Jump to content
You need to play a total of 5 battles to post in this section.
Kelorn

[Official] Wargaming Response to Steel Concerns

70 comments in this topic

Recommended Posts

207
[-K-]
WoWS Community Contributors
313 posts
6,617 battles
In my persona as co-host of the Warships Podcast, I asked iEarlGrey for an official quote from Wargaming in regards to the amount of steel earnable from the New Years events and campaigns as well as my concerns regarding the devaluation of the resource. Here is the response:
 
 
Commanders,
 
Since the release of the 0.7.12 Developer Bulletin there have been concerns about the steel that will be available for players during the end of year period, which we've been addressing in streams and chats since then. In addition, we've decided to share a few more points with you, including some numbers illustrating our players and their potential for achieving the rewards that will be up for grabs.
 
During end of year events, players will be able to get steel from four main sources, in addition to competitive play in Ranked and Clan Battles. These will be Snowflakes, the milestone event "In the Name of His Highness", two mission chains, as well as the Steel Monsters campaign.
 
Players will be able to receive 2000 steel from the milestone event, as well as 2019 from each of the mission chains - one of which will be available for free for owners of Prinz Eitel Friedrich, while the other will be available for purchase along with the top-tier premium shop bundles containing the same ship. The Steel Monsters campaign will also be available from the premium shop and the player will have at least 180 days to complete it, which will grant a total of 4000 steel. All of this totals to 4000 steel achievable for free and 6000 steel achievable after purchase.
 
In addition to the above, players will be able to receive a varying amount of steel for knocking off snowflakes from each of your top-tier ships. While this may look like a literal metric tonne of steel to the veterans among you, let us put that into perspective:
 
· Only around 30% of the active audience currently has ships eligible for any steel rewards from snowflakes.
· Only around 4% of the active audience currently has ships eligible to get them more than 2000 steel from snowflakes.
· Only around 0.4% of the active audience currently has ships eligible to get them more than 4500 steel from snowflakes.
 
In addition to the above, Ranked enthusiasts are able to get around 5500 steel for the season, as well as a maximum of 11000 steel for Clan Battles. Please also remember that all of the steel sources above require an investment of gameplay time, including the purchasable ones. Sure, many players will play these missions and campaigns, but only the most dedicated fleet commanders will do it all. Most of the players who fall into the mentioned brackets are also veteran, competitive or clan players. What this means is that there is very little risk of an excessive influx of top-tier steel ships, especially in the hands of very inexperienced players. You will still encounter such players in battle and you might stumble across the odd battle that's heavy with steel on both sides. However, these instances will be exceptions, rather than the rules.
 
In any case, regardless of what type of player you are, we want to give you a fighting chance at getting steel or the ships it unlocks. That being said, both the resource itself as well as these ships will likely stay as a reward for competitive gameplay and players who invest their time and skill to get to the top will be the first to claim such rewards. In addition, they can acquire unique vanity items via other competitive currencies, which are available for achieving Rank 1 in Ranked seasons or winning enough battles in Typhoon league in Clan Battles. We plan to keep expanding this system in the future as well.
 
Action stations,
 
  • Cool 12

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
461
[NGA]
Members
1,680 posts
9,099 battles

It's a pleasure to know I'm in that 0.5%. The advantages of grinding every line and purchasing every premium that I find interesting.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1,760
[NGAGE]
Members
3,106 posts
8,094 battles

It's amazing to me how confusing trying to understand how much steel these events will provide has been.

6 minutes ago, Kelorn said:
Players will be able to receive 2000 steel from the milestone event, as well as 2019 from each of the mission chains - one of which will be available for free for owners of Prinz Eitel Friedrich, while the other will be available for purchase along with the top-tier premium shop bundles containing the same ship. The Steel Monsters campaign will also be available from the premium shop and the player will have at least 180 days to complete it, which will grant a total of 4000 steel. All of this totals to 4000 steel achievable for free and 6000 steel achievable after purchase.
 
 

My understanding from the previous announcement was there would be 4019 steel available for free and 4k from the campaign. Where is the additional 2k purchasable steel coming from?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
19
[PVE]
Members
92 posts
16,272 battles
3 minutes ago, JediMasterDraco said:

It's a pleasure to know I'm in that 0.5%. The advantages of grinding every line and purchasing every premium that I find interesting.

I was thinking the same thing but what I find  more interesting is the fact that only 30% of the Player Base owns at least a Tier 8 Premium or a Tier 9 Tech Tree ship.  Hmmm.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
332
Members
1,195 posts

there is no devaluation, the squawks of devaluation are from the elitist plebs who believe that "Ranked and Clan Battles" is the pinnacle of skills etc, when the fact remains there is NO mode of play that forces a pure mode of play WITHOUT ANY form of mods, thus from my point of view ANYONE who uses ANY TYPE of mod regardless of how WG view it and even if it is just "cosmetic" is someone who cheats, thus "Ranked and Clan Battles" is devalued by the fact there is NO pure mode with a level playing field.

