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IronMike11C4O

I watched the Italian DD stream

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I watched the Flamu video on the new Italian DD premium that WGing says is tier 6. Here WGing let me do you a favor drop it to tier 4 where it belongs leave it as is and save yourselves 9 months of trying to come up with gimmicks to balance that thing.

The End.

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I have to say that under the overtiering lies a solid basis, purely based on the alpha that 8 rifles bring. If the shell arcs were improved to USN or KM standards  and she got a small Rof buff I feel she would be suitable for tier VI, and not another out of place meme ship.

Edited by warheart1992

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Eight gun broadside and nearly 14k hp would be OP at T4.

 

Improve the turret traverse and the concealment and give decent smoke and Leone becomes a good knife fighter DD. RN improved handling could work too. 

 

Or give it good ballistics so ypu can gun boat at long ranges.

Edited by Xlap
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Yeah no, T4 is way too low for that thing, plus i get the feeling you only want it at T4 so it gets protected MM and never faces T6's, so it becomes another OP seal clubber. Yeah no, if it is to be downtiered, then T5 should be the lowest it will go.

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24 minutes ago, IronMike11C4O said:

I watched the Flamu video on the new Italian DD premium that WGing says is tier 6. Here WGing let me do you a favor drop it to tier 4 where it belongs leave it as is and save yourselves 9 months of trying to come up with gimmicks to balance that thing.

The End.

I don't think that they need to use lots of gimmicks to balance it.  (I watched the same video.  Flamu was in sarcasm beast mode!)    IMO, all it really needs to be made more reasonable is to improve the shell ballistics.  Oh, and maybe improve its maneuverability/handling in some way.  The Leone was so dang slow for a tier 6 DD.  Maybe it they gave it a torp reload booster, it would help make up for the very low number of torpedoes.

Seriously, slow, super floaty shells.  Molasses slow torps, and only 4 of them (in 2x2 launchers, which is historical).  Slow (for a DD) ship.  The only thing that the Leone has going for it is all those guns.

I will say though that they have to be careful to not make the shell ballistics too good, because then you'd end up with a DD with incredible gun power, a tier 6 Harugumo, I suppose.

Historically speaking, it seems that the Italians went in more for guns than torpedoes on their DDs, from looking at the various RM DD classes on Wikipedia.  These VERY floaty guns might not seem so punishing overall if the Leone's torpedoes were more useful (i.e. faster).   Then again, even if they were faster, only launching a total of 4 torps doesn't seem like a good formula for useful torps in this game.  These torps could be nearly invisible, and yet still be nearly useless if they're so slow that people have too much time to accidentally avoid them (i.e. change course without even realizing that there were torps heading their way).

I suppose that one possible upside to the long range of these torps is that you can take the torp acceleration skill for 5 more knots of speed and still have plenty of useful range.  But on the flip side, these torps seem sooooo slow that the TA skill might seem almost required rather than truly an option, thus eating up 2 skill points.

Meh.  I'm still looking forward to the RM DD line, whenever it shows up.  And ditto for the French DD line.

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9 minutes ago, ryuukei8569 said:

Yeah no, T4 is way too low for that thing, plus i get the feeling you only want it at T4 so it gets protected MM and never faces T6's, so it becomes another OP seal clubber. Yeah no, if it is to be downtiered, then T5 should be the lowest it will go.

At least you get my point in this current itteration it is in no way competitive at tier 6. 

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Don't get too hung up on the OP's T4 suggestion (I don't know that it was a completely serious one).  The point is the ballistics are a joke.  I don't know how those enemy ships were getting hit by Flamu's shell.  All you have to do is turn a tiny bit and they all miss.  As soon as people know the ballistics are so bad they make sure to steer and you'll never hit jack.  2x2 torps, a joke, and those ballistics are a joke.  The fact Flamu was able to put together a decent game in that ship is a testament to just how bad the holiday players are.  

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9 minutes ago, ryuukei8569 said:

Yeah no, T4 is way too low for that thing, plus i get the feeling you only want it at T4 so it gets protected MM and never faces T6's, so it becomes another OP seal clubber. Yeah no, if it is to be downtiered, then T5 should be the lowest it will go.

Honestly, I'd MUCH rather that WG tweaked the stats on the boat rather than just downtiering it as the fix.  Even at tier 5, this DD would seem like a pain to play.  Lots of potential DPM, sure.  But only if you can hit anything.

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Just now, Crucis said:

Honestly, I'd MUCH rather that WG tweaked the stats on the boat rather than just downtiering it as the fix.  Even at tier 5, this DD would seem like a pain to play.  Lots of potential DPM, sure.  But only if you can hit anything.

There is no way anyone even Flamu would have much of a chance hitting me in a Podvoisky with the way the Leone currently is. It's stats alone scream tier 5 yet it's hull form screams tier 4. My guess is they are gonna gimmick the ever loving S out of this thing 

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Expect it to be a campaign reward ship is my WAG. 

