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Weather_Guesser

Divisions are tough

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I can't really point to the math and say it with clarity, it's more of a gut feeling, but I've come up with the conclusion that when not in clan battles, divisions almost always end up on the losing team.

1.  I tend to trip over where my division mates are going, worried more about the route taken than being defensive on that route.  I try to be a good wingman, which often lands my ship at angles I wouldn't normally present to the enemy.

2.  I worry about staying "close" to my division mates; in other situations where I'd find a strategic point to reverse or turn away and find a new fight, the division can often dictate that you stay and fight a losing battle, just to keep your division mate afloat an extra 10 seconds.

3.  While my divisions usually result in a win for the team, I've noticed my personal stats nosedive while on a division.  A dubious win.

4.  In ranked, literally my only "slow down" points was when I went into a game in a division.  The two players I tried this, as well as myself, have all reached Rank1 within the first couple of days, however if we stayed divisioned, we all feel as if we'd still be Rank 6.  In every one of my maps in this ranked season, teams with a division lost every time, not just ones I was on - all of them.  You'd think taking in 40% of the team would be a good start.  Somehow, my experiences rarely translate this.

5.  I've talked to other players that are better than I am, and the results are iffy.  I know of some really good players who see a much higher win rate while on divisions than not.  In really getting to the issue, those players never seem to feel any differently while in a division - they continue to play their own game, and more or less expect their division mates to follow their lead, and use their mates to get ahead.  Like a Queen flanked by her two pawns.  The two pawns can take a couple of pieces, but really, they are there to fall, so the Queen doesn't have to.

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What are some elements you utilize to ensure you're getting the most out of your divisions?  How do you ensure your not a pawn in the division?  How do you marry being a good division mate with self-preservation?  Does anyone have any "tips & tricks" in how to both be a reliable division buddy & productive for the team as a whole?

Nevermind all the outside factors of division fails; afk's, dc's, bio breaks, waiting for people to "die", waiting for people to stop watching the battle when dead - i.e. return to port.  I genuinely feel as if Divisions slow down my total rate of game play, but theoretically, jumping on a map with a couple more "good" players you trust, should lower the randomness of your outcomes on random maps.  Again, it usually does, at the cost of my own success, or in spite of it.

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I'm often very uncomfortable playing in divisions.  I find that they cramp my normal play style when the players I'm divved with are expecting me to stick with them.  For example, in standard mode battles, I tend to have better situational awareness than most, and if I recognize that there's a part of our "line" that has a whole in it, or the flank on the other side of the map has  fallen, I will usually realize that it's possible that the enemy is heading for our base and I need to head back to base ASAP (rather than wait for the first enemy to get on the base and start capping).  But when in a div, I will often turn back for the base instinctively without saying a word.  And on occasion, I've headed back to base and my div mates don't realize it for a few minutes and then realize I'm not with them.

On top of it, I've never been into playing in divs much or platoons in WoT.  So I tend to not be overly communicative.  It's different in clan battles, because I instinctively know to communicate.

 

34 minutes ago, Weather_Guesser said:

I've talked to other players that are better than I am, and the results are iffy.  I know of some really good players who see a much higher win rate while on divisions than not.  In really getting to the issue, those players never seem to feel any differently while in a division - they continue to play their own game, and more or less expect their division mates to follow their lead, and use their mates to get ahead.  Like a Queen flanked by her two pawns.  The two pawns can take a couple of pieces, but really, they are there to fall, so the Queen doesn't have to.

Yeah, excellent players with great WRs tend to play in divisions a lot.  Oh, there are some players who are solo unicums, but it seems that most unicums choose to play in divs with other unicums as much as possible.  It's understandable.  It's one way to put a thumb on the scales of MM, to legally "cheat" the system in your favor, to help your chances of winning.  After all, if you can add 1 or 2 other unicums to your team, that's better than having 1 or 2 server average players.  Duh.  

As for whether those unicums are working together in their divisions or not, I'd suspect that they are most of the time.  After all, while adding 1 or 2 unicums to your team and each of you playing your own game should be better than having 1-2 average players on your team doing the same thing, having a div of 2 or 3 unicums working together should be even more productive for the team, since the chances are pretty good that those players are using voice comms, which should improve their team work considerably. 

As for following a lead, well, if they're all unicums, you might end up with 3 prima donnas all wanting to lead and no one willing to follow.  I suppose it depends on the personalities involved. 

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I prefer a supporting playstyle, so I like divisions. I especially like playing battleship behind an aggressive, competent DD player, and am fortunate to be able to div in BBs with @Ares1967and @NotoriousRNG, who are both fantastic DD players. IMHO a div should have a mix of ships for best effectiveness.

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3 hours ago, Weather_Guesser said:

I can't really point to the math and say it with clarity, it's more of a gut feeling, but I've come up with the conclusion that when not in clan battles, divisions almost always end up on the losing team.

1.  I tend to trip over where my division mates are going, worried more about the route taken than being defensive on that route.  I try to be a good wingman, which often lands my ship at angles I wouldn't normally present to the enemy.

2.  I worry about staying "close" to my division mates; in other situations where I'd find a strategic point to reverse or turn away and find a new fight, the division can often dictate that you stay and fight a losing battle, just to keep your division mate afloat an extra 10 seconds.

3.  While my divisions usually result in a win for the team, I've noticed my personal stats nosedive while on a division.  A dubious win.

