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Thoughts about the upcoming CV rework

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Hi guys. After watching the videos about new CV game play I noticed some negative things.

1- The planes are fast, very fast, they perma spot all the enemy team in a moment, that is bad, maybe the CV don't nuke a ship in one attack, but the rest of the team will do, is going to be the end of the stealth build???? They are trying to take out the CV "abuse" making it worst with that perma spotting??

2- In the old system, at one point of the game, CVs usually run out of planes and give the opportunity for an aggressive push to the rest of the players, now they print planes like nothing.

3- AA in the ships, with the rocket attacks, and HE bombs plus normal ship attacks, will be destroyed soon, ships will be defenseless against that never ending plane attack. 

4- The spotted ribbon, was a nice help for DD players and their economics, now CVs will take it all.

5- What is going to happen to the owners of premium CVs??. We bought those ships because special loads or something different about the main line. Doubloons back??

6- DDs will play more passive, because that perma spotting. I think DDs will change the game style to a CV hunt more than cap or spot.

In general, I think they are rushing to much this rework, they want more CV players, but this rush????, I don't know but looks like is going to be a big frustration for veteran and new players, we are going to need to expend a lot of money in change our commander skills and modules several times to make the ships playable again. Not everybody is going to do that and maybe we will lose players in the process.

I thing the CV rework is much bigger than just make more arcade the game style, affects a lot the rest of the ships, is a very big change in all the game and rushing it will make the things worst.

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7 minutes ago, R5gaming said:

1- The planes are fast, very fast, they perma spot all the enemy team in a moment, that is bad, maybe the CV don't nuke a ship in one attack, but the rest of the team will do, is going to be the end of the stealth build???? They are trying to take out the CV "abuse" making it worst with that perma spotting??

I think thats just down to the way the teams were laid out, when I was testing I was still spotting individual ships but occasionally the edge of a DD's Aircraft spot lined up closely with the edge of a BB's spotting range and I'd get a twofer, just because the DD was that much further in front. 

9 minutes ago, R5gaming said:

2- In the old system, at one point of the game, CVs usually run out of planes and give the opportunity for an aggressive push to the rest of the players, now they print planes like nothing.

But overall the planes do less damage, and you as a player have to ride with that one squadron until you run them out of ammo or recall them back to the carrier. A CV player can't control both sides of a map at once now other than spotting, and thats not nearly the hindrance it used to be IMO.

11 minutes ago, R5gaming said:

3- AA in the ships, with the rocket attacks, and HE bombs plus normal ship attacks, will be destroyed soon, ships will be defenseless against that never ending plane attack. 

I didn't find the rock attacks to be entirely detrimental to the life of your AA guns. They didn't do much damage as I recall and mostly just set fires. 

12 minutes ago, R5gaming said:

4- The spotted ribbon, was a nice help for DD players and their economics, now CVs will take it all.

They already do that anyway in the current state of the game. If there's a CV on your team he will always get his planes into position to spot first. 

12 minutes ago, R5gaming said:

5- What is going to happen to the owners of premium CVs??. We bought those ships because special loads or something different about the main line. Doubloons back??

Every Premium CV owner will get the opportunity to get a refund in doubloons for their carriers if they choose not to keep them after the rework goes live if my memory of Dev/WG posts serves me right. 

13 minutes ago, R5gaming said:

6- DDs will play more passive, because that perma spotting. I think DDs will change the game style to a CV hunt more than cap or spot.

like number 4, this already happens in games with CVs now. However, with the CV player having control over only one squadron, the likelihood that a CV player will focus on one flank to support his team means the players on the other flank will have a lot of room to play in until the CV player sends a squadron under his control there. 

15 minutes ago, R5gaming said:

In general, I think they are rushing to much this rework.....[snip]

I think the rework has been in progress for a long time now. The testing went well and they will fire it off to live at patch 8.0 regardless. After its out they will watch it closely and balance it as we go along. As long as the mechanics are solid and not rage inducing for either side, I think it will overall be a nice change. 

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1 hour ago, R5gaming said:

Hi guys. After watching the videos about new CV game play I noticed some negative things.

1- The planes are fast, very fast, they perma spot all the enemy team in a moment, that is bad, maybe the CV don't nuke a ship in one attack, but the rest of the team will do, is going to be the end of the stealth build???? They are trying to take out the CV "abuse" making it worst with that perma spotting??