Any improvements will be a bonus in that case.

 

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3 minutes ago, IronMike11C4O said:

There is no way anyone even Flamu would have much of a chance hitting me in a Podvoisky with the way the Leone currently is. It's stats alone scream tier 5 yet it's hull form screams tier 4. My guess is they are gonna gimmick the ever loving S out of this thing 

You could be right, but consumable gimmicks are nothing but (to use a familiar phrase) putting lipstick on a pig.  Right now, the Leone is a gunboat that barely seems able to hit anything other than slow lumbering BBs at any decent range.

This thing needs to have some combination of the following tweaks to make it decent: 

  • Improve the shell ballistics.
  • Increase the torpedoes' speed.
  • Give the ship the torp reload booster.  (Yes, one of those gimmicky consumables, but arguably justifiable in the face of only having 4 torp tubes.)
  • Improve the ship's speed.

Anyways, in the final analysis, the Leone is a gunboat DD.  And all the tweaks in the world to everything other than her guns aren't going to mean a damn if she can't hit a bloody thing with those mortars, err, I mean, guns.

 

 

 

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Just now, Sparviero said:

Expect it to be a campaign reward ship is my WAG. 

Any improvements will be a bonus in that case.

 

Not bad speculation, Sparviero.  But that said, this ship makes the Aigle look damned good.  Not that the Aigle is bad, but it's also not great.  But the Leone just seems so damned lame.  I doubt that the Leone would even attain Mouse's "Mehbote" rating in this state.  Right now, it seems more like a "Garbage" skow.

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But mike don't you know being overtiered is the Italian gimmick( the BBs being the odd ones out).

Edited by Krupp_Sabot
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12 minutes ago, Crucis said:

Not bad speculation, Sparviero.  But that said, this ship makes the Aigle look damned good.  Not that the Aigle is bad, but it's also not great.  But the Leone just seems so damned lame.  I doubt that the Leone would even attain Mouse's "Mehbote" rating in this state.  Right now, it seems more like a "Garbage" skow.

Someone will find it to be the next best thing since polenta and salsiccia. :fish_cute_2:

I just don’t want to invest hope in WG regaining common sense with this ship. As stated Aigle looks better at this juncture in the dev process and it was available without having to purchase. So for now I will imagine a summer or winter release for an Italian line. :cap_wander:

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35 minutes ago, Crucis said:

You could be right, but consumable gimmicks are nothing but (to use a familiar phrase) putting lipstick on a pig.  Right now, the Leone is a gunboat that barely seems able to hit anything other than slow lumbering BBs at any decent range.

This thing needs to have some combination of the following tweaks to make it decent: 

  • Improve the shell ballistics.
  • Increase the torpedoes' speed.
  • Give the ship the torp reload booster.  (Yes, one of those gimmicky consumables, but arguably justifiable in the face of only having 4 torp tubes.)
  • Improve the ship's speed.

Anyways, in the final analysis, the Leone is a gunboat DD.  And all the tweaks in the world to everything other than her guns aren't going to mean a damn if she can't hit a bloody thing with those mortars, err, I mean, guns. 

  

 

 

A shell velocity improvement is not likely to happen, as that is a stat what wargaming typically sticks to historical accuracy on. So I think a ballistics improvement is highly unlikely to happen. Likewise, her speed of 34 knots is also historical, as such it is unlikely to be altered. as for torpedoes, it would be preferable if they just gave it a very fast reload as well as a faster torp speed that ought to balance them out. But gun buffs are likely to be with reload time rather than ballistics changes.

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This ship is definitely not tier 6 material as is. As I watched the flamu gameplay, I kept thinking of how he was able to land any shots/torps whatsoever. Even the sound of the guns firing sounded like catapults releasing a flaming rock. I’m not sure which tier 6 dd is considered slow, but this one takes the cake. 

But, after seeing how the dealt with both the ducas, I’m not surprised that Leone happened like this. I hope to not see gimmicks, but buffs like the ones crucis stated ( minus the torp speed reload). 

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6 minutes ago, ryuukei8569 said:

A shell velocity improvement is not likely to happen, as that is a stat what wargaming typically sticks to historical accuracy on. So I think a ballistics improvement is highly unlikely to happen. Likewise, her speed of 34 knots is also historical, as such it is unlikely to be altered. as for torpedoes, it would be preferable if they just gave it a very fast reload as well as a faster torp speed that ought to balance them out. But gun buffs are likely to be with reload time rather than ballistics changes.

In this case WG might magic the M26 twin mount to justify a blistering m/v of 850 mps. Similar to d’Aosta having 1000 mps. 

 

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Arsenal ship? This could be WOWS's equivalent of a direct-to-video release.

(So was Charleston, but Charleston is nothing more than a slightly modified St Louis and anyone can have her functional equivalent for free.)

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