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Imperial_Magnate

Saipan/Kaga at T8

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This isn't a debate about if there should be a CV rework or not, WG is doing it regardless of what some people think.

The point I would like to bring up is there Kaga and Saipan don't belong at T8 with this new rework. They belong at T6. Just in terms of setup, why would I want to American premium T8s? Leave the Enterprise at T8 and put the Saipan at T6! They could have some unique "flavor" to them to make each interesting but WG hasn't told us anything! Besides, just look at them. How is Saipan equal to the Enterprise?

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4 minutes ago, Imperial_Magnate said:

How is Saipan equal to the Enterprise?

by having access to more advanced planes but in small squadrons or one big honky dive bomber squadron. 

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I'm sure the CVs will be tweaked, including Saipan, Kaga, Enterprise and Graf Zepplin. It is a global CV change after all.

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Kaga will get better-tier planes, because having T6 planes at T8 will be laughably bad.

Saipan on the other hand will probably get gutted since its main feature of having OP fighters won't be relevant anymore with the rework.

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This is an opportunity for WG to fix past mistakes without violating their premium policy. Saipan was a problem for a long time (especially after strafing out of locks), and Kaga was balanced into an imaginary meta where people specced into AA. By moving them to T8, hopefully they will be better balanced and have more reasonable counterplay options.

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34 minutes ago, RyuuohD_NA said:

Kaga will get better-tier planes, because having T6 planes at T8 will be laughably bad.

Saipan on the other hand will probably get gutted since its main feature of having OP fighters won't be relevant anymore with the rework.

She also had strike planes from the same tier as her fighters. They were just as fast and no normal carriers at her tier could hope to catch those bombers once they run away.

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52 minutes ago, RyuuohD_NA said:

Kaga will get better-tier planes, because having T6 planes at T8 will be laughably bad.

Saipan on the other hand will probably get gutted since its main feature of having OP fighters won't be relevant anymore with the rework.

The PTS client is showing Saipan as having poor reserves (which in rework language equates to slow squadron prep/recovery time) "Douglas AD1/2/"  or "BTD Destroyers". it is unclear what other advantages Saipan will have, given it has no secondary defence, minimal AA, no DFAA, and low hp.

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2 hours ago, Hurlbut said:

by having access to more advanced planes but in small squadrons or one big honky dive bomber squadron. 

Not to mention that hangar capacity is no longer a thing.

 

2 hours ago, RyuuohD_NA said:

Kaga will get better-tier planes, because having T6 planes at T8 will be laughably bad.

Saipan on the other hand will probably get gutted since its main feature of having OP fighters won't be relevant anymore with the rework.

That's probably what's going to happen.  Saipan is going to lose a lot.  Her fighters were the entire reason of her advantages.

 

Unless it has already occurred in earlier phases of the CV Rework, Saipan herself will require a massive rework.  She was built on her fighters being so powerful.  Fighters are reduced to being a consumable.

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2 hours ago, RyuuohD_NA said:

Kaga will get better-tier planes, because having T6 planes at T8 will be laughably bad.
Saipan on the other hand will probably get gutted since its main feature of having OP fighters won't be relevant anymore with the rework.

 

2 hours ago, Hurlbut said:

She also had strike planes from the same tier as her fighters. They were just as fast and no normal carriers at her tier could hope to catch those bombers once they run away.

 

1 hour ago, LoveBote said:

The PTS client is showing Saipan as having poor reserves (which in rework language equates to slow squadron prep/recovery time) "Douglas AD1/2/"  or "BTD Destroyers". it is unclear what other advantages Saipan will have, given it has no secondary defence, minimal AA, no DFAA, and low hp.

 

18 minutes ago, HazeGrayUnderway said:

Not to mention that hangar capacity is no longer a thing.

That's probably what's going to happen.  Saipan is going to lose a lot.  Her fighters were the entire reason of her advantages.

Unless it has already occurred in earlier phases of the CV Rework, Saipan herself will require a massive rework.  She was built on her fighters being so powerful.  Fighters are reduced to being a consumable.

I'm not a CV player and I don't follow this much, but I do have Saipan in my port … 

So, Saipan would have no role vs tech tree and enterprise as I read above comments and would be a sell?

What is final version of both Kaga and Saipan?

