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Ace6steel

St. Louis/Charleston: how good are they?

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St. Louis and Charleston are probably two of my favorite ships on my new account. Even though they are T3 they can and will tangle with T4s and still come out on top. This isn't a cry for nerf thread, more of a "what do you think?" thread.

I'll insert my own opinion here: TRUE GUN-BOTES

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The St. Loius was a beast when I ground through it - impossible citadel, BB like armor, and spewed fire like Mt. Vesuvius.   I do think it's been nerfed quite a bit since then, but still, a good bullet hose the last time I played it.

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St Louis is a very good ship, pushing the 'very strong' envelope. It has a lot of firepower that's easy to use, it's quite tough for a light cruiser and has a serious slab of hit points. Only its range and slow speed keep it in check.

Then there is Bogatyr, which - with the right build - is faster, more agile and has more range, with very similar firepower.

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3 minutes ago, StoptheViolins said:

 I do think it's been nerfed quite a bit since then

Actually it's been buffed. With the OWSF nerf / rebalance St Louis got a bit more range.

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St. Louis is possibly the best for a basic captain, but the way Bogatyr's strength scales with commander skills is insane. You can stack AFT and BFT and outrange almost everyone in your MM spread.

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5 minutes ago, Lert said:

St Louis is a very good ship, pushing the 'very strong' envelope. It has a lot of firepower that's easy to use, it's quite tough for a light cruiser and has a serious slab of hit points. Only its range and slow speed keep it in check.

Then there is Bogatyr, which - with the right build - is faster, more agile and has more range, with very similar firepower.

i forgot which guns the Bogatyr has

are they 130s or 152s?

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Just now, Ace6steel said:

i forgot which guns the Bogatyr has

are they 130s or 152s?

Stock 152s, upgraded 130s. The 152s are very similar to St Louis' guns, and if you're going to use the 152s just stick with St Louis. It's the 130s that unlock Bogatyr's potential, as AFT and BFT work on them.

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The St Louis is one of my favorite ships in the game. It has an extremely heavy broadside for tier 3, an HP pool that rivals battleships, it's difficult to citadel, and its armor belt gives it large immune zones to HE. 

It's not perfect; it's slow, has limited range, bad shell velocity, bad dispersion, and you have to give a near complete broadside to enemies to bring most of your guns to bear. However, its strengths outweigh its weaknesses by a long shot. It's one of only a few cruisers I've managed to score a "devastating strike" in, without detonating the other ship. 

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1 minute ago, Lert said:

Stock 152s, upgraded 130s. The 152s are very similar to St Louis' guns, and if you're going to use the 152s just stick with St Louis. It's the 130s that unlock Bogatyr's potential, as AFT and BFT work on them.

so St. Louis is better for a captain starting out/basic captain

vs. Bogatyr which benefits from skills but needs a build to excel

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2 minutes ago, warheart1992 said:

You can stack AFT and BFT and outrange almost everyone in your MM spread.

If you take the upgraded, smaller calibre guns. I struggled with this for an age, but after I won Varyag I had no need for the six-inch fit in Bogatyr any more.

However, until Dreadnought is mine, I can't afford to waste limited playing time on ships that don't contribute to Dailies points. Once she's taken care of, it's back to low tiers for a while. Yes, it's seal-clubbing (or possibly bot-clubbing, if I want the ultimate in low-tier relaxation). No, I don't care.

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1 minute ago, Ace6steel said:

so St. Louis is better for a captain starting out/basic captain

vs. Bogatyr which benefits from skills but needs a build to excel

Basically.

Bogatyr is also softer and has about 75% of the hit points, so it dies a lot easier if you make a mistake.

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1 minute ago, thelastholdout said:

The St Louis is one of my favorite ships in the game. It has an extremely heavy broadside for tier 3, an HP pool that rivals battleships, it's difficult to citadel, and its armor belt gives it large immune zones to HE. 

It's not perfect; it's slow, has limited range, bad shell velocity, bad dispersion, and you have to give a near complete broadside to enemies to bring most of your guns to bear. However, its strengths outweigh its weaknesses by a long shot. It's one of only a few cruisers I've managed to score a "devastating strike" in, without detonating the other ship. 

not to mention you can switch targets pretty easily with 6 guns on the other side of the ship ready to go

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1 minute ago, Lert said:

Basically.

Bogatyr is also softer and has about 75% of the hit points, so it dies a lot easier if you make a mistake.

