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MrDeaf

So, IMO, Operation Aegis is completely ruined...

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I honestly don't think it's possible to complete anymore in randumbs.

with competent 7 man div, sure, but the operation is still pretty challenging

The problem is that DDs were pretty useless in this op to begin with, and with the introduction of more BBs replacing CVs, the squishy cruisers have also become quite pointless. This means that you really only have 3 effective ships, unless you stack 4 cruisers with smoke, like quadruple stack leanders/perths/huanghes.

Having to stack ships wholly defeats the purpose of "accessibility" of the operation, which in turn completely defeats the purpose of an operation where you can bring whatever you want.

Edited by MrDeaf
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My personal challenge is to kill the second wave (the one that comes from the north) solo.  I think my best results have been with Leander (smoke and ap for citadel hits) and budyonny.  But budyonny and nurnberg are just too vulnerable.  If I succeed, it will probably be in leander.

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Typical random groups in this Operation will usually complete it, but the 1 optional that always fails is killing the 3 BBs.  Even worse, guys going for the BB optionals up north get into a nasty crossfire.  They attack the Kongo & Ishizuchi and angle towards them, Fuso off to the side gets broadside shots.  365mm x12 dice rolls to your sides is a loser's bet.  You angle towards Fuso, Kongo and Ishizuchi get broadside shots, and Kongo hits consistently.  I've seen some Cruisers, Destroyers try to camp the islands west / southwest of Kongo & Ishizuchi but they all have been non-factors.  From there the 2 BBs sail away and disregard them.  Torps are useless against these targets sailing away from them.

 

Cruisers trying to tackle the BBs at this stage of the match, unless they've got smoke, will get rekt.

 

If doing this with random groups, the best I can do is ensure mission completion and all the optionals.  Except for the 3 BBs one.  Too much to ask for with a random group, so 4 stars for me is typical.

 

Compared to the old version of this with CVs in it, Cruisers are just about the most useless ships, unless they're Leander, Perth, Huang He who have smoke to protect themselves and still fight.  All the others are useless.

Edited by HazeGrayUnderway

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I beat it twice last night in both battles I played, both in different ships to dust the snowflakes off.  Both games were random groups.  The secret is not to be too aggressive as a solo player.  Use range and plenty of changing direction and speed, just like random battles.  You'll live longer and deal more damage towards the end game.

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12 minutes ago, MrDeaf said:

The problem is that DDs were pretty useless in this op to begin with

Sorry, I beg to differ with you.  We prefer to take at least one DD on our Ops teams.  Clueless potato with a DD, sure.  But when that potato finally gets a clue, he can contribute well.

 

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1 minute ago, iDuckman said:

Sorry, I beg to differ with you.  We prefer to take at least one DD on our Ops teams.  Clueless potato with a DD, sure.  But when that potato finally gets a clue, he can contribute well.

 

Doing anything with a premade team with voice comms is easy.  It's the random group with zero control of ship composition, coordination things really become an issue.  The DDs I see here are all useless.

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10 minutes ago, HazeGrayUnderway said:

guys going for the BB optionals up north get into a nasty crossfire.  They attack the Kongo & Ishizuchi and angle towards them, Fuso off to the side gets broadside shots

I've found that going for the NW BBs is most effective when you head up there on the western side of the islands.  That means leaving early or having the rest of the team let the convoy progress farther south so the BB spawn is delayed.  Attacking from the S and W, preferably in or from smoke, avoids the Fuso problem.

Add:  Yes, torps launched from there must be fired from a relatively close range.  Adding a CV to the team can multiply the surface torp effectiveness nicely.  I'm finally figuring out how to drive Leander in this Op (now that I've unlocked Fiji - ain't it always thus?).  Single-firing her torps gets more hits.

 

Edited by iDuckman

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3 minutes ago, HazeGrayUnderway said:

The DDs I see here are all useless.

My survey of random DDs in this Op correlates with yours.  Suspiciously well.