If a CV is perma spotting, it's not doing any damage, you can no longer orbit around with empty planes, and he's perma spotting one location.

1 hour ago, R5gaming said:

2- In the old system, at one point of the game, CVs usually run out of planes and give the opportunity for an aggressive push to the rest of the players, now they print planes like nothing.

The reworked system, you laugh at the CV, and push whenever you want, it's not like the CV can punish you for it. Just push in a group and be immune. Over the length of a match, a CV will probably launch as many aircraft as before, maybe slightly less.

1 hour ago, R5gaming said:

3- AA in the ships, with the rocket attacks, and HE bombs plus normal ship attacks, will be destroyed soon, ships will be defenseless against that never ending plane attack. 

Rockets were generally ineffective, good for resetting caps. If a CV used them to shoot off most of your AA guns, that is going to be his accomplishment for the match, 20 minutes isn't enough time to do that and kill you. Far better to pick on someone that has been on the receiving end of a Cleveland and has the AA guns pre-stripped.

1 hour ago, R5gaming said:

4- The spotted ribbon, was a nice help for DD players and their economics, now CVs will take it all.

Go back to question one, If a CV spends the first few minutes of the game spotting, it's not attacking. Also, there's more spotting ribbons available, as the CV can't continuously spot the entire map for the whole match. A CV can spot everyone, start attacking stuff, lose sight of everything it's not attacking, a some short amount of time later all those ships can be spotted again for ribbons. I'd think as a DD, that would be kinda nice, not worrying about getting spotted by say a surprise  pack of radar cruisers that will kill your DD is soon as they think you're in radar range.

1 hour ago, R5gaming said:

6- DDs will play more passive, because that perma spotting. I think DDs will change the game style to a CV hunt more than cap or spot.

DD's are better off, a CV perma spotting you isn't paying the bills if nobody's killing you. You're better off.

1 hour ago, R5gaming said:

In general, I think they are rushing to much this rework, they want more CV players, but this rush????, I don't know but looks like is going to be a big frustration for veteran and new players, we are going to need to expend a lot of money in change our commander skills and modules several times to make the ships playable again. Not everybody is going to do that and maybe we will lose players in the process.

I thing the CV rework is much bigger than just make more arcade the game style, affects a lot the rest of the ships, is a very big change in all the game and rushing it will make the things worst.

Yes, the CV rework is being rushed. They went from, here's an idea we want to show you, to here's a couple of tests, and they're going to throw it on live with a minimal amount of balancing and fix it after it goes live very quickly. They took a while to code it. I personally don't see enough players staying with CV's long enough for WG to get the information to actually balance them with the state they were in on the test. A month after it goes live, there will be fewer players CV's than before, because the hardcore CV players will have left, and the new players will have played the new CV's a little, and not have found a reason to keep playing them.

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got ninjaed twice!:fish_palm:

 

2 things

 

1: I'm a bit concerned on the umnlimted planes bit but that can be fixed with an across the board buff to aa (nothing big, just like 10%):cap_rambo:

 

2: i"ll be keeping my enterprise reguardless  because that ship is an important part of USN history and I have faith that Wg will give her some special benifit to make her stand out amongst the other CVs at her tier.:fish_book:

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27 minutes ago, SgtBeltfed said:

Yes, the CV rework is being rushed. They went from, here's an idea we want to show you, to here's a couple of tests, and they're going to throw it on live with a minimal amount of balancing and fix it after it goes live very quickly. They took a while to code it. I personally don't see enough players staying with CV's long enough for WG to get the information to actually balance them with the state they were in on the test. A month after it goes live, there will be fewer players CV's than before, because the hardcore CV players will have left, and the new players will have played the new CV's a little, and not have found a reason to keep playing them.

I like this game, playing it since beta, this is my second account because I moved to NA little after the release of the game, I was living in EU before, I saw a lot of changes in the game, in some changes I lost a lot of in game friends in the process. Now is coming a bigger one, I know I will lose some more in game friends, I hope WG will react quick enough to don't mess up the game. (WOP and WOT are in bad shape for bad decisions).

 

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1 hour ago, R5gaming said:

I like this game, playing it since beta, this is my second account because I moved to NA little after the release of the game, I was living in EU before, I saw a lot of changes in the game, in some changes I lost a lot of in game friends in the process. Now is coming a bigger one, I know I will lose some more in game friends, I hope WG will react quick enough to don't mess up the game. (WOP and WOT are in bad shape for bad decisions).

