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Ensign_Cthulhu

CV vexing question.

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I currently have the Bogue. Come 0.8.0, the Bogue is leaving forever; unlike Zuiho, she's not going to be moving into the planned "alternative" carrier tree.

I have two options; the first is to take the plunge and grind her out as a challenge and a last hurrah to RTS play (in which case I apologise in advance to the Random teams I'll be on), and get the Independence before the rework drops.

The second is to sit on her, get compensated in XP when she's pulled from the game, and take advantage of the fact that the overall grind from tier 4 to tier 6 is actually going to get smaller.

At the moment, I'm sort of leaning toward the latter. Waiting to see exactly what happens and accepting compensation is probably wise given that we will be getting British carriers as well, and I WILL want to try those. 

 

 

Please don't turn this thread into a rehash of rework good vs. rework bad arguments held elsewhere; I'm mostly interested in hearing from career carrier players who WILL be continuing and will be doing their best to optimise the effects of the rework.

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Just play it in Co-op.

With any kind of competence and not throwing away your planes you can carry even a sack of potatoes to a win with Bogue.

Less muss, less fuss, and no worries about bad habits because of the changes.

(700+ Co-op games in Bogue, and one of the main reasons I dislike the changes.)

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1 hour ago, Ensign_Cthulhu said:

I currently have the Bogue. Come 0.8.0, the Bogue is leaving forever; unlike Zuiho, she's not going to be moving into the planned "alternative" carrier tree.

I have two options; the first is to take the plunge and grind her out as a challenge and a last hurrah to RTS play (in which case I apologise in advance to the Random teams I'll be on), and get the Independence before the rework drops.

The second is to sit on her, get compensated in XP when she's pulled from the game, and take advantage of the fact that the overall grind from tier 4 to tier 6 is actually going to get smaller.

At the moment, I'm sort of leaning toward the latter. Waiting to see exactly what happens and accepting compensation is probably wise given that we will be getting British carriers as well, and I WILL want to try those. 

 

 

Please don't turn this thread into a rehash of rework good vs. rework bad arguments held elsewhere; I'm mostly interested in hearing from career carrier players who WILL be continuing and will be doing their best to optimise the effects of the rework.

In theory, at least get enough XP on the Bogeu so that after the "rework" you'll be sitting on a Ranger at all costs. You do not want to be in the Langley after the "rework" drops if they don't radically change the tier 4 CV's between the special test and when the rework hits. Both tier 4 CV's make you feel completely useless, the tier 6's are at least fully functional, and are somewhat representative of the other 4 tech tree CV's.

Not like those of us that are losing CV's are going to get them back when they get added back in. We'll be regrinding ships we used to have, for you it will be a new experience. 

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54 minutes ago, SgtBeltfed said:

 You do not want to be in the Langley after the "rework" drops if they don't radically change the tier 4 CV's between the special test and when the rework hits. Both tier 4 CV's make you feel completely useless 

Is this because of the lack of torpedoes? I was a bit vexed by that as well, but newer players at T3 and T4 who are driving ships with absolutely no AA will appreciate having one less thing on the battlefield (more like three fewer things, once Hermes arrives) that can give them a permaflood.

As it is, with only rockets and bombs, the T4 carriers will be something akin to missile ships firing very, VERY slow command/TV-guided weapons.

Your point about having a T6 carrier is well made, especially since there won't be a T5 to minimally qualify for Dailies points and missions. However, absent the possession of sufficient free XP, I WILL be obliged to be in the T4 Hermes anyway, so there is an argument to be made for suffering through the rest of the new T4/6 grind in US carriers as well. From an evil perspective, it will let others sort out the bugs and give me a better idea of which line should be ground first.

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At a guess the Bogue will be replaced by its replacement in the new tree.

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I'm just going to take my premium carriers to Co-Op to knock off the snowflakes.  I've otherwise mothballed all my CVs, including selling Langley and Hosho back, till the rework comes.  I hope GZ comes up on sale after the rework.  I have the others.

Edited by mavfin87

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1 hour ago, BrushWolf said:

At a guess the Bogue will be replaced by its replacement in the new tree.

It's not really being replaced, when the new line comes out, tier 6 will probably be the Independence,  dunno what tier 8 will be (Yorktown would fit nicely) and tier 10 will be Essex. It's place in the tech tree is just plain gone. Zuiho gets to get uptiered, which isn't so bad as at least she's mobile, same with Hiryu and Taiho.

1 hour ago, Ensign_Cthulhu said:

Is this because of the lack of torpedoes? I was a bit vexed by that as well, but newer players at T3 and T4 who are driving ships with absolutely no AA will appreciate having one less thing on the battlefield (more like three fewer things, once Hermes arrives) that can give them a permaflood.

As it is, with only rockets and bombs, the T4 carriers will be something akin to missile ships firing very, VERY slow command/TV-guided weapons.

Your point about having a T6 carrier is well made, especially since there won't be a T5 to minimally qualify for Dailies points and missions. However, absent the possession of sufficient free XP, I WILL be obliged to be in the T4 Hermes anyway, so there is an argument to be made for suffering through the rest of the new T4/6 grind in US carriers as well. From an evil perspective, it will let others sort out the bugs and give me a better idea of which line should be ground first.

I won't pin it specifically on lack of torpedoes, but lack of weapons that with sufficient skill are almost assured to cause damage. As it is, WG may have deemed torpedoes too effective against ships with questionable AA, which leaves the tier 4 CV's eating dirt, which I might add, they get to do for  both tier 4 and tier 5. It's the same logic that US Navy CV's use on live right now, WG wants you to use dive bombers as your main source of damage, but the drop circle is so large you'll miss most of the time anyway, so your main source of damage is your one flight of torpedo bombers. Not a new player experience that's gonna inspire players to stick with CV's.

