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AJTP89

Just a Reminder BB AP Still Hurts DDs

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So, I nuked a DD with my Montanta AP a bit ago.

shot-18_12.23_22_05.51-0428.thumb.jpg.78a2ff7ed2ceaf7e4e58527fabba82e7.jpg

8 shells, 10K damage, instant deletion, no normal pens needed. 

Apparently he thought that the AP nerf meant BBs did only small amounts of damage to DDs. He was wondering in chat afterwards if there was a bug. I explained that if you sit broadside on, stationary, within 10km of 12 16in guns, it's still going to hurt. Also, just because you smoked, doesn't mean in the 10 sec you were spotted I couldn't lock on and unload. So just remember that 1350 damage might not seem like a lot, but multiply it by up to 12 and it turns out that giving broadside to a BB is still a paddling.

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3 minutes ago, AJTP89 said:

So, I nuked a DD with my Montanta AP a bit ago.

 

This, of course, means that Montana is OP and must be nerfed ASAP.  The magical force fields meant to protect DD's whenever a battleship shoots at them are supposed to be inviolate.  DD players demand it in the name of balans.

Edited by Highlord
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Of course it is when you get that many hits out of a single volley but that is not something you can rely on happening on a consistent basis.

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37 minutes ago, BrushWolf said:

Of course it is when you get that many hits out of a single volley but that is not something you can rely on happening on a consistent basis.

Yeah, 8 hits in one volley, on a DD?  Nice shot!  But it's not something you see every day.

I hit a DD with Roma the other day with 5 shells.  Blap!.  5 overpens with 15-inch shells is still going to hurt.

Again, that's not something I see every day.  I dev-strike a cruiser or citadel a BB more often than I hit a DD with 5 shells at once.

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8 in one volley?  Anything that is broadside to a montana at less then 12km is going to get a paddling.  Just wait for DD mafia to roll in and go but over pens shouldnt hurt a DD!  Tell that to the crew and machines inside them when a 16inch 2700lbs shell rips through the ship at 700+mps.

Edited by JToney3449
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The issue isn't upper tiers where BBs have a chance to shoot straight, it's low and early mid tiers where BBs couldn't hit the side of a barn from the inside.

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2 hours ago, AJTP89 said:

So, I nuked a DD with my Montanta AP a bit ago.

shot-18_12.23_22_05.51-0428.thumb.jpg.78a2ff7ed2ceaf7e4e58527fabba82e7.jpg

8 shells, 10K damage, instant deletion, no normal pens needed. 

Apparently he thought that the AP nerf meant BBs did only small amounts of damage to DDs. He was wondering in chat afterwards if there was a bug. I explained that if you sit broadside on, stationary, within 10km of 12 16in guns, it's still going to hurt. Also, just because you smoked, doesn't mean in the 10 sec you were spotted I couldn't lock on and unload. So just remember that 1350 damage might not seem like a lot, but multiply it by up to 12 and it turns out that giving broadside to a BB is still a paddling.

Absolutely! The waves of invincible DDs  that were feared by the 'sky is falling' few, was never going to materialise.

WG have shown their intention regarding survival rates of ship types as DDs have been bottom since I started playing nearly 2 years ago and has never changed.

 

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2 hours ago, Highlord said:

This, of course, means that Montana is OP and must be nerfed ASAP.  The magical force fields meant to protect DD's whenever a battleship shoots at them are supposed to be inviolate.  DD players demand it in the name of balans.

Highlord, I must correct you. As stated in my above post, it was in fact 'some' BB players that got hysterical and started arguing waves of invincible DDs would emerge with the AP change.

Most players (especially the many good BB players I know), never had any real worries.

It is easy to pick out a player that views something objectively. Glad to see you are one of those unbiased players. :Smile_smile:

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1 hour ago, _WaveRider_ said:

Highlord, I must correct you. As stated in my above post, it was in fact 'some' BB players that got hysterical and started arguing waves of invincible DDs would emerge with the AP change.

Most players (especially the many good BB players I know), never had any real worries.

It is easy to pick out a player that views something objectively. Glad to see you are one of those unbiased players. :Smile_smile:

Never really had a problem with this at any tier,  yeah you may need to be a little more aware at lower tiers because it is likely you will need to blap the DD twice and you may get those silly torps heading out, but it is still easy enough,  and frankly, it incentivises a decent secondary build where possible from T6 upwards.   One hard hit with AP and then let the secondaries complete the job.

