’re out of smoke clouds or out of targets. Cruisers that try to bullet hose while stationary in smoke deserve to be hit with speculative fire. 

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27 minutes ago, ReddNekk said:

Good to hear! And in that case there's no need to remove Radar since it's a non-factor, eh?

I see what you did there. Nice try. 

 

Honestly. It doesn’t need to be removed. But WG won’t make it LoS, because they made ships that cannot survive in the  open (true story), and they won’t disallow the fleet wide sharing of the data, so we just [edited] about it continually to encourage WG to do something more than nothing. 

Edited by Thornir
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4 hours ago, legozer said:

Guess shotting is the new radar! Ships that rely on smoke mechanics to be successful (Kutuzov, Belfast, Cossack, Haida, Perth, USN DDs, Grozovoi) have had to learn to adapt their play to deal with radar. It's been a tough slog, but many of us have gotten adept at evading and/or baiting radar. 

Tell that to the Neptune I killed with the Donskoi. We were trading damage and he was getting the worst of the exchange. So at 10.5 km he decided he was going to smoke up and go pew pew.  Sov radar is 11.7 km. Turned on the radar and blapped him.

I'd state the opposite view. Smoke is losing it's utility. The ways for countering it:

1. Blind shooting into the smoke. If you have RPF or a spotter plane, it's not that difficult to blind fire a ship in smoke.

2. Torpedoes - Rule of thumb: Expect torps inbound in 20 seconds after smoking up.

3. Of course Radar

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The 4 DMs I see in every single CB game disagree with you.

Radar really makes T10 unplayable though, especially for the DDs, they are completely countered unless its a huro that can just dakka from range.

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Feels like people are more accurate at shooting Haida creeping along in her smoke than a ship in a static smoke cloud.

 

Edited by Musouka

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Sitting in smoke is stupid. I will delete you eventually. Smoke was never meant for that, it was always meant for conceal and evade. not conceal, stop,  and keep on firing till smoke is gone. 

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23 minutes ago, Musouka said:

Feels like people more accurate at shooting Haida creeping along in her smoke than a ship in a static smoke cloud.

TBF, perfectly stationary ships seem to mess up the passive predictive aim assist the game has, as anyone who has seen their team throw a game epic failing trying to farm damage on an AFK BB while the AFK's active teammates dismantle them can tell you.

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