 

Sadly, I see the CV rework going south about two weeks after release. For new players, that might have had a chance if this was better thought out and better balanced, WG has about 5 games. If a new player is feels useless in a ship 5 games in a row, they aren't going to stick with it. It will be even worse if they check the forums or Youtube, and they find out what every bad player wants to hear is true "it's not them, it's the ship". The new player experience with the tier 4 CV's is that bad. You are more useful to your team in any other ship, even playing it badly, as compared to bringing a tier 4 CV.

For the veteran CV drivers, they lost their influence. Once their win rates plummet towards the server average, they will do one of two things: swap to whatever ship has the most influence or else the leave the game entirely for greener pastures. Don't be shocked to see some of those CV drivers in destroyers, and to see the destroyers on the chopping block soon enough for having too much influence.

I'm not sure where WoWP went wrong, I played it a little before it's complete rebuild, it was a meh game, get flown though by a player or bot at the first sign of the enemy, lose your airplane for 15 to 20 minutes, rinse and repeat. I found it more fun after it's rebuild, pop in and shoot it out for as long as I'd like, then go do something else.

WoT made some mistakes very early on, premium ammo, preferential matchmaking, bad jumps in tier, ect.. that would have been easy to fix early on, are now major surgery, with a good chance of the patient dying on the table. WoWS learned from one of these (no premium ammo) and the tier 4 protected match making is at least tier wide, and in the low tiers. 

I'm gonna miss the rare good CV games from early on, from back when we could have multiple tier 8 CV's on each side, I remember one game where the CV's circumnavigated the map on opposite sides, and a couple DD's playing peek-a-boo in the smoke in the middle of the map looked up and stopped what they were doing to watch the air battle over their heads. In the end we lost because the team didn't get it done, the CV's were ineffective because we were making it rain burning airplanes over most of the map.

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On 12/23/2018 at 2:43 PM, SgtBeltfed said:

Sadly, I see the CV rework going south about two weeks after release. For new players, that might have had a chance if this was better thought out and better balanced, WG has about 5 games. If a new player is feels useless in a ship 5 games in a row, they aren't going to stick with it. It will be even worse if they check the forums or Youtube, and they find out what every bad player wants to hear is true "it's not them, it's the ship". The new player experience with the tier 4 CV's is that bad. You are more useful to your team in any other ship, even playing it badly, as compared to bringing a tier 4 CV.

For the veteran CV drivers, they lost their influence. Once their win rates plummet towards the server average, they will do one of two things: swap to whatever ship has the most influence or else the leave the game entirely for greener pastures. Don't be shocked to see some of those CV drivers in destroyers, and to see the destroyers on the chopping block soon enough for having too much influence.

I'm not sure where WoWP went wrong, I played it a little before it's complete rebuild, it was a meh game, get flown though by a player or bot at the first sign of the enemy, lose your airplane for 15 to 20 minutes, rinse and repeat. I found it more fun after it's rebuild, pop in and shoot it out for as long as I'd like, then go do something else.

WoT made some mistakes very early on, premium ammo, preferential matchmaking, bad jumps in tier, ect.. that would have been easy to fix early on, are now major surgery, with a good chance of the patient dying on the table. WoWS learned from one of these (no premium ammo) and the tier 4 protected match making is at least tier wide, and in the low tiers. 

I'm gonna miss the rare good CV games from early on, from back when we could have multiple tier 8 CV's on each side, I remember one game where the CV's circumnavigated the map on opposite sides, and a couple DD's playing peek-a-boo in the smoke in the middle of the map looked up and stopped what they were doing to watch the air battle over their heads. In the end we lost because the team didn't get it done, the CV's were ineffective because we were making it rain burning airplanes over most of the map.

if you ask me WG should have kept the RTS style of gameplay for the carriers instead of this brand new thing we are about to receive.

All WG had to do was buff squadrons numbers for usn carriers just enough for rough or equal parity against the IJN carriers, possibly make planes unlimited so as to not make the carrier a useless floating battering ram once the planes were all gone, remove strafe and make fighters do escort roles or something defensive to either protect ships or attacking aircraft and buff dive bombers (via make the manual drop marker a small circle just like graf spree's planes)

on the outside the carrier rework looks impressive and cool but if one dives deeper to take a closer look it is more disappointing than it looks.

i just hope this does not end up the same way warplanes did but my gut feeling tells me it will just look at how WoT is doing right now! them russians seemed to have their priorities mixed up and crooked at the moment... 