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I say take the rework as an opportunity to balance them out. Saipan doesn't *need* a super gimmick, just make it on par with Indy, the Enterprise a slight variant of the Lexington, and the Kaga the T6 is basically already is (because it's gimmick doesn't apply to the rework). Putting in super gimmicky CVs into an already unstable rework situation is asking for disaster as they are very likely to be either OP or pathetic, just like the rework itself. Modest CVs that are very similar to the tech tree ones is just the safest bet that creates the least amount of work done when you have to go back to rebalance everything.

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47 minutes ago, Commander_367 said:

I'm not a CV player and I don't follow this much, but I do have Saipan in my port … 

So, Saipan would have no role vs tech tree and enterprise as I read above comments and would be a sell?

What is final version of both Kaga and Saipan?

I would not sell anything off yet.  Wait until the Rework is done and goes live, see how it goes.

 

Don't be like those guys that sold Belfast, Kutuzov because there were talks about the smoke - gunfire detection nerf.  Because the two ships were still just as powerful after the "nerf."

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Whatever happens I don't think Saipan and Kaga are going to retain the advantages they have next to their same tier counterparts. Having played both I know how filthy the Kaga and Saipan are in their strike and AS roles respectively. It's the perfect opportunity for WG to soften them up.

Edited by Sumseaman

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The question is about torp drop pattern.  Kaga, Enterprise , and Graf currently have a unique torp drop pattern. If the rework kicks in next patch, will the torp patterns all be unified a regular pattern( namely no special pattern) or will they keep there distinguished torp patterns. 

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5 minutes ago, Poisonous_Lily said:

The question is about torp drop pattern.  Kaga, Enterprise , and Graf currently have a unique torp drop pattern. If the rework kicks in next patch, will the torp patterns all be unified a regular pattern( namely no special pattern) or will they keep there distinguished torp patterns. 

Last test the drop patterns were distinctive nationally and by tiers.   There was also some loosening effect when under pressure from AA of fighter cover?  Up to very drastic.  But each test had some pretty radically adjustments and changes/improvements?    Anxious to see what we get for PTS?     

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Safest route is to neuter the premiums, watch results, slowly buff to desired effects.  

If i owned any of them, I wouldnt sell them unless you don't like the inherent gameplay for the ship type.

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2 hours ago, Commander_367 said:

 

 

 

I'm not a CV player and I don't follow this much, but I do have Saipan in my port … 

So, Saipan would have no role vs tech tree and enterprise as I read above comments and would be a sell?

What is final version of both Kaga and Saipan?

Saipan would have no specific role as regards the tech tree. It would be a very easy CV for brand new players, I suspect. Its strike loadout will be average, but with slow reformation times. Very vulnerable to dd snipe (no secondaries). But in this respect, Enterprise won't have much greater utility vis the tech tree either.

Kaga will remain an interesting and charismatic CV to play, even at tier 8.

The information you seek is out there, but most of it is locked behind 3rd party paywalls of datamining websites/ I have posted snippets on this forum (and some in this thread)/ Fresh snippet, Kaga torps will run reasonably and comparatively fast. This should help players adapt to and learn IJN tech tree cvs.

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10 minutes ago, LoveBote said:

Saipan would have no specific role as regards the tech tree. It would be a very easy CV for brand new players, I suspect. Its strike loadout will be average, but with slow reformation times. Very vulnerable to dd snipe (no secondaries). But in this respect, Enterprise won't have much greater utility vis the tech tree either.

Kaga will remain an interesting and charismatic CV to play, even at tier 8.

The information you seek is out there, but most of it is locked behind 3rd party paywalls of datamining websites/ I have posted snippets on this forum (and some in this thread)/ Fresh snippet, Kaga torps will run reasonably and comparatively fast. This should help players adapt to and learn IJN tech tree cvs.

I was wondering if I should grind and use fxp to get Lexington then … is there any advantage to doing this before ranger disappears?

 

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11 minutes ago, LoveBote said:

Saipan would have no specific role as regards the tech tree. It would be a very easy CV for brand new players, I suspect. Its strike loadout will be average, but with slow reformation times. Very vulnerable to dd snipe (no secondaries). But in this respect, Enterprise won't have much greater utility vis the tech tree either.

Kaga will remain an interesting and charismatic CV to play, even at tier 8.

The information you seek is out there, but most of it is locked behind 3rd party paywalls of datamining websites/ I have posted snippets on this forum (and some in this thread)/ Fresh snippet, Kaga torps will run reasonably and comparatively fast. This should help players adapt to and learn IJN tech tree cvs.

What of your beloved Graf LoveBote? Any news on the premium UK CV?

