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Destin65

Finland Battleships??

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Anyone know if they'll eventually add in Finland's powerful navy that kept the RN at bay during WWII?? They had at least two pocket battleships around the same size as the USS South Carolina that's currently in the game. I think the Ilmarinen and Vainamoinen would make for great additions! And if not under the Finnish flag, then perhaps as part of a Minor Powers flag like how the Pan-Asia ships are being done?

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There is no way those ships could function as battleships in this game. You compare them to South Carolina, but these are smaller than most destroyers in this game, at least by length - and by tonnage they're also nowhere near South Carolina.

South Carolina:

  • 18.5 knots
  • 16,257 ton
  • 8x 305mm
  • 12" belt
  • 138m length

Ilmarinen and Vainamonen:

  • 14.5 knots - slower than anything currently in the game
  • 3,900 ton - less than a quarter of South Carolina's displacement
  • 4x 10" guns - half the amount of barrels, smaller caliber
  • 2" belt - USS Omaha would pity these ships. Hell, HMS Caledon would
  • 93m length - less than 3/4 of South Carolina's length - closer to 2/3

As you see, there is no way these would even begin to compete with South Carolina on anything resembling an even playing field.

Maaaaybe as cruisers, but here their low speed would prevent them from being anything close to resembling 'flexible'.

 

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39 minutes ago, Lert said:

There is no way those ships could function as battleships in this game. You compare them to South Carolina, but these are smaller than most destroyers in this game, at least by length - and by tonnage they're also nowhere near South Carolina.

South Carolina:

  • 18.5 knots
  • 16,257 ton
  • 8x 305mm
  • 12" belt
  • 138m length

Ilmarinen and Vainamonen:

  • 14.5 knots - slower than anything currently in the game
  • 3,900 ton - less than a quarter of South Carolina's displacement
  • 4x 10" guns - half the amount of barrels, smaller caliber
  • 2" belt - USS Omaha would pity these ships. Hell, HMS Caledon would
  • 93m length - less than 3/4 of South Carolina's length - closer to 2/3

As you see, there is no way these would even begin to compete with South Carolina on anything resembling an even playing field.

Maaaaybe as cruisers, but here their low speed would prevent them from being anything close to resembling 'flexible'.

 

you think we may get a Swedish tree in the future Lert? they had a few paper designs that could prove interesting.:fish_book:

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5 minutes ago, BladedPheonix said:

you think we may get a Swedish tree in the future Lert? they had a few paper designs that could prove interesting.:fish_book:

Swedish ships will likely be part of the Pan European umbrella nationality.

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3 minutes ago, Lert said:

Swedish ships will likely be part of the Pan European umbrella nationality.

so, that tree would be simulair to the pan Asian one correct? lots of different nations' ships under 1 flag to fill in tech/tier holes?:Smile_unsure:

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4 minutes ago, BladedPheonix said:

so, that tree would be simulair to the pan Asian one correct? lots of different nations' ships under 1 flag to fill in tech/tier holes?:Smile_unsure:

There would be nothing researchable in that nationality, just premiums under the same umbrella nationality for captain sharing. At least, that's what WG is planning for the pan-european tree, as far as I understand.

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2 hours ago, Lert said:

There is no way those ships could function as battleships in this game. You compare them to South Carolina, but these are smaller than most destroyers in this game, at least by length - and by tonnage they're also nowhere near South Carolina.

South Carolina:

  • 18.5 knots
  • 16,257 ton
  • 8x 305mm
  • 12" belt
  • 138m length

Ilmarinen and Vainamonen:

  • 14.5 knots - slower than anything currently in the game
  • 3,900 ton - less than a quarter of South Carolina's displacement
  • 4x 10" guns - half the amount of barrels, smaller caliber
  • 2" belt - USS Omaha would pity these ships. Hell, HMS Caledon would
  • 93m length - less than 3/4 of South Carolina's length - closer to 2/3

As you see, there is no way these would even begin to compete with South Carolina on anything resembling an even playing field.

Maaaaybe as cruisers, but here their low speed would prevent them from being anything close to resembling 'flexible'.