 

 

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1 minute ago, HazeGrayUnderway said:

Typical random groups in this Operation will usually complete it, but the 1 optional that always fails is killing the 3 BBs.  Even worse, guys going for the BB optionals up north get into a nasty crossfire.  They attack the Kongo & Ishizuchi and angle towards them, Fuso off to the side gets broadside shots.  365mm x12 dice rolls to your sides is a loser's bet.  You angle towards Fuso, Kongo and Ishizuchi get broadside shots, and Kongo hits consistently.  I've seen some Cruisers, Destroyers try to camp the islands west / southwest of Kongo & Ishizuchi but they all have been non-factors.  From there the 2 BBs sail away and disregard them.  Torps are useless against these targets sailing away from them.

Cruisers trying to tackle the BBs at this stage of the match, unless they've got smoke, will get rekt.

If doing this with random groups, the best I can do is ensure mission completion and all the optionals.  Except for the 3 BBs one.  Too much to ask for with a random group, so 4 stars for me is typical.

With no carrier opposition Aegis screams even more for an at least mildly competent carrier driver. You get spotting for the smokers and softening up of the bot heavies. The thing is if the regular ships want as much help as possible from the carrier, they really need to focus down the Aobas and Myokos.

Focusing those ships has the added effect of eliminating some of the more dangerous bot opponents.

6 minutes ago, HazeGrayUnderway said:

Doing anything with a premade team with voice comms is easy.  It's the random group with zero control of ship composition, coordination things really become an issue.  The DDs I see here are all useless.

Agree about Randoms in Ops. My most recent experience in Killer Whale seemed to indicate most are just there to shoot much; because they seem to care very little.

In ONE of about twenty games, the team worked well and stomped the Op; wiping all the waves out and everyone surviving.

In all the rest; it was just myself and 1-3 others that even bothered playing the objectives.

I would have to disagree about destroyers; but only to the extent some are pretty dang good in them. For the most part though, I’d rather see a good carrier, battleships and cruisers in an Op.

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Here's a funny one!  4 star victory with a random, pick up group!

Spoiler

NVC4OH0.jpg

But we were all dead when the mission completed!

Spoiler

BrES4VA.jpg

Cruisers died horribly early on.  None were alive when the final spawns up north began to appear.  We were short of people when the "endgame" began and some splintered off to try to kill Kongo and Ishizuchi.  I tried to get them to stop because we didn't have enough people to do that as well as ensure the transports get away safely.  They end up dying to the Kongo and Ishizuchi without killing them.  Our New Mexico was in between Kongo / Ishizuchi and all the DDs and Cruisers from the northeast spawn.  He got rekt.

 

We were able to draw enough attention away from the transports that when the last of us died, the enemy weren't close enough to really slam hard into the transports.  The lead transport was at about 50% HP when it hit the escape circle.

8 minutes ago, Estimated_Prophet said:

With no carrier opposition Aegis screams even more for an at least mildly competent carrier driver. You get spotting for the smokers and softening up of the bot heavies. The thing is if the regular ships want as much help as possible from the carrier, they really need to focus down the Aobas and Myokos.

Focusing those ships has the added effect of eliminating some of the more dangerous bot opponents.

Agree about Randoms in Ops. My most recent experience in Killer Whale seemed to indicate most are just there to shoot much; because they seem to care very little.

In ONE of about twenty games, the team worked well and stomped the Op; wiping all the waves out and everyone surviving.

In all the rest; it was just myself and 1-3 others that even bothered playing the objectives.

I would have to disagree about destroyers; but only to the extent some are pretty dang good in them. For the most part though, I’d rather see a good carrier, battleships and cruisers in an Op.

Indeed.  Times we've had a CV were a lot more easy.  Best I saw was a Ryujo playing aggressively like he was in a Random game, sneaking up close and then getting into those eastern islands.  His sortie rate was very high and was nuking stuff.