4.  In ranked, literally my only "slow down" points was when I went into a game in a division.  The two players I tried this, as well as myself, have all reached Rank1 within the first couple of days, however if we stayed divisioned, we all feel as if we'd still be Rank 6.  In every one of my maps in this ranked season, teams with a division lost every time, not just ones I was on - all of them.  You'd think taking in 40% of the team would be a good start.  Somehow, my experiences rarely translate this.

5.  I've talked to other players that are better than I am, and the results are iffy.  I know of some really good players who see a much higher win rate while on divisions than not.  In really getting to the issue, those players never seem to feel any differently while in a division - they continue to play their own game, and more or less expect their division mates to follow their lead, and use their mates to get ahead.  Like a Queen flanked by her two pawns.  The two pawns can take a couple of pieces, but really, they are there to fall, so the Queen doesn't have to.

----------------------------------

What are some elements you utilize to ensure you're getting the most out of your divisions?  How do you ensure your not a pawn in the division?  How do you marry being a good division mate with self-preservation?  Does anyone have any "tips & tricks" in how to both be a reliable division buddy & productive for the team as a whole?

Nevermind all the outside factors of division fails; afk's, dc's, bio breaks, waiting for people to "die", waiting for people to stop watching the battle when dead - i.e. return to port.  I genuinely feel as if Divisions slow down my total rate of game play, but theoretically, jumping on a map with a couple more "good" players you trust, should lower the randomness of your outcomes on random maps.  Again, it usually does, at the cost of my own success, or in spite of it.

 Divisions are still subject to the whim of the MMer. I was playing the Nurnberg in ranked to complete a campaign task while div'd with @ClassicLib. We lost 5 straight matches including one where our div killed all 5 reds. I had 4 kills taking out the last three reds.. and we still lost. Video below. It took another 5 matches solo to get a win. 

Divisions are easier to get wins in when they're composed of better than average players just because it ensures less places for poor players from your team. It helps more if you're div'd with players who compliment each other. I often div with ClassicLib and @Taichunger. Those two really work well with my hyperaggressive DD play style. Our w/r playing together is somewhere north of 75%. When I'm in a div with others it just doesn't feel the same. The communication isnt as smooth and I don't intuitively know what to expect from the positioning.

2 hours ago, Taichunger said:

I prefer a supporting playstyle, so I like divisions. I especially like playing battleship behind an aggressive, competent DD player, and am fortunate to be able to div in BBs with @Ares1967and @NotoriousRNG, who are both fantastic DD players. IMHO a div should have a mix of ships for best effectiveness.

 You make it easier to play DD. You're usually in the correct position to bail me out when I bite off more than I can chew. You don't tunnel vision on targets and you keep an eye on your divmates. Trust me, we appreciate that. :Smile_honoring:

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3 hours ago, Weather_Guesser said:

I can't really point to the math and say it with clarity, it's more of a gut feeling, but I've come up with the conclusion that when not in clan battles, divisions almost always end up on the losing team.

1.  I tend to trip over where my division mates are going, worried more about the route taken than being defensive on that route.  I try to be a good wingman, which often lands my ship at angles I wouldn't normally present to the enemy.

2.  I worry about staying "close" to my division mates; in other situations where I'd find a strategic point to reverse or turn away and find a new fight, the division can often dictate that you stay and fight a losing battle, just to keep your division mate afloat an extra 10 seconds.

3.  While my divisions usually result in a win for the team, I've noticed my personal stats nosedive while on a division.  A dubious win.

4.  In ranked, literally my only "slow down" points was when I went into a game in a division.  The two players I tried this, as well as myself, have all reached Rank1 within the first couple of days, however if we stayed divisioned, we all feel as if we'd still be Rank 6.  In every one of my maps in this ranked season, teams with a division lost every time, not just ones I was on - all of them.  You'd think taking in 40% of the team would be a good start.  Somehow, my experiences rarely translate this.

5.  I've talked to other players that are better than I am, and the results are iffy.  I know of some really good players who see a much higher win rate while on divisions than not.  In really getting to the issue, those players never seem to feel any differently while in a division - they continue to play their own game, and more or less expect their division mates to follow their lead, and use their mates to get ahead.  Like a Queen flanked by her two pawns.  The two pawns can take a couple of pieces, but really, they are there to fall, so the Queen doesn't have to.

----------------------------------

What are some elements you utilize to ensure you're getting the most out of your divisions?  How do you ensure your not a pawn in the division?  How do you marry being a good division mate with self-preservation?  Does anyone have any "tips & tricks" in how to both be a reliable division buddy & productive for the team as a whole?

Nevermind all the outside factors of division fails; afk's, dc's, bio breaks, waiting for people to "die", waiting for people to stop watching the battle when dead - i.e. return to port.  I genuinely feel as if Divisions slow down my total rate of game play, but theoretically, jumping on a map with a couple more "good" players you trust, should lower the randomness of your outcomes on random maps.  Again, it usually does, at the cost of my own success, or in spite of it.

That's odd I find divisions are the easiest way to farm 80-85% win rates. Just joining a division doesn't guarantee wins.  You need to actually want to win games.

1)Play with individuals that like to work together.  This sounds odd, but some players despise team work.  Some just want to do their own thing and farm damage.  This isn't conducive to winning games.

2)Play complimentary ships.  A three BB division isn't going to have as much influence as a balanced division that includes a DD.  Three BBs will be useless if your dds yolo and instantly die, or refuse to play the objective and spot.  What works well is one of each class, and a radar cruiser.  Players can rotate responsibilities each round so there can be some variety.

3)Division with a decent CV player, and play AA ships.

4)Play on voice coms

5)Actually care about learning to work as a team

These points may seem obvious, but so many players have no concept of what it takes to win games, or simply don't care about winning and only want to farm.

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