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IfYouSeeKhaos

AFK report request...patience please.

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There's a (closed) thread started by Radar X requesting people to report ships you "believe" to be AFK...the way that's worded leaves room for people to assume that just because somebody isn't moving at the start of the match that they are AFK & should be reported.

There's plenty of scenarios where people DC but are still sitting there at there keyboards & are not AFK (Away From Keyboard).

I agree that people that are AFK should be reported so the situation can be looked into but my request is that you have a little patience & wait until the match is towards the end (to clarify that they are actually AFK) before reporting them instead of just reporting them because they didn't jump off the line immediately at the start.

I ask this because I have been in so many battles where people are quick in chat to say "report so & so (especially CVs) for AFK" before 1st engagement even starts.

Please have patience grasshoppers.

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Usually good Atlanta ops will wait to see where everyone is going. Then figure out where to set up their ambush. Atlanta is not a 'take charge' type ship. It's got great firepower on an Omaha hull. DDs that spend 3 minutes at spawn... REPORT those lazy leaches.

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1 hour ago, AVR_Project said:

Usually good Atlanta ops will wait to see where everyone is going. Then figure out where to set up their ambush. Atlanta is not a 'take charge' type ship. It's got great firepower on an Omaha hull. DDs that spend 3 minutes at spawn... REPORT those lazy leaches.

20 minutes ago, CaptainTeddybear said:

As long as your not playing a DD. DDs need to be moving as soon as the game starts.

Even DDs DC at times...that doesn't mean they are AFK...capping at the start is really not that important & those late loading DDs (as well as any other late loading ship) can end up kicking rears & taking top of the team...shame to have a top of the team performance & lose karma because of impatient people.

AFK reports are for the END of battle...when the ship has not moved at all because the player was actually AWAY from their keyboard...they are  NOT for people that load in late...no matter what type of ship they are in.

 

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DC's I get, however, what is going on with people internet that causes them to load so late? I have pretty terrible ping and all the joys that go with having internet in Alaska but I get in with 30s to spare at the latest. This is a legit question btw, not hating but I don't understand what the deal is.

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13 minutes ago, HashtagYoloSwagChamp said:

DC's I get, however, what is going on with people internet that causes them to load so late?

It's a good question and I wish I had the know-how to figure it out myself. All I can tell is that sometimes you may find yourself stuck at the loading screen, officially part of the match but unable to play yet.

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1 hour ago, CaptainTeddybear said:

A DD that is AFK at the start effects the whole team in a negative way, regardless if you personally end up scoring well.

AFK defined: Away From Keyboard.

DC defined: Disconnected (does not = AFK).

This game DCs people all the time for no reason whatsoever...that doesn't mean they are AFK & reporting them as such is an A-hole thing to do...but stand on your pedestal all you want to if you must.

And 1 ship starting slow no matter what type of ship it is does not "effect the whole team in a negative way"...if they are not present for the whole match that can (but not guaranteed either) but only people that insist DDs immediately charge into caps at the start "NO MATTER WHAT" would actually agree w/any generalized statement such as that.

If you disagree w/the play style some choose of waiting to move at the start that would fall under the category of "plays poorly (by your definition anyway)" not AFK. Radar X has posted a thread specifically about AFK bots & would like people to report them as such...but WG doesn't want to have to weed out the actual AFK bots from the people that either DCed or just decided that their play style is to wait to move...so if you could report the players you decide must be playing poorly as actually playing poorly (even though waiting to move is their prerogative despite your insistence on people playing your way or they are wrong) then that would surely help them in their efforts to actually determine who are AFK bots w/out all your make wrong reports to have to wade through.

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1 hour ago, HashtagYoloSwagChamp said:

DC's I get, however, what is going on with people internet that causes them to load so late? I have pretty terrible ping and all the joys that go with having internet in Alaska but I get in with 30s to spare at the latest. This is a legit question btw, not hating but I don't understand what the deal is.