St. Louis does seem like she can tank better as she can deal with AP pretty well

even if Bogatyr eats AP overpens she will still feel it

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10 minutes ago, warheart1992 said:

St. Louis is possibly the best for a basic captain, but the way Bogatyr's strength scales with commander skills is insane. You can stack AFT and BFT and outrange almost everyone in your MM spread.

Then stack on IFHE and laugh as you pen BB's no matter how they are angled.

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2 minutes ago, IronMike11C4O said:

Then stack on IFHE and laugh as you pen BB's no matter how they are angled.

Bring that AR and if St. Louis takes hits...

be ready for a machine gun cruiser at T3

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St. Louis is a very forgiving ship. Get yourself in a bad situation, she usually has the ability to let you dig yourself back out.

Pretty good at seal clubbing DD drivers still learning their craft as well :)

 

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4 minutes ago, Lert said:

Basically.

Bogatyr is also softer and has about 75% of the hit points, so it dies a lot easier if you make a mistake.

Bogatyr in the hands of an experienced player can outperform the St. Louis.  It's maxed out 13.6 km range can give tier 4s a run for their money

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10 minutes ago, Ensign_Cthulhu said:

If you take the upgraded, smaller calibre guns. I struggled with this for an age, but after I won Varyag I had no need for the six-inch fit in Bogatyr any more.

However, until Dreadnought is mine, I can't afford to waste limited playing time on ships that don't contribute to Dailies points. Once she's taken care of, it's back to low tiers for a while. Yes, it's seal-clubbing (or possibly bot-clubbing, if I want the ultimate in low-tier relaxation). No, I don't care.

Been using him as my go to ship the few Division games I played with a friend. He's solid with the smaller caliber battery. As for sealclubbers I guess my only one is Shenyang, not that big into lower tiers.

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1 minute ago, Ace6steel said:

Bring that AR and if St. Louis takes hits...

be ready for a machine gun cruiser at T3

Don’t forget a secondary suite almost as numerous as its main battery. Almost a Tier 3 Mikasa without the rotten main battery.

Kiting smarmy gits who fail to pay attention and let a St Louis get close soon learn to regret their choices.

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1 minute ago, Estimated_Prophet said:

Don’t forget a secondary suite almost as numerous as its main battery. Almost a Tier 3 Mikasa without the rotten main battery.

Kiting smarmy gits who fail to pay attention and let a St Louis get close soon learn to regret their choices.

those secondries i think benefit from BFT, AFT, and flags

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I tossed my Worcester captain with BFT and AFT on Charleston just for lulz.   I felt so guilty with the sheer amount of secondary shells coming out of it.   Oddly, I only got second on the list at the end.  First place went to a St. Louis, go figure.

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St Louis I have had for a long long time and have kept it.  It is still my highest win ship. It's a cruiser but has damn near the power of a BB at her tier and I often don't hesitate to fight BBs that are alone with her.  Ya see BB play at her tier can be pretty crappy. Caution!  She is slow so don't charge out with her without knowing what you are getting into...hard to get out of serious trouble in her.  She is a tank and can take a hell of a lot of damage. Her broadside is potent and you must get at least semi-broadside to take advantage of the million guns she has broadside.  Head on she only has 1 gun to use so ya gotta angle to use that great broadside. Bogatyr is great when you get the long range upgrade on her.  She will out range most all ships in her tier. Great ship. You can really lay on the damage with her if you stay at range where most ships at her tier cannot hit her but she can hit them!  Good luck! 

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59 minutes ago, Lert said:

Then there is Bogatyr, which - with the right build - is faster, more agile and has more range, with very similar firepower.

But she's not as well protected as St Louis.  St Louis is essentially an Armored Cruiser, the only one in the game.  The other ships at T2 and T3 around her are Protected Cruisers.   The difference here that Protected cruisers depended on an Armored Deck to protect their engineering spaces and buoyancy but these ships lacked any protection for their sides.  Anything not under the armored deck was essentially not protected by anything. 

Armored Cruisers like St. Louis added a protective Armored Belt to the side of the ship with an arrangement similar to that of contemporary battleships.  St Louis has such an armored belt.  It's smaller and thinner than that of a battleship, but it's presence is what makes St Louis a far tougher target than the other cruisers of her tier. 

If you are looking for a Tier III Pocket Battleship, St Louis is the ship for you.  

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47 minutes ago, BB3_Oregon_Steel said:

But she's not as well protected as St Louis.

Right. But who needs armor and hitpoints if you've got more range, speed and agility than most things that could pose a threat to you?

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