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7 hours ago, The_Big_Red_1 said:

if you ask me WG should have kept the RTS style of gameplay for the carriers instead of this brand new thing we are about to receive.

All WG had to do was buff squadrons numbers for usn carriers just enough for rough or equal parity against the IJN carriers, possibly make planes unlimited so as to not make the carrier a useless floating battering ram once the planes were all gone, remove strafe and make fighters do escort roles or something defensive to either protect ships or attacking aircraft and buff dive bombers (via make the manual drop marker a small circle just like graf spree's planes)

on the outside the carrier rework looks impressive and cool but if one dives deeper to take a closer look it is more disappointing than it looks.

i just hope this does not end up the same way warplanes did but my gut feeling tells me it will just look at how WoT is doing right now! them russians seemed to have their priorities mixed up and crooked at the moment... 

IMO ... The Devs listened to the "wrong" part of the community (more especifically the BB player that play alone/separeted from the main group and become easy targets). I'll give just one chance to this rework ... after that, maybe i'll sell my Shokaku :Smile_sad:

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25 minutes ago, Italo_Bandeira said:

IMO ... The Devs listened to the "wrong" part of the community (more especifically the BB player that play alone/separeted from the main group and become easy targets). I'll give just one chance to this rework ... after that, maybe i'll sell my Shokaku :Smile_sad:

If I don't completely lose interest and go play something else, I'll keep my CV's around for missions that require spotting X number of ships, or maybe shooting down X number of planes. If they ever do a "CV rework, lets try plan B" after this one fails, I'll still have mine.

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15 hours ago, Masingi said:

I have played the rework every day. I cant get enough of it. I am back to being a CV main.

Why is that?  Is it easier for you to do damage?  Is it more fun? What?

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17 hours ago, Capt_Apollo said:

Why is that?  Is it easier for you to do damage?  Is it more fun? What?

Its actually harder to deal damage now,  but you're more involved in the process.  Fun is more subjective,  obviously,  but this version puts you more into the action.  It is pretty exciting to fly in to attack a target with all the flak flying around.  Dive bombers feel more satisfying now,  hitting a target with all six of your bombs at T10 is quite a rush and does a good chunk of damage.  Torpedoes are less satisfying now since you don't get the HUGE hits of current but once you get the hang of it,  but it does feel pretty good to circle your camera back to watch them slam into the enemy.

At the end of the day,  if you prefer a more actiony feel then you're going to prefer this version,  but if you prefer the more tactical feel of the RTS then this may not be as fun for you.

Edited by Palladia
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What I have seen on you tube as far as the AA changes go is it is absolutely freaking worthless. The range is reduced the damage is a joke. Planes can be on fire and still fly in formation and complete their strike. If you lose a plane it doesn't matter. I have yet to see a single plane shot down before it can drop. That is retarded. So we get pounded then maybe after the plane is done we can shoot it down but that has no meaning either because of unlimited planes do you russians realize how stupid that looks and sounds. I am livid I didn't spend a dime for premium time or new ships this Christmas. Can you figure out why wargaming because whats the point of investing in a game that I am likely quitting in a few months because of this crap. You guys do realize AA in ww2 became so effective the Japanese gave up on strikes and resorted to crashing planes into ships. You wouldn't know that with the AA tests Notser has done this week. The zone idea is also just awful  planes come in for less then 2 seconds with your new super speed but you want a bb to wait 15 seconds to switch sides. Id fire that employee who came up with that but if your feeling generous demote his [edited].

The catapult fighters you reduced from 6 mins to like a min and half now you plan on reducing that to 30 seconds. How is it the fuel tanks are so small the plane last 30 seconds but a cv could keep his up the entire 20 min game if he choose. If you are going to reduce the cat fighters to 30 seconds then the cool down needs to be reduced to even less than that. Or maybe the double fighter skill means one is being launched as one is recovered and the ship never goes with out air cover.

If you guys want to do the whole hit point thing on planes you can't do it half [edited]your going to need to break the planes down the way you do ships and parts of them will have to reflect the damage. If the engines on fire then I'm sorry the planes lost if the bombs or torpedoes are damaged then it can't drop them. If the rudders are knocked out it can't turn. Is there damage on a plane that isn't critical of course but there isn't much of that. Direct large cal AA hits are not going to do a few hundred hps of damage to a plane they are going to instantly kill it. If your really intent on going down this road then American ships get their proximity fuses and you basically need to increase their AA damage by about 400%. Hopefully some of the CV players can look past their greed for this new power and think through the results on the community.