 

A DD is kind of rough in other ops but they have a place, i.e. Operation Narai, a single DD can make dealing with Missouri so much more easy with no chance of someone getting randomly deleted or citadeled by it.  A DD just speeds in and nuke Missouri, done, everyone move on.

 

But Aegis is different.  The ones I see in randoms just don't do anything.  I can see torpedo DDs harassing the 2 northern BBs much more easily than a BB can.  Matter of fact, the Ryujo example I mentioned, we had a DD up north there also, so the Flood / Fire stacking from all those air and surface launched torpedoes, plus HE dive bombers did a lot of work.  But most of the DDs I see don't have that savvy.  So I'm watching Fubukis trying to be a gunboat and get rekt.

Edited by HazeGrayUnderway

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17 minutes ago, iDuckman said:

My survey of random DDs in this Op correlates with yours.  Suspiciously well.

 

 

I've never run Aegis in a DD before, but may want to for snowflakes. How should DDs play in order to contribute as best as they can?

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Part of the problem is many of us that are smart enough to actually be helpful in Scenerio battle are instead playing ton of Co-Op battles to get the snowflakes collected, playing Ranked, playing Clan Battles, or even Randoms. So the pool of good players randomly doing a Scenerio battle at the moment will be far lower than normal.

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25 minutes ago, yungpanda said:

I've never run Aegis in a DD before, but may want to for snowflakes. How should DDs play in order to contribute as best as they can?

play coop.

 

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It's just the continual stupidity of the playerbase. WG made the mistake of letting just anyone participate, so you get the 45% WR people coming trying to get the rewards, and the 55% WR people are back to randoms, ranked, and CW having obtained them. Until WG restricts the ops to intelligent players, it will remain the same.

 

Nice! I got a bunch of the spuds to downvote me. Go throw stars somewhere else.

Edited by pewpewpew42
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What I love is how all CV's were removed due to the rework as an explanation, yet the GZ in Hermes remains unchanged.:cap_hmm:

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40 minutes ago, yungpanda said:

I've never run Aegis in a DD before, but may want to for snowflakes. How should DDs play in order to contribute as best as they can?

I rarely play DDs in any Op so can't offer much advice, but see my post above about coming at the NW BB spawns from the west.

 

Also, there is a tiny island on the W side of one larger island where the 2nd wave spawns.  One of our DD mains loves to sit behind it and nuke that wave as it passes nearby.

 

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49 minutes ago, yungpanda said:

I've never run Aegis in a DD before, but may want to for snowflakes. How should DDs play in order to contribute as best as they can?

For the love of God please don't. I beg you with tears in my eyes ... don't bring destroyers into Operations. :Smile_sad:

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14 minutes ago, warheart1992 said:

What I love is how all CV's were removed due to the rework as an explanation, yet the GZ in Hermes remains unchanged.:cap_hmm:

In unrestricted Ops, players can still run them, and the only real opposition if the CV is at least mildly competent is the bots with DFAA.

2 minutes ago, flufflyfatcat said:

So AA builds are now completely useless for this Op.

Basically no need for them.

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6 minutes ago, flufflyfatcat said:

So AA builds are now completely useless for this Op.

Yep.  But don't re-spec yet.  AA will make a comeback soon.

 

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DDs can work in this op, if they do more than sit in smoke and shoot.

The problem with this op now is if you are the only BB.  You remain perma spotted and focused fired, while the DDs and CLs don't have the DPM to kill the BBs

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3 for 3 today. 5, 5, 4 stars. All randoms. 

 

My data suggests your hypothesis is incorrect. 

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i don't think i've gotten less than 4 stars since they changed it. and i've had several rounds with multiple DDs on my team (not including the bot).

i don't think it's ruined at all. every random team has a chance to fall victim to spudpocolypse, but that's not a mark against the game mode.

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since the removal of CVs in this operation I find that random 7 man teams can still complete it at 3-4 stars, I find BBs in teams becoming more viable than liability

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