 

i.e. "Ranked and Clan Battles" are a joke with resources hidden behind them that many people like myself wont play until a pure mode is forced to all.  

  • Cool 8
  • Funny 2
  • Boring 8

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Members
501 posts
1 minute ago, b101uk said:

there is no devaluation, the squawks of devaluation are from the elitist plebs who believe that "Ranked and Clan Battles" is the pinnacle of skills etc  

 

Exactly. It's human nature to want that shiney thing (steel ships in this case) all for yourself.  Truth of the matter is you can fail your way to the top in ANY game mode, even the most competitive. Clan battle success is about time investment. In tanks, you see 47% WR players driving around in OP clan wars rewards vehicles. So, some people need to get off their high horses. There are a LOT of great players who deserve some of that steel resource action, who cannot grind their life away in a ranked season or participate in clan battles. 

  • Cool 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3,625
[PVE]
[PVE]
Members
7,329 posts
20,196 battles

I am just amazed that there are players who are "concerned" about other players obtaining steel. Such pettiness is beyond me. From the looks of things the amount of steel available for most players is about the same amount of steel that would have been available for the normal Ranked play that was replaced by Ranked Sprint which only gave out coal.....

Kelorn I get that you want to keep steel exclusive to competitive play. But considering they haven't offered any thing but Clan Wars to get the resource because they introduced Sprint, it shouldn't be such a big deal. Not sure why you think it is now somehow devalued, that is absurd. It is just more available, not quite the same as devalued.

Offering steel in this new way offers EVERY player in the game an opportunity to get a bit more steel. This helps everyone. Competitive players get a bit of a boost to get the reward ships they want. Casual players who don't regularly do the competitive modes may be motivated to play them more often to get what they want. Totally casual players who normally wouldn't get any steel can trade what they get in for coal and get the numerous prizes available in Arsenal. Even Wargaming wins, they will earn a few dollars selling the campaign.

The only fail I see in all this is from my fellow players who feel a need to whine about how other players obtain resources... It is pathetic.

Edited by Taylor3006
  • Cool 10

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1,760
[NGAGE]
Members
3,106 posts
8,094 battles
7 minutes ago, Taylor3006 said:

Kelorn I get that you want to keep steel exclusive to competitive play. But considering they haven't offered any thing but Clan Wars to get the resource because they introduced Sprint, it shouldn't be such a big deal. Not sure why you think it is now somehow devalued, that is absurd. It is just more available, not quite the same as devalued.

You have been able to get steel through ranked even if you only got to rank 21 since ranked season 10.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2,491
[90TH]
[90TH]
Alpha Tester
6,674 posts
8,217 battles

Glad to be in the 0.5 % (once I spend my stockpile of 500 000 000 credits on t9s just for this event). I forsee, contrary to Earlgrey's argument, a flood of Flints in tier 7 random battles, (they are already getting quite common), while at t9, we will see Blacks much more often too. Basically because they are very easily obtained just with these Winter season steel events. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1,917
[WOLF2]
Beta Testers
4,480 posts
6,103 battles
22 minutes ago, xyt272 said:

I was thinking the same thing but what I find  more interesting is the fact that only 30% of the Player Base owns at least a Tier 8 Premium or a Tier 9 Tech Tree ship.  Hmmm.

Yeah, that’s the most interesting part of this email.

I’ll get a bunch of steels for my premiums. Some for my tech tree ships.  Maybe a little for ranked play.

But I don’t know if there are any steel ships I’m really interested in yet.   So I guess we’ll see.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3,625
[PVE]
[PVE]
Members
7,329 posts
20,196 battles
3 minutes ago, enderland07 said:

You have been able to get steel through ranked even if you only got to rank 21 since ranked season 10.

I forgot the word "recently". What I am trying to say is that the events essentially give out the amount of steel that was REMOVED from the game by the introduction of Sprint. Sorry that was not clear.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1,760
[NGAGE]
Members
3,106 posts
8,094 battles
Just now, LoveBote said:

Glad to be in the 0.5 % (once I spend my stockpile of 500 000 000 credits on t9s just for this event). I forsee, contrary to Earlgrey's argument, a flood of Flints in tier 7 random battles, (they are already getting quite common), while at t9, we will see Blacks much more often too. Basically because they are very easily obtained just with these Winter season steel events. 

What the OP doesn't include is information based on the active player base in battles.