I can take a Mikasa, and drive up close enough that the 12" guns will hit the target, I'll probably be over-penetrating though the superstructure because the guns won't depress far enough, but I will at least hit the target. I might be close enough to board the other guy if it was possible in game, but it's always an option. If I was smart and swapped to HE, I'd be better off.

Not so with tier 4 CV's, it's theoretically possible to go though a full 20 minute match, aim everything perfectly, and do zero damage. It's not uncommon to do everything right, and cause 5k damage or less over the entire match. It's possible for 2 tier 4 CV's to tank each other for an entire match, unable to kill each other because they just don't have the output, especially if they are IJN CV's (in the event they even hit, they just overpen everything.) In the test, there were no Katori's, Yubari's or Kongo's driving around, they're gonna murder the tier 4 CV's aircraft. Life's gonna be rough on tier 4 CV's. 

Edited by SgtBeltfed

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6 hours ago, BrushWolf said:

At a guess the Bogue will be replaced by its replacement in the new tree.

Independence? Like someone said...?

Yay. Such excitement as I feel can hardly be contained.

At least Bogue has 2 x 127mms for self defense. Top hull Indy has jack. Just about the easiest xp pinata of them all under the new system.

5 hours ago, SgtBeltfed said:

It's not really being replaced, when the new line comes out, tier 6 will probably be the Independence,  dunno what tier 8 will be (Yorktown would fit nicely) and tier 10 will be Essex. It's place in the tech tree is just plain gone. Zuiho gets to get uptiered, which isn't so bad as at least she's mobile, same with Hiryu and Taiho.

Because too much whining and not enough doing in advance of threats.

Almost never had trouble with Bogue's slow speed. I had more trouble with teams going to hell, but my speed wasn't much of an issue.

And about Independence... You know; that 'faster, better' carrier?

I can't even count the number of time in T5/T6 4 carrier games my 'poor, slow, helpless' Bogue soldiered on after the 'better' independence was sunk.

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11 minutes ago, Estimated_Prophet said:

Independence? Like someone said...?

Yay. Such excitement as I feel can hardly be contained.

At least Bogue has 2 x 127mms for self defense. Top hull Indy has jack. Just about the easiest xp pinata of them all under the new system.

Because too much whining and not enough doing in advance of threats.

Almost never had trouble with Bogue's slow speed. I had more trouble with teams going to hell, but my speed wasn't much of an issue.

And about Independence... You know; that 'faster, better' carrier?

I can't even count the number of time in T5/T6 4 carrier games my 'poor, slow, helpless' Bogue soldiered on after the 'better' independence was sunk.

CVL-22 was a much better carrier than any of the Jeep carriers in reality and the fact that it is not even as good as a Jeep carrier in the game is because of individuals that are not working together leaving it out hanging in the breeze. Carriers should always have an escort even if it is only a couple of bot ships that stay with the carrier and only attack when the enemy is within a set range.

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53 minutes ago, Estimated_Prophet said:

Independence? Like someone said...?

Yay. Such excitement as I feel can hardly be contained.

At least Bogue has 2 x 127mms for self defense. Top hull Indy has jack. Just about the easiest xp pinata of them all under the new system.

Because too much whining and not enough doing in advance of threats.

Almost never had trouble with Bogue's slow speed. I had more trouble with teams going to hell, but my speed wasn't much of an issue.

And about Independence... You know; that 'faster, better' carrier?

I can't even count the number of time in T5/T6 4 carrier games my 'poor, slow, helpless' Bogue soldiered on after the 'better' independence was sunk.

And bumping her up to tier 6, and taking her into Killer Whale or Aegis? She'd be roadkill. She wouldn't be paired with Independence's, she'd get paired with Lexington's and Shokaku's in PvP, that just sounds painful.

Plus, this rework isn't about smart players, that plan ahead and overcome problems like, "being slow"

This is about dumbing down gameplay to the point where anyone that can click a mouse can play them.

If it was done for smart players, that figure out the in's and out's of what they're doing, they would have just fixed the UI issues and adjusted the system we had.

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59 minutes ago, SgtBeltfed said:

And bumping her up to tier 6, and taking her into Killer Whale or Aegis? She'd be roadkill. She wouldn't be paired with Independence's, she'd get paired with Lexington's and Shokaku's in PvP, that just sounds painful.

Plus, this rework isn't about smart players, that plan ahead and overcome problems like, "being slow"

This is about dumbing down gameplay to the point where anyone that can click a mouse can play them.

If it was done for smart players, that figure out the in's and out's of what they're doing, they would have just fixed the UI issues and adjusted the system we had.

Not disagreeing, other than to the extent I resent the hell out of WG for taking away my Bogue.

The one I jumped into carriers feet first with after spending the fxp to get it; the one that basically taught me to carrier; the one I got my first ‘Clear Sky’ in, with a STRIKE Bogue, not that cancerous, lazy play AS Bogue, (AA and tail-gunners all the way baby,) the ONLY SHIP I’ve used in any significant way in PvP, PvE, and Ranked; the only ship I have over 1,000 games in, (nothing else even tops 400,) and basically the only ship I’ve ever consistently had fun in...

...but then ‘bad’ ships and I seem to get along, despite the seemingly endlesss legions of those complaining about them, so what do I know. :Smile_sceptic:

 

Edited by Estimated_Prophet

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