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I have participated in the last three CV rework tests and been playing them since closed beta. I would not plan on selling any CV including premiums once 8.0 goes live. For those unaware things will be broken and unbalanced come live launch. The dev team has stated prior the tests was focused more on game-play mechanics and bugs. It is near impossible to completely balance ships in a none production test environment like in the close test CV rework and public test as player behaviors are very different versus the live production environment. The dev team will be addressing balance on things that come up after the release so do not sell your CV's right away. It will take the next month or two to iron those issues out.

Moreover I have all the CV prem and after testing the rework Tier 8 and 10 CV are in a good place that need small little tweaks. The issue is tier 4 CV that feel very under whelming as far as your influence in the match. You just tickle damage. For a starting CV this needs to be corrected to get more new players excited to play CV. Right now CV's at tier 4 and 6 under perform.

Some ships like the Saipan and GZ will be considered nerfs. I know I have both ships with Saipan over a 60% win rate and my GZ holds over a 90% win rate. We have to see if GZ and Kaga keep there strike power as those elements is why these ships where strong but even then they had hard counters. Enterprise was focused on air control so it will be interesting what the rework does to her. Overall I will test both PTS and live on the changes and provide my feedback.

As it stands I am not worried about the premiums. I am more concerned with the current state of Tier 4 and 6 CV from the last rework test being so underwhelming. (doing 20k plus damage in a tier 4 was serious work for example) to influence the game but not uncommon to do 50k+ in the current RTS CV gameplay. Overall if feels like they got nerfed with so little impact they are overall boring.

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8 hours ago, RyuuohD_NA said:

Kaga will get better-tier planes, because having T6 planes at T8 will be laughably bad.

True, but a combination of bigger wings and faster cooldowns might make up for it.

8 hours ago, RyuuohD_NA said:

Saipan on the other hand will probably get gutted since its main feature of having OP fighters won't be relevant anymore with the rework.

Not as such, but it could have a more powerful fighter consumable, along with more charges and/or faster cooldown, plus it could have T10 bombers in smaller wings.

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2 hours ago, Darth_Blackcat said:

I have participated in the last three CV rework tests and been playing them since closed beta. I would not plan on selling any CV including premiums once 8.0 goes live. For those unaware things will be broken and unbalanced come live launch. The dev team has stated prior the tests was focused more on game-play mechanics and bugs. It is near impossible to completely balance ships in a none production test environment like in the close test CV rework and public test as player behaviors are very different versus the live production environment. The dev team will be addressing balance on things that come up after the release so do not sell your CV's right away. It will take the next month or two to iron those issues out.

Moreover I have all the CV prem and after testing the rework Tier 8 and 10 CV are in a good place that need small little tweaks. The issue is tier 4 CV that feel very under whelming as far as your influence in the match. You just tickle damage. For a starting CV this needs to be corrected to get more new players excited to play CV. Right now CV's at tier 4 and 6 under perform.

Some ships like the Saipan and GZ will be considered nerfs. I know I have both ships with Saipan over a 60% win rate and my GZ holds over a 90% win rate. We have to see if GZ and Kaga keep there strike power as those elements is why these ships where strong but even then they had hard counters. Enterprise was focused on air control so it will be interesting what the rework does to her. Overall I will test both PTS and live on the changes and provide my feedback.

As it stands I am not worried about the premiums. I am more concerned with the current state of Tier 4 and 6 CV from the last rework test being so underwhelming. (doing 20k plus damage in a tier 4 was serious work for example) to influence the game but not uncommon to do 50k+ in the current RTS CV gameplay. Overall if feels like they got nerfed with so little impact they are overall boring.

Tier 6 was okay after the last test,  fairly fun and entertaining without being too wonky.  Tier 4 though?  Absolutely awful.  I get it,  no one has AA at T4,  but making the gameplay a chore isn't the way to fix CVs for that tier.  

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I picked up the Saipan when there was a deep discount but they announced "year of the CV" so I never bothered to master it lol.... I guess I'll be taking the refund or do the more in-the-know of you suggest I just keep it?

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10 hours ago, Sumseaman said:

What of your beloved Graf LoveBote? Any news on the premium UK CV?

At the moment it appears it will lose its AP, but retain the HE (still powerful stuff). Secondaries will still have the greatst range of its tier (6.6km), it will still have hydro (no I don't know why!). I have yet to discover anything about the drop patterns or squadron sizes. HE bombs and the torpedos would appear to be reasonably powerful. I have a feeling I will be an unfaithful lover once the UK premium cv is released.

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