What percentage of battles played in the last 48 hours include players who have those various categories (not player %, the actual "I am seeing these players in battle" %)? I suspect that while perhaps only 4% of players in total can get more than 2k steel from snowflakes, a much higher percentage of the players you encounter in battle can do so.

Without a definition for "active player" these numbers are reasonably meaningless. My assumption is it's something like "players who logged into the game in the last 30 days" or something. But almost assuredly people in that 0.5% and 4% categories are more likely playing more games than people who only have a T3 ship. What would be more meaningful is:

  • Of every battle played in the last X days, what percentage of players in each battle would obtain this type of reward?

In other words, the weighted average of players who I am likely to encounter. 

  • Cool 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2,491
[90TH]
[90TH]
Alpha Tester
6,674 posts
8,217 battles
6 minutes ago, enderland07 said:
  • Of every battle played in the last X days, what percentage of players in each battle would obtain this type of reward?

 

And then of course, for those that acquire said ships, how many battles will they play in them as a proportion of their weekly gameplay? (And so we would get a better understanding of their presence in MM and their potential influence over the meta.)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
879
[R-F]
Members
1,204 posts
7,860 battles
31 minutes ago, b101uk said:

there is no devaluation, the squawks of devaluation are from the elitist plebs who believe that "Ranked and Clan Battles" is the pinnacle of skills etc, when the fact remains there is NO mode of play that forces a pure mode of play WITHOUT ANY form of mods, thus from my point of view ANYONE who uses ANY TYPE of mod regardless of how WG view it and even if it is just "cosmetic" is someone who cheats, thus "Ranked and Clan Battles" is devalued by the fact there is NO pure mode with a level playing field.

 

i.e. "Ranked and Clan Battles" are a joke with resources hidden behind them that many people like myself wont play until a pure mode is forced to all.  

Elites plebs? So... elitist commoners?  that's stupid.  Unless you're being ironic.  I can't process irony until I've had at least two cups of coffee.

Wargaming does not share your opinions on mods and "purity".  Your complains about mods are equally as valid as if I were to say "all destroyer players who reload their torpedoes are cheating".  Which is to say, not valid in any way.

Ranked and Clan battles are the top competitive modes in WOWS, because they are the only ones that attempt to sort players via a competitive ladder.  I see no problem with WG making special rewards available only to players that excel at these modes, although I'll certainly be going after all of this free holiday steel.

If you've attempted clan or ranked battles and have not had success I can guarantee it's not because of mods.

 

  • Boring 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3,052
[OO7]
Members
4,295 posts
10,961 battles

Basically it comes down to what incentive is there for players to strive towards skill or determination wise? If they are just going to give steel away in fairly large volumes for very little, why are people going to play cb and ranked? Very few people are going to play ranked for the number next to their name. 

Dumbing down this game with how the cv rework is turning out and then giving away the premium currency like candy is going to turn higher skill/comp players off a bit. The question is whether wg loses money over it or gains enough from gaining players they wouldn't have otherwise. 

I do find it very interesting that I can't remember seeing any mention of the stats from season 10 of ranked and whether their numbers are going up or down do to the restructuring of the rewards. I find that suspicious. I think the numbers dropped a fair bit in the higher ranks. 

  • Cool 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3,625
[PVE]
[PVE]
Members
7,329 posts
20,196 battles
1 hour ago, xyt272 said:

I was thinking the same thing but what I find  more interesting is the fact that only 30% of the Player Base owns at least a Tier 8 Premium or a Tier 9 Tech Tree ship.  Hmmm.

IMHO the big reason for that is where players quit the game is mid tiers, 5 and 6. They don't delete the accounts, they still exist and are included in any statistics that Wargaming farms from player accounts. If the numbers they used are from active accounts (i.e. accounts that have had activity/gameplay in the past 30 days) I would imagine the percentages would be much higher.

IF on the other hand, they do get the correct information, it means that there is a huge influx of new players (I doubt this) or just lots of players who play low tiers or not often enough to get up the tech tree (more likely). This bodes poorly for all of us as a huge number of players lack much interest in the game. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1,254
[WOLFG]
Members
4,496 posts
2,510 battles
2 minutes ago, Taylor3006 said:

IMHO the big reason for that is where players quit the game is mid tiers, 5 and 6. They don't delete the accounts, they still exist and are included in any statistics that Wargaming farms from player accounts. If the numbers they used are from active accounts (i.e. accounts that have had activity/gameplay in the past 30 days) I would imagine the percentages would be much higher.

IF on the other hand, they do get the correct information, it means that there is a huge influx of new players (I doubt this) or just lots of players who play low tiers or not often enough to get up the tech tree (more likely). This bodes poorly for all of us as a huge number of players lack much interest in the game. 

With T8 and T10 being so popular (by some numbers  @Taichunger put together), I think it is mostly dead accounts, and forum only accounts.