There are literally hundreds of pieces of hardware to get from a to b on the internet.  Even if you do a tracert and only 'see' 10 hops - there is other hardware in play that do not respond to pings.  Anything along the way can cause problems though most of the time it would likely be a couple issues causing slow loading.  I never report any one in the first 5 minutes and if someone starts with the Report AFK after 30 seconds then I look and determine if they are AFK or not loaded in yet.  If I see they are not loaded in yet - then I do mention it in chat.

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59 minutes ago, IfYouSeeKhaos said:

AFK defined: Away From Keyboard.

DC defined: Disconnected (does not = AFK).

This game DCs people all the time for no reason whatsoever...that doesn't mean they are AFK & reporting them as such is an A-hole thing to do...but stand on your pedestal all you want to if you must.

And 1 ship starting slow no matter what type of ship it is does not "effect the whole team in a negative way"...if they are not present for the whole match that can (but not guaranteed either) but only people that insist DDs immediately charge into caps at the start "NO MATTER WHAT" would actually agree w/any generalized statement such as that.

If you disagree w/the play style some choose of waiting to move at the start that would fall under the category of "plays poorly (by your definition anyway)" not AFK. Radar X has posted a thread specifically about AFK bots & would like people to report them as such...but WG doesn't want to have to weed out the actual AFK bots from the people that either DCed or just decided that their play style is to wait to move...so if you could report the players you decide must be playing poorly as actually playing poorly (even though waiting to move is their prerogative despite your insistence on people playing your way or they are wrong) then that would surely help them in their efforts to actually determine who are AFK bots w/out all your make wrong reports to have to wade through.

There is no reason for a DD to wait to move. It can move slowly if it wants but there is no reason to not move at all. If they don't want to enter the cap right away that is understandable but they should move close to the cap and provide at least some spotting. A DD that doesn't want to cap or spot should be playing a different ship.

When a DD doesn't move the other ships near him go to a different cap. That substantially changes the game, usually for the worse.

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1 hour ago, IfYouSeeKhaos said:

AFK defined: Away From Keyboard.

DC defined: Disconnected (does not = AFK).

While the original term is "Away From Keyboard", today its widely used for any player thats not moving, the term AFK includes any player that its in the battle but its noy playing.

 

1 hour ago, IfYouSeeKhaos said:

This game DCs people all the time for no reason whatsoever...that doesn't mean they are AFK & reporting them as such is an A-hole thing to do...but stand on your pedestal all you want to if you must.

Most of the times, the DC happens for something on the players side, often connection issued on the player side.

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1 hour ago, IfYouSeeKhaos said:

And 1 ship starting slow no matter what type of ship it is does not "effect the whole team in a negative way"...if they are not present for the whole match that can (but not guaranteed either) but only people that insist DDs immediately charge into caps at the start "NO MATTER WHAT" would actually agree w/any generalized statement such as that.

I disagree with this, if the friendly CV is late enough launching fighters the enemy CV could already pull off a strike. Happened to me a couple times when I was grinding the Colorado, spawn too far out on one side to get AA support, friendly CV not launching planes, enemy CV gets a free strike in crippling me before the game goes anywhere. Plus the friendly CV can also give people early hints as to where the enemy team is headed so people know where to go better. Not having that when the enemy does is a massive disadvantage.

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4 hours ago, Xlap said:

While the original term is "Away From Keyboard", today its widely used for any player thats not moving, the term AFK includes any player that its in the battle but its noy playing.

That would be an incorrect usage of the term...the original usage is still the only correct usage...people that are "not playing" are playing poorly...not AFK.

Do we need to start reporting anybody "parked/camped" behind an island for cover as AFK? They're "not moving".

People that wait at the start of the match to move until they see which way the rest of the team is going (as opposed to which way the teams says they are going...unfortunately more often than not 2/3 or even 4 completely different ways sometimes) are not AFK...they are usually the ones that will carry the team after everybody else YOLOs by being the only ships in a position to actually engage the reds w/out being instantly eliminated...despite all the whining in chat from the YOLOers about them being "AFK" at the start of the match.

