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It's kind of tough.

 

Vandguard's guns, shells are "traditional" and the AP will punish people.

Vanguard has a nifty Repair party, Cruiser Rudder Shift time.

But Vanguard has a citadel to worry about.

 

Monarch's guns are not "traditional" and the RN BB style.  Powerful HE but the short fusing on the AP, some around here expressed a dislike for that.

Monarch has, IIRC, the best Stealth Build concealment range in High Tier.  That is a BIG quality of life perk.

To citadel Monarch, the stars need to be lined up.  These Tier VII+ Tech Tree RN BBs can be difficult to citadel.  They have either waterline or submerged citadels.

 

Both are coated in 32mm armor which the HE spammers really like.  However, Vanguard's better Repair Party helps her recover more from those pens and fires.

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Monarch's stealth is pretty much best in game. I find her easier to play when up tiered for some reason, my avg damage and win rate is higher as well. Used her in T8 ranked to grind xp and did quite well. Very forgiving ship to play.

Vanguard requires a different play style. You have to protect your citadel whilst also dealing damage. Fast and handles really well. You can manoeuvre out of incoming shells and torps if you catch them firing early.

My Monarch WR: 65%, Lion; 57%. Vanguard a not so impressive 47%.

MM when I first got Vangaurd it was pretty much myself being the only T8 against Yamatos and GKF for about 30 games. 

 

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it also depends on whether you are leveling the monarch tree, taking the vanguard means you need to buy it and then pay to convert the xp over.

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Hey

I would take the Monarch; I just cant seem to get much damage from the Vanguard.  It handles pretty well but the guns suck; just when you think "Oh, that looks pretty good", boom, very little damage.  A big disappointment for me.  The monarch at least at times had some rather decent games.  Overall, I'm not a fan of any of the RN BB's up to and very much including Conqueror (even though it holds my damage record).

 

Pete

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At 8 km separation, Monarch did over 20K damage to my Bismarck, and I returned, full AP, 5K damage. Many flew under and over, about 3 hit I think. Surprise cap appearance of Monarch, so he got off the 1st salvo, must have been two CITs at same time.

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On 1/13/2019 at 2:22 PM, Ericson38 said:

At 8 km separation, Monarch did over 20K damage to my Bismarck, and I returned, full AP, 5K damage. Many flew under and over, about 3 hit I think. Surprise cap appearance of Monarch, so he got off the 1st salvo, must have been two CITs at same time.

It could very well have just been a bunch of Full AP Pens by Monarch.  While the Tech Tree RN BB short fused AP shells make it hard for them to land citadels on Battleships, it also means they get fewer Overpens.  RN BBs with AP can aim for upper hull / base superstructure and get lots of AP Pens, and those can hurt badly.

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Well I saw it again yesterday, Monarch shot at my Iowa first in contested cap, AP, about 70 degrees off the centerline (90 being perfect broadside). Waited for it, and yes, about 10K on Iowa. I returned a little more than 1/2 that to him on first return salvo. I have decided to eventually work into a Monarch now, based on the two encounters.

Finally got to 17 pt cap on the Iowa later yesterday, and had a brawl where I landed 157 secondary shots, now that the captain has the very useful AR skill. That 20% increase at low health comes into its own when you get surrounded. I run Secondary upgrade in slot 3, and cap skills BFT and AFT. Slot 6 has dispersion upgrade.

Edited by Ericson38

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Hey

I continue to run my Vanguard but it's still a rather under performing premium not worth buying.  The ship handles well, guns handle decently but the guns are a huge let down (supposedly 2.0 sigma) but they don't seem that accurate and they just don't do any real damage.  It feel much closer to a T7 boat than T8.  The only ship that sucks worse at T8 is the Kii.  I would much rather puty up with the wonky guns and over pens of the Roma than Vanguard.  Don't buy it!

 

Pete

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On 1/15/2019 at 3:42 AM, HazeGrayUnderway said:

It could very well have just been a bunch of Full AP Pens by Monarch.  While the Tech Tree RN BB short fused AP shells make it hard for them to land citadels on Battleships, it also means they get fewer Overpens.  RN BBs with AP can aim for upper hull / base superstructure and get lots of AP Pens, and those can hurt badly.

Have been testing Monarch in PTS 8.2.0 and its AP hits harder than I think the Iowa or Bismarck does. Plus the dispersion is low, so many hits count for something. I am definitely impressed with it.

Update: I traded in KGV for the Monarch yesterday, with 16 pt captain transferred over. With the longer 18.1 km fire director and base hull and engine, along with no concealment module (yet), I'm doing better than with maxed out sec build Bismarck (45 K average damage in 16 games versus 42K in 241 games).

Even though only 18.1 km gun range, these hit what they are pointed at (out of 23 BBs, it has my best hit ratio). Only using AP, shorter range but hit harder ( a little faster and flatter) with a little more potential damage than Bismarck, makes all the difference in the world. Plus dispersion is lower. 

Yesterday in T8-9-10 tears of the desert battle sank 4 ships, 96K damage. Best Bismarck battle was 136K damage, 3 sunk, but this was not a T8-10 battle.

Bismarck looks to be better generally in overall specs (speed, HP, gun range, secondaries) but I currently like the A hull Monarch more.