Interestingly, what I do feel is that with all the crud going on by WG to make the game simpler, what the AP change has done is make it harder at lower levels for BB players but easier at high levels for those that have a clue.  Unless you really get good at anticipating what the DD's will do, then at lower tiers, where the newbs are, have been made harder by this change which seems an anathema for what WG is trying to do, but hey, I am sure there is a reason  :cap_fainting:

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36 minutes ago, MaliceA4Thought said:

Never really had a problem with this at any tier,  yeah you may need to be a little more aware at lower tiers because it is likely you will need to blap the DD twice and you may get those silly torps heading out, but it is still easy enough,  and frankly, it incentivises a decent secondary build where possible from T6 upwards.   One hard hit with AP and then let the secondaries complete the job.

Interestingly, what I do feel is that with all the crud going on by WG to make the game simpler, what the AP change has done is make it harder at lower levels for BB players but easier at high levels for those that have a clue.  Unless you really get good at anticipating what the DD's will do, then at lower tiers, where the newbs are, have been made harder by this change which seems an anathema for what WG is trying to do, but hey, I am sure there is a reason  :cap_fainting:

Who knows it may make more people play more ship types at lower tiers? 

It may even make players try and play as teams and support each other more?

For a looong time when playing a BB, players have not really had to choose Captain skills with protection in mind. WG pretty much gave the ability to play a BB how you want, as they are so forgiving.

Now the BB player who sits at the back and doesn't support his screen, has a chance to see that screen collapse. And now, maybe instead of coming forward with full HP after everyone else has died, there is a chance they will also support earlier, for fear of the 'invincible' DDs coming to get them lol. :Smile_ohmy:

Of course this change doesn't really affect the good BB players anyway. Thankfully (as with all ship types), there are more good players than bad. :Smile_honoring:

 

Edited by _WaveRider_
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37 minutes ago, MaliceA4Thought said:

Never really had a problem with this at any tier,  yeah you may need to be a little more aware at lower tiers because it is likely you will need to blap the DD twice and you may get those silly torps heading out, but it is still easy enough,  and frankly, it incentivises a decent secondary build where possible from T6 upwards.   One hard hit with AP and then let the secondaries complete the job.

Interestingly, what I do feel is that with all the crud going on by WG to make the game simpler, what the AP change has done is make it harder at lower levels for BB players but easier at high levels for those that have a clue.  Unless you really get good at anticipating what the DD's will do, then at lower tiers, where the newbs are, have been made harder by this change which seems an anathema for what WG is trying to do, but hey, I am sure there is a reason  :cap_fainting:

When i was a newb when the game first came out everyone changed to H.E to shoot DDs no matter what tier.

And yes we anticipated, it a trait to being a good player instead of tunnel visioned players who only react to things slapping them in the face.

Bug comes along  A.P is doing more damage. the bug gets corrected and BB mains are crying as if A.P was like that from the start, it was not. It's not a nerf it's a correction.

Edited by Final8ty
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1 minute ago, Final8ty said:

When i was a newb when the game first came out i everyone changed to H.E to shoot DDs no matter what tier.

And yes we anticipated, it a trait to being i good player instead of tunnel visioned players who only react to things slapping them in the face.

Bug comes along  A.P is doing more damage. the bug gets corrected and BB mains are crying as if A.P was like that from the start, it was not. It's not a nerf it's a correction.

I think it's unfair to say BB mains are crying. A few may be worried, but the majority who know something about the game don't really have any concerns.

I will say that I agree the extreme lack of BB speed/manoverability at low tiers (tier II - IV), mean 'some' could do with a buff though. All ships need to be able to support the team effectively.

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2 hours ago, JToney3449 said:

8 in one volley?  Anything that is broadside to a montana at less then 12km is going to get a paddling.  Just wait for DD mafia to roll in and go but over pens shouldnt hurt a DD!  Tell that to the crew and machines inside them when a 16inch 2700lbs shell rips through the ship at 700+mps.

Ahhh, the DD Mafia, the mythical beast much talked about but never seen lol. :Smile_teethhappy:

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3 minutes ago, _WaveRider_ said:

I think it's unfair to say BB mains are crying. A few may be worried, but the majority who know something about the game don't really have any concerns.

I will say that I agree the extreme lack of BB speed/manoverability at low tiers (tier II - IV), mean 'some' could do with a buff though. All ships need to be able to support the team effectively.