More often than not you should be thanking them for the win instead of reporting them for not running right out & getting instantly annihilated.

A person that runs to the back of the map & hides is not AFK either...they are just playing poorly.

Away From Keyboard is the only definition for AFK...if a wide # of people are using it for anything else then a wide # of people are using it wrong...& as Razor X has specifically asked for reports for AFK players I'm sure he would appreciate it if the reports were legitimate ones instead of any number of varied ones that are widely being used.

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11 hours ago, IfYouSeeKhaos said:

There's a (closed) thread started by Radar X requesting people to report ships you "believe" to be AFK...the way that's worded leaves room for people to assume that just because somebody isn't moving at the start of the match that they are AFK & should be reported.

There's plenty of scenarios where people DC but are still sitting there at there keyboards & are not AFK (Away From Keyboard).

I agree that people that are AFK should be reported so the situation can be looked into but my request is that you have a little patience & wait until the match is towards the end (to clarify that they are actually AFK) before reporting them instead of just reporting them because they didn't jump off the line immediately at the start.

I ask this because I have been in so many battles where people are quick in chat to say "report so & so (especially CVs) for AFK" before 1st engagement even starts.

Please have patience grasshoppers.

Nobody, absolutely nobody stay in one place without moving and not being afk. Those you describe in your post move their turrets, make noise with their horn, say hello, move at 1/4 speed etc. 

So, you don't move at all = you are afk and you deserve a report.

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1 hour ago, IfYouSeeKhaos said:

That would be an incorrect usage of the term...the original usage is still the only correct usage...people that are "not playing" are playing poorly...not AFK.

Things change with time. The overall meaning is still pretty close, a player that for some reason its not playing the game. 

 

1 hour ago, IfYouSeeKhaos said:

Do we need to start reporting anybody "parked/camped" behind an island for cover as AFK? They're "not moving".

Not moving might not be the bes definition, its more like not playing.

1 hour ago, IfYouSeeKhaos said:

People that wait at the start of the match to move until they see which way the rest of the team is going (as opposed to which way the teams says they are going...unfortunately more often than not 2/3 or even 4 completely different ways sometimes) are not AFK...they are usually the ones that will carry the team after everybody else YOLOs by being the only ships in a position to actually engage the reds w/out being instantly eliminated...despite all the whining in chat from the YOLOers about them being "AFK" at the start of the match.

More often than not you should be thanking them for the win instead of reporting them for not running right out & getting instantly annihilated.

This is a huge exaggeration from you. There is a lot between Yolo and AFK. Both are bad. 

1 hour ago, IfYouSeeKhaos said:

A person that runs to the back of the map & hides is not AFK either...they are just playing poorly.

Yep. And both are bad for their team, in different and similar ways at the same time. 

1 hour ago, IfYouSeeKhaos said:

Away From Keyboard is the only definition for AFK...if a wide # of people are using it for anything else then a wide # of people are using it wrong...& as Razor X has specifically asked for reports for AFK players I'm sure he would appreciate it if the reports were legitimate ones instead of any number of varied ones that are widely being used.

Once again, things change. Terms and words change with time. AFK became a common term for some one that for some reason is not playing the game. Its widely used in pretty all games out there. Its hard to say its wrong. You are still using the term to designate a player that for some reason its not playing the game. 

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13 hours ago, IfYouSeeKhaos said:

There's a (closed) thread started by Radar X requesting people to report ships you "believe" to be AFK...the way that's worded leaves room for people to assume that just because somebody isn't moving at the start of the match that they are AFK & should be reported.

There's plenty of scenarios where people DC but are still sitting there at there keyboards & are not AFK (Away From Keyboard).

I agree that people that are AFK should be reported so the situation can be looked into but my request is that you have a little patience & wait until the match is towards the end (to clarify that they are actually AFK) before reporting them instead of just reporting them because they didn't jump off the line immediately at the start.