I think the reason they are making steel available in this way is because WG is going to continue to release steel ships. 

This encourages climbing to higher tier and playing competitive modes.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
385
[EQRN]
Members
918 posts
11,006 battles
1 hour ago, HorrorRoach said:

It's awesome how they rewarded whaleness with 200steel for every premium, LOL.

For T8 and higher that is.  And given MM for T8 historically not being the nicest, while making the most direct $ for WG, it’s nice to see them being included for steel, and maximum value, as well.  Yes, I have more than a couple premium T8s.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
19
[PVE]
Members
92 posts
16,272 battles
1 hour ago, TheDreadnought said:

Yeah, that’s the most interesting part of this email.

I’ll get a bunch of steels for my premiums. Some for my tech tree ships.  Maybe a little for ranked play.

But I don’t know if there are any steel ships I’m really interested in yet.   So I guess we’ll see.

I’m kind of in the same boat. No pun intended. Not really interested in Flint or Black but won’t earn enough for the TX’s. Looks like I’ll be trying Ranked for the 1st time. Yippee.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
299
[CAST]
Members
1,564 posts
8,009 battles
23 minutes ago, Taylor3006 said:

IMHO the big reason for that is where players quit the game is mid tiers, 5 and 6. They don't delete the accounts, they still exist and are included in any statistics that Wargaming farms from player accounts. If the numbers they used are from active accounts (i.e. accounts that have had activity/gameplay in the past 30 days) I would imagine the percentages would be much higher.

IF on the other hand, they do get the correct information, it means that there is a huge influx of new players (I doubt this) or just lots of players who play low tiers or not often enough to get up the tech tree (more likely). This bodes poorly for all of us as a huge number of players lack much interest in the game. 

I suspect your first reason is the correct one.  It is relatively easy and quick to play a bunch of games and progress up to somewhere around T5 or T6.  After that, a player is either committed to the game or feels that the game doesn't interest them any longer and they move on.  It is a long grind for a casual player to move up to a T8, T9, and T10 ship.  I suspect many get bored with the game and don't make it.  A few of the newer players will stay and continue the grind.  As long as new players coming in equals or exceeds the number of players quitting, the game is fine.  Once the players leaving exceeds the players coming in, the game will cease to be viable.  The balance for WG is to keep the existing  players happy, while enticing new players to commit and stay.  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
19
[PVE]
Members
92 posts
16,272 battles
31 minutes ago, Taylor3006 said:

IMHO the big reason for that is where players quit the game is mid tiers, 5 and 6. They don't delete the accounts, they still exist and are included in any statistics that Wargaming farms from player accounts. If the numbers they used are from active accounts (i.e. accounts that have had activity/gameplay in the past 30 days) I would imagine the percentages would be much higher.

IF on the other hand, they do get the correct information, it means that there is a huge influx of new players (I doubt this) or just lots of players who play low tiers or not often enough to get up the tech tree (more likely). This bodes poorly for all of us as a huge number of players lack much interest in the game. 

Agree Taylor. Without trend data it’s hard to know for sure. Tier 10 is heavily populated though which leads me to believe that the percentages provided include a lot of inactive players.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Members
888 posts
39 minutes ago, Murcc said:

As long as new players coming in equals or exceeds the number of players quitting, the game is fine.  Once the players leaving exceeds the players coming in, the game will cease to be viable.  The balance for WG is to keep the existing  players happy, while enticing new players to commit and stay.  

According to you, it ceases to be viable on launch day in the US.  The game has been losing numbers steadily.  You can find this on that russian player monitoring site.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
19
[-K-]
[-K-]
Members
82 posts
4,862 battles
1 hour ago, Ducky_shot said:

Basically it comes down to what incentive is there for players to strive towards skill or determination wise? If they are just going to give steel away in fairly large volumes for very little, why are people going to play cb and ranked? Very few people are going to play ranked for the number next to their name. 

Dumbing down this game with how the cv rework is turning out and then giving away the premium currency like candy is going to turn higher skill/comp players off a bit. The question is whether wg loses money over it or gains enough from gaining players they wouldn't have otherwise. 

I do find it very interesting that I can't remember seeing any mention of the stats from season 10 of ranked and whether their numbers are going up or down do to the restructuring of the rewards. I find that suspicious. I think the numbers dropped a fair bit in the higher ranks. 

Everyone seems to ignore this aspect. This is why "elitist plebs" think these events de-values steel. Because if its given away, what's the point in playing ranked or CBs? Or about trying to improve to do better in these modes? There isn't, as you can just wait to be given steel for doing something much easier.

Because I would bet a whole lot of dubs steel events won't be a one time occurrence.

Edited by Zarroc1
  • Cool 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

×