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It is terrible. Just played a few T10 with Hindy against T10 Jap CV he burned me down used all my heals and everything and with an AA rating of 81 i didnt shoot down a single aircraft. He must have sent at least 8 waves against me and i couldnt shoot down a single aircraft. He ended with 5 kills and was top EXP earner even though his team lost. This is going very badly and its the same meta, if your CV is good you win if he's bad you lose except now its harder than hell to shoot down planes. i should mention it was on the Test Server so this is new CV gameplay.

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7 hours ago, linusboy2118 said:

It is terrible. Just played a few T10 with Hindy against T10 Jap CV he burned me down used all my heals and everything and with an AA rating of 81 i didnt shoot down a single aircraft. He must have sent at least 8 waves against me and i couldnt shoot down a single aircraft. He ended with 5 kills and was top EXP earner even though his team lost. This is going very badly and its the same meta, if your CV is good you win if he's bad you lose except now its harder than hell to shoot down planes. i should mention it was on the Test Server so this is new CV gameplay.

If you take a good look at your AA setup, you will find that your guns don't actually have much chance to fire.

Your only defense close in is your short range AA, which is pathetic. You have medium range AA making decent flak bursts. This runs out to about 5 km. You also have heavy AA mounts...the minimum range on this is 5km, the maximum range is 5.2km...
 

...that's right, 1/3rd of your AA armament (more like half since the flak bursts seem to be the most useful part of your defense) only fires for the miniscule amount of time the enemy planes are within a 200 meter circle of your ship.

This is true of most German ships, and bafflingly so...considering it should be obvious to a QA review of the changes.

If you want better AA performance...try a ship without short range AA mounts...and with medium and heavy mounts with well defined range sets. These seem to do well (Republique, Conqueror, Henri IV, Daring, Z-52).

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On 12/23/2018 at 1:43 PM, R5gaming said:

Hi guys. After watching the videos about new CV game play I noticed some negative things.

1- The planes are fast, very fast, they perma spot all the enemy team in a moment, that is bad, maybe the CV don't nuke a ship in one attack, but the rest of the team will do, is going to be the end of the stealth build???? They are trying to take out the CV "abuse" making it worst with that perma spotting??

2- In the old system, at one point of the game, CVs usually run out of planes and give the opportunity for an aggressive push to the rest of the players, now they print planes like nothing.

3- AA in the ships, with the rocket attacks, and HE bombs plus normal ship attacks, will be destroyed soon, ships will be defenseless against that never ending plane attack. 

4- The spotted ribbon, was a nice help for DD players and their economics, now CVs will take it all.

5- What is going to happen to the owners of premium CVs??. We bought those ships because special loads or something different about the main line. Doubloons back??

6- DDs will play more passive, because that perma spotting. I think DDs will change the game style to a CV hunt more than cap or spot.

In general, I think they are rushing to much this rework, they want more CV players, but this rush????, I don't know but looks like is going to be a big frustration for veteran and new players, we are going to need to expend a lot of money in change our commander skills and modules several times to make the ships playable again. Not everybody is going to do that and maybe we will lose players in the process.

I thing the CV rework is much bigger than just make more arcade the game style, affects a lot the rest of the ships, is a very big change in all the game and rushing it will make the things worst.

The CV rework does not solve the main issues with CVs, and instead changes the engaging and balancing parts of the class.

For one, what made CVs engaging and unique, that being complete tactical control and the reliance on your skill, is gone. Instead we rely on essentially attacking, rather than playing the complicated game of defense and offense CV players are used to.

Secondly, the rework makes it easier to do all the most hated things about CVs, while removing what made them hard or balanced. AA is still weak, and attacks are still high damage, spotting is easier than ever, and  without fighters or limited hangars, carriers have little opposition in this. Now it is essentially damage farming surface ships, while at a viewpoint that makes it harder to judge the tactical situation of the map. Adding the speed of engagement, and we lose the relaxed tone that drew me to Cvs. 

Now we'll have more CVs, but they're low effort, overpowered CVs, that focus on one thing, killing your ships. That's it.

I don't know why this decision was taken, but at least I'll have my cruisers to fall back on.

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