I ask this because I have been in so many battles where people are quick in chat to say "report so & so (especially CVs) for AFK" before 1st engagement even starts.

Please have patience grasshoppers.

I rarely give a negative vote, unless the player really has shown no regard for the team.

AFK: I believe it is more likely to be a bad connection or the person has been chucked out of game, by the game. I just accept the challenge of one of our fleet being unserviceable, and move on. :Smile_honoring:

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6 hours ago, Rednecks_Slayer said:

Nobody, absolutely nobody stay in one place without moving and not being afk. Those you describe in your post move their turrets, make noise with their horn, say hello, move at 1/4 speed etc. 

So, you don't move at all = you are afk and you deserve a report.

The only people that I described in my OP (other than actual AFKs) are people that have DCed...if they DC before they get into the battle they are doing none of those things you have described in your post because they are not in battle yet to do any of those things...not moving at all at the start of a battle does not mean that they are definitely AFK...they may have just disconnected & are waiting to boot back in...but they are still at their keyboards during that waiting process...my request was that people wait until the end of the battle when it is guaranteed that they are AFK instead of reporting a bunch of people that might just be having DC issues at the start & will soon be in battle.

 

6 hours ago, Xlap said:

Yep. And both are bad for their team, in different and similar ways at the same time. 

There's no both..."not playing the game"=

8 hours ago, IfYouSeeKhaos said:

A person that runs to the back of the map & hides is not AFK either...they are just playing poorly (although actually "Unsupporting Behavior" is more appropriate).

That's basically what you are describing when saying "not playing the game"...a person that has entered the game & is not playing the game but sailing around taking screenshots of the map to add to his wallpaper collection...

For all intents & purposes he is AFK as far as his contribution is concerned (thus I can understand the confusion of people that assume that is what is meant...even though it is not) but when that is occurring "plays poorly" (actually also wrong despite my improper suggestions above) "unsporting behavior" is actually probably more along the lines of what they would like you to use in those situations because when somebody asks you to report somebody (in any game) for AFK...the only reports they want to receive are about people that have never entered the battle & all of their turrets are facing 6:00 & 12:00 from start to finish...any other reports than that are improperly filed reports that take the time away from checking out the players (the ONLY players...6&12) that are supposed to be reported on w/the AFK report. Just because "everybody is doing it" doesn't mean that the people that put the AFK report option in their games want them to.

 

6 hours ago, Xlap said:

This is a huge exaggeration from you. There is a lot between Yolo and AFK. Both are bad.

Sorry..."everybody else" was my exaggeration...I didn't meant to imply the whole team was YOLOing...when I said "people that wait..." I was assuming that others were intelligent enough to hold back also when the team went "4 different directions" thus the pluralized:

8 hours ago, IfYouSeeKhaos said:

they are usually the ones that will carry the team after everybody else YOLOs by being the only ships in a position to actually engage the reds w/out being instantly eliminated...despite all the whining in chat from the YOLOers about them being "AFK" at the start of the match.

Sorry I didn't clarify that more distinctly. Not everybody (in fact a very small percentage of people) worries about AFK players at the start of the game...but you can definitely tell which ones do when the complaints I described occur in chat.

 

In fact here's one of the majority of players here:

4 hours ago, _WaveRider_ said:

I rarely give a negative vote, unless the player really has shown no regard for the team.

AFK: I believe it is more likely to be a bad connection or the person has been chucked out of game, by the game. I just accept the challenge of one of our fleet being unserviceable, and move on. :Smile_honoring:

Same my good sir...the only reason I brought it up was in response to the fat that Razer X posted a (closed) thread on the subject specifically asking for players to make reports on them (in the game...there was even a screenshot of the in game AFK report option in the thread...thus the closed thread as he didn't want to hear any reports in the forums about it).