The majority have no clue about the game, even when they get to T10 and even more know less now compared to when the game was in beta.

BB speed/maneuverability at low tiers do need a buff.

Edited by Final8ty

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Just now, Final8ty said:

Majority have no clue about the game.

No more than other ship types (% of players playing a type).

Have to disagree, as just being negative about a ship type, doesn't help a balanced discussion.

Many BB players I come across have been great and I know I owe my survival to them in some matches. I know in some cases they may feel the same. :Smile_honoring:

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4 minutes ago, _WaveRider_ said:

No more than other ship types (% of players playing a type).

Have to disagree, as just being negative about a ship type, doesn't help a balanced discussion.

Many BB players I come across have been great and I know I owe my survival to them in some matches. I know in some cases they may feel the same. :Smile_honoring:

Quote

Majority have no clue about the game.

Not "Majority of BB players have no clue about the game." i didn't say that.

% wise most know less than they did back in beta that goes for all ship type players.

It's not possible for only one class of players to know less so you shouldn't of even thought that was implied.

Edited by Final8ty

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When i started playing it was clear as i went up the tiers players knew more of what they were doing.

Now  im seeing tier 3 errors by the bucket load at T10.

Edited by Final8ty

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22 minutes ago, Final8ty said:

Not "Majority of BB players have no clue about the game." i didn't say that.

% wise most know less than they did back in beta that goes for all ship type players.

It's not possible for only one class of players to know less so you shouldn't of even thought that was implied.

Ok? :Smile_amazed:

But there are plenty that will imply (automatically hate) on the forums because of the type of ship or mode others choose to play; take a look at this very thread! However, as you did not intend for this to be the case in your post, I can only apologise for my mistake. :Smile_honoring:

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6 hours ago, AJTP89 said:

 

Apparently he thought that the AP nerf meant BBs did only small amounts of damage to DDs. +

It's amazing how many people think that, including the two DDs I sank at close range with AP from my Montana a few games ago. It wouldn't matter if you loaded those 16-inch guns with rocks and used black powder to shoot them, they would still pack enough of a punch to sink a small ship.

For game-specific details as to why AP can still sink DDs:

AP Shell406 mm AP Mk8 Maximum AP Shell Damage 13,500

Now, with an overpen you are not going to get max damage but you will get some damage. Over-penetrations deal x0.10 of the shell's listed damage. For the Montana, this means that each shell can still do 1,350 damage to a DD. 1350 x 12 = 16,200 if you can get a full broadside close-range volley into a DD. This can easily sink a Fletcher in one volley or any DD if it has part of its health removed.

 

Edited by Snargfargle

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3 minutes ago, _WaveRider_ said:

Ok? :Smile_amazed:

But there are plenty that will imply (automatically hate) on the forums because of the type of ship or mode others choose to play; take a look at this very thread! However, as you did not intend for this to be the case in your post, I can only apologise for my mistake. :Smile_honoring:

If BB or DD or CA players is not said specifically then it means players in general.

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6 minutes ago, Final8ty said:

If BB or DD or CA players is not said specifically then it means players in general.

Ok, as stated, my mistake and I apologise. :cap_horn:SORRY! :Smile_honoring:

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7 minutes ago, Snargfargle said:

It's amazing how many people think that, including the two DDs I sank at close range with AP from my Montana a few games ago. It wouldn't matter if you loaded those 16-inch guns with rocks and used black powder to shoot them, they would still pack enough of a punch to sink a small ship.

For game-specific details as to why AP can still sink DDs:

AP Shell406 mm AP Mk8 Maximum AP Shell Damage 13,500

Now, with an overpen you are not going to get max damage but you will get some damage. Over-penetrations deal x0.10 of the shell's listed damage. For the Montana, this means that each shell can still do 1,350 damage to a DD. 1350 x 12 = 16,200 if you can get a full broadside close-range volley into a DD. This can easily sink a Fletcher in one volley or any DD if it has part of its health removed.

 

Indeed.

Got radared through rocks and died

Not hard to see which ships volley did that most damage. BBAP still did more than CA and DD H.E.

lXgFKg.png

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Glad BB AP still hurts DDs since even ships like Graf Spee typically have to shoot AP at DDs if no time to switch to HE.

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All these players sating "wait for the DD mafia blah blah" look like fools. 

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