Maybe the French ones are the best at this tier, but I can't chase all the BB lines, and am happy with the Brit line. 

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On 3/10/2019 at 9:19 AM, Ericson38 said:

Have been testing Monarch in PTS 8.2.0 and its AP hits harder than I think the Iowa or Bismarck does. Plus the dispersion is low, so many hits count for something. I am definitely impressed with it.

Update: I traded in KGV for the Monarch yesterday, with 16 pt captain transferred over. With the longer 18.1 km fire director and base hull and engine, along with no concealment module (yet), I'm doing better than with maxed out sec build Bismarck (45 K average damage in 16 games versus 42K in 241 games).

Even though only 18.1 km gun range, these hit what they are pointed at (out of 23 BBs, it has my best hit ratio). Only using AP, shorter range but hit harder ( a little faster and flatter) with a little more potential damage than Bismarck, makes all the difference in the world. Plus dispersion is lower. 

Yesterday in T8-9-10 tears of the desert battle sank 4 ships, 96K damage. Best Bismarck battle was 136K damage, 3 sunk, but this was not a T8-10 battle.

Bismarck looks to be better generally in overall specs (speed, HP, gun range, secondaries) but I currently like the A hull Monarch more.

Maybe the French ones are the best at this tier, but I can't chase all the BB lines, and am happy with the Brit line. 

The catch with German BBs are their specialization towards brawls.

+ Vastly superior secondaries compared to RN BBs.

+ German BB Turtlebacks.

+ Lots of competitive speed.

 

But main battery reliability at range is a common weakness with them.  GK in Tier X alleviates this to a degree by having 12 rifles, but she still gets wonky at times.  IJN, USN, RN BBs are Main Battery focused ships.  The advantages of brawling / stand off combat are muddled in lower and mid tiers but at high tier, stand off wins.  Slap on ASM1 on Monarch and you're just fine in a Tier X game and will be relevant at all times.  Bismarck / Tirpitz in a Tier X game with Secondary Spec, far less so, until the match develops where BB brawling is finally a valid choice.

 

Monarch also has great BB concealment.  You should be able to control your engagements, unlike poor concealment BBs like IJN & German.

Edited by HazeGrayUnderway

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If Vanguard's secondaries were buffed, in keeping with her Warspite cousin, then she'd be a real fun ship!  Not a brawler, but quick harasser.

 

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16 hours ago, coldslaw said:

If Vanguard's secondaries were buffed, in keeping with her Warspite cousin, then she'd be a real fun ship!  Not a brawler, but quick harasser.

 
  •  

With that citadel on Vanguard, I dunno about that.

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On 12/23/2018 at 9:24 PM, Forgottensoldier117 said:

I’m curious which ship people feel is the better battleship? Which would you rather be in an up tier? 

Pffft, Vanguard hands down.

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On 12/24/2018 at 4:05 AM, WeekendLossStreak said:

Monarch's stealth is pretty much best in game. I find her easier to play when up tiered for some reason, my avg damage and win rate is higher as well.

Me too!  I thought it was just me  :-)

I think what happens is you play more carefully, and the up tier forces you to use HE, which is really what Monarch is best at anyway.  Also, I think the red team discounts you because hey, you're just T8.

 

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Never had Vanguard but the Monarch is amazing.  Play it like an IJN cruiser, use your stealth to get up close, turn, sneak attack the broadside of some poor sap then kite away.  Rinse and repeat.  Try not to spam the HE your AP is good used correctly, HE should just be for people that think they can get away with bow tanking.

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On 4/1/2019 at 12:58 PM, Danyir_Amore said:

Never had Vanguard but the Monarch is amazing.  Play it like an IJN cruiser, use your stealth to get up close, turn, sneak attack the broadside of some poor sap then kite away.  Rinse and repeat.  Try not to spam the HE your AP is good used correctly, HE should just be for people that think they can get away with bow tanking.

  As long as these RN BB's have been out, you'd think people would know better, lol.  14-15" HE hurts!!  and it doesn't care about your bow armor.

  I just fitted mine out and began playing it today.   So far, not too shabby.   I'd call it a "typical" RN BB- not the top of the heap, but not the bottom either.   It's a solid, steady contributor, not a flashy superstar.   They take plenty of damage, but still seem to survive long enough to put in a solid showing.

 I switch back and forth between ammo types so often, I'm strongly considering respeccing and adding Expert loader.   The AP does good work, and so does the HE.

  Lol- I may yet enjoy this grind!

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On 4/5/2019 at 9:30 PM, Fletcher7_1944 said:

  As long as these RN BB's have been out, you'd think people would know better, lol.  14-15" HE hurts!!  and it doesn't care about your bow armor.

  I just fitted mine out and began playing it today.   So far, not too shabby.   I'd call it a "typical" RN BB- not the top of the heap, but not the bottom either.   It's a solid, steady contributor, not a flashy superstar.   They take plenty of damage, but still seem to survive long enough to put in a solid showing.

 I switch back and forth between ammo types so often, I'm strongly considering respeccing and adding Expert loader.   The AP does good work, and so does the HE.

  Lol- I may yet enjoy this grind!

expert loader is very useful for the British line.

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