 

Other than the fact that a person that DCed at the start has no idea where the "last known positions" of the reds currently are when they finally get in...it's not a bad thing to have a player (even a DD...bummer when it's the only 1...but can be advantageous at times) that has the advantage of being able to ask where they are most needed at the time they finally enter & be able to go there instead of being another ship that went "the most obvious way" while the reds all went the other thus leaving them (as well as everybody else that went "the most obvious way") out of battle for a long time. The real detriment is when the "slow loader" doesn't ask where they are needed & just sails off to where it "seems" they are most needed w/out knowing where all of the "last known positions" of ships are at & they run smack dab into the middle of a "concentrated fire" nightmare.

If it's the only DD on the team & there's no CV to spot it can be a major detriment at the start of a battle...& we've all been in those battles...but it's still not always a guaranteed bad thing (especially when the reds only DD gets taken out at the start for "not being AFK") & taking a defeatists attitude about it (instead of playing it out & see how it goes when they get back) & instantly filing an AFK report is what I'm trying to stress should not be done...that was the whole (& only) intention of this thread.

 

TL/DR (& sorry for being so long winded on it): (Original OP concept): Please wait until the end of a battle to file an AFK report on somebody that starts AFK in case they are just temporarily DCed...AFK reports are not intended for late starters...only people that NEVER enter battle.

TL/DR addendum: (Based on comments received due to misinterpretations of what AFK actually means): "Unsporting Behavior" is the more appropriate report options for intentional "non participating sightseers" (aka "people not playing"). Please report appropriately/situation.

Edited by IfYouSeeKhaos

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17 hours ago, AVR_Project said:

DDs that spend 3 minutes at spawn... REPORT those lazy leaches.

^This.  I've seen some that don't start moving until at least one cruiser on that flank is dead and the BB is at half health.  When the DD doesn't move out, now the cruiser has to go play DD.  They get spotted first by the enemy DD (duh) and focused down.  Then the BB that was attempting to support gets whittled down.  Then the DD wakes up and launches two racks at the now depleted reds and gets two kills in a lopsided loss.  But they go away telling themselves "I did my part and killed two ships."

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4 minutes ago, ZARDOZ_II said:

^This.  I've seen some that don't start moving until at least one cruiser on that flank is dead and the BB is at half health.  When the DD doesn't move out, now the cruiser has to go play DD.  They get spotted first by the enemy DD (duh) and focused down.  Then the BB that was attempting to support gets whittled down.  Then the DD wakes up and launches two racks at the now depleted reds and gets two kills in a lopsided loss.  But they go away telling themselves "I did my part and killed two ships."

In your example the DD got the best results possible due to the situation that resulted from the rest of the team playing poorly.

2 wrongs don't make a right...between spawn & 1st engagement if the DD in your area is showing signs of AFK (whether real or just waiting to start for whatever reason) It is in no way the DDs fault if a cruiser "plays the DD" & dies quickly for it...that's 100% on the cruiser (& in your example the BB that followed for his demise also) for advancing that far forward w/out spotting.

Caps can wait until support is available...a lost cap at the start of the game is not a lost game & pushing a cap w/out support instead of heading another way (even the complete other side of the map if needs be) instead of having the "insistent" mind set that "all caps must be contested at the start no matter what" is only the fault of those that do it...not the fault of the AFK/lollygagging player.

When a DD starts to head to a cap & then deserts at the moment of engagement then he should be reported (but for "plays poorly"...not AFK...if they moved they are not AFK).

Your example is just other players playing poorly & using the AFK player as the scapegoat.

Duh is definitely the right description...but not for the AFK/lollygagging player.

& if the whole rest of the team is already in the "lopsided loss" department w/in 3 minutes of the start of a battle that is anything but the fault of the 1 AFK/lollygagging DD?

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2 hours ago, IfYouSeeKhaos said:

That's basically what you are describing when saying "not playing the game"...a person that has entered the game & is not playing the game but sailing around taking screenshots of the map to add to his wallpaper collection...

He could be considered a AFK. He is in the game but not really playing, not helping the team and doesnt have any intention in doing so. This could also be considered a troll player since he is intentionally not playing the game. Os grnades responsaveis pela generalizaçao do termo AFk são as proprias empresas

2 hours ago, IfYouSeeKhaos said:

For all intents & purposes he is AFK as far as his contribution is concerned (thus I can understand the confusion of people that assume that is what is meant...even though it is not) but when that is occurring "plays poorly" (actually also wrong despite my improper suggestions above) "unsporting behavior" is actually probably more along the lines of what they would like you to use in those situations because when somebody asks you to report somebody (in any game) for AFK...the only reports they want to receive are about people that have never entered the battle & all of their turrets are facing 6:00 & 12:00 from start to finish...any other reports than that are improperly filed reports that take the time away from checking out the players (the ONLY players...6&12) that are supposed to be reported on w/the AFK report. Just because "everybody is doing it" doesn't mean that the people that put the AFK report option in their games want them to

  

The main responsibles for the generalization of the AFK term are the game companies themselves. Reports like "plays poorly" and "unsuporting behavior" rarely ends up in punishment for players. But AFK does. AFK is one of the few things that ends up in some kind of punishment. Even though a "plays poorly" and "unsuporting behavior" can be even worse than a AFK. 

 

In your example of a ship "sailing around taking screenshots of the map to add to his wallpaper collection". If i report him for "plays poorly" or "unsuporting behavior", most of the games wont do anything to him. But a report for a AFK might do something. Here in WoWs i dont even thing it does, as far as i know the only report that does something here is the chat report, which players also abuse here.

 

 

 

 

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1 hour ago, IfYouSeeKhaos said:

It is in no way the DDs fault if a cruiser "plays the DD" & dies quickly for it...that's 100% on the cruiser (& in your example the BB that followed for his demise also) for advancing that far forward w/out spotting.

Sorry, but the only one at fault here is the one who refuses to contribute in a meaningful way.  Sitting there watching while a flank collapses just so you can score a couple garbage time kills harms the team.  

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1 minute ago, ZARDOZ_II said:

Sorry, but the only one at fault here is the one who refuses to contribute in a meaningful way.  Sitting there watching while a flank collapses just so you can score a couple garbage time kills harms the team.  

I agree.  It's like Team Killing, except you are using the red team to do the dirty-work.

To the DD op...   Because you are there, the other team has an equal DD.  What you are doing is hurtful.

The team has to push to get caps.  No activity just means a slower death.   There is a balance to DD work, and if you aren't out there, just don't hit the 'Battle' button.

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30 minutes ago, C14Alpha said:

The comments in this thread show exactly why the new "AFK" reporting described in @Radar_X post will be nothing more than another unneeded way for players to vent.

The game software already monitors player activity -any and all control inputs- with 100% accuracy.  WG management can use that information to set any threshold they choose for inappropriate inactivity.  Other players simply cannot distinguish inactivity with anything near the precision that the servers can tell whether a ship is idle or being controlled.

The new "AFK" reporting adds nothing constructive to the existing system.  As the comments in this thread demonstrate, many players will use the new reporting to complain when they don't like the way others play.  The only upside to the new reporting is that grumpy players will have a meaningless way and place (other than Chat and this Forum) to vent their anger.

We seriously need a button to report aim-hacks in game.  What I speak of is the part of this hack that detects incoming rounds and paints their impact locations.

There was this Murmansk today that I played with for a full 5 minutes.  

I fire a shot -- he dodges, hitting his rudder the moment I fire.  The shell is taking 6 seconds to get there.

I'm doing equal spaced  shots out of my PEF, watching this again and again.. 

Heck..  I don't even know where the shots are going to land, but he did.  As expected, his shots never missed -- but I'm a secondary/survival build.

I managed my health pool and used DC/heal wisely enough to survive this silliness.  An unspotted enemy Gneisenau put an end to my amusement.

I scored about 12 secondary hits, but all my main guns were misses.

I'll post a replay if requested.  Last time I filed a ticket, I got some nonsense about detection range..

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