 

>2 inch belt
>Getting citadeled by Smith / Tachibana

I think it can only be expressed with Spurdo.
image.png.179f36cec5e92e9c5bdeb6ef29eb60ee.png

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On 12/19/2018 at 2:14 AM, Lert said:

There is no way those ships could function as battleships in this game. You compare them to South Carolina, but these are smaller than most destroyers in this game, at least by length - and by tonnage they're also nowhere near South Carolina.

South Carolina:

  • 18.5 knots
  • 16,257 ton
  • 8x 305mm
  • 12" belt
  • 138m length

Ilmarinen and Vainamonen:

  • 14.5 knots - slower than anything currently in the game
  • 3,900 ton - less than a quarter of South Carolina's displacement
  • 4x 10" guns - half the amount of barrels, smaller caliber
  • 2" belt - USS Omaha would pity these ships. Hell, HMS Caledon would
  • 93m length - less than 3/4 of South Carolina's length - closer to 2/3

As you see, there is no way these would even begin to compete with South Carolina on anything resembling an even playing field.

Maaaaybe as cruisers, but here their low speed would prevent them from being anything close to resembling 'flexible'.

 



So, like, why is the Mikasa in the game when it is everything you said why the Vainamoinen shouldn't be in the game??

Have you actually ever played this game? And people wonder why this game has bugs, broken mechanics and still unfinished matchmaker when the supertesters don't even know what's in the game.

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4 minutes ago, Destin65 said:

So, like, why is the Mikasa in the game when it is everything you said why the Vainamoinen shouldn't be in the game??

But you didn't compare them to Mikasa. You compared them to South Carolina.

<Edit> Besides, Mikasa is hardly a success of a premium. I'm assuming you want these to be good ships.

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Yes, from a physical, descriptive comparison in how similar a profile they have. Beyond that, I made no other comparison since, yes, I already knew the South Carolina was the bigger ship. That's why the Vainamoinen would be a tier 2 and not a tier 3.

I mean, why not? People love having ships in the game, even pure fantasy or paper ships. Why not real, actual ships that served?

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I suppose it would probably not be a true battleship, yes, which is why I used the term pocket battleship to denote that it was not a true battleship, much like the HMS Hood is a battlecruiser and not actually a full battleship. I suppose the Vainamoinen and Ilmarinen would end up like the Graf Spee. Cruisers with battleship guns.

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3 minutes ago, Destin65 said:

Yes, from a physical, descriptive comparison in how similar a profile they have. Beyond that, I made no other comparison since, yes, I already knew the South Carolina was the bigger ship. That's why the Vainamoinen would be a tier 2 and not a tier 3.

I mean, why not? People love having ships in the game, even pure fantasy or paper ships. Why not real, actual ships that served?

Ah, but you specifically said size. Also, never mentioned tiers. So that is the basis I went from.

They could work as tier 2, but even then, Mikasa outclasses them in every respect. More powerful guns, more armor, faster, more hit points.

Like I said, I'd see these function as cruisers, not BBs.

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Vainomonien. Wasn't really a battleship, it was more like a coastal defense vessel. 10 inch guns, very thin armor of. I think it was 4 inches thick at best. Yeah, this thing as a "battleship" would probably go up, very quickly. The SC is far superior to the I Vainomonien. Hell even cruisers would have a field day citadeling it to death.

Now how about it being a cruiser, hmm... maybe. 

I know this is a very late reply. But whatever.

Edited by Starfleet1701

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Soo - why there are multiple nonexistent russ BB:s? We finns imediately draw from our pockets historically " accurate" type Yamato class armada! 

We finns still have world class huge shipyard which can build bigger ships than us navys carriers! 

And we build nazi-germanys first submarines in Vulcan-Cricton  yard.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crichton-Vulcan

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On 12/19/2018 at 12:15 PM, The_Painted_Target said:

>2 inch belt
>Getting citadeled by Smith / Tachibana

Ilmarinen and Väinämöinen are ment to operate behind islands or 2. Both ships does not even have sufficient magazines for ammo and powder. Ålands demilitarization make these ships so they are actually coastal batteries to protect that small islands group. 

 

They are not good. Artillery and optics and rangefinders hovever are top notch. They can operate in very shallow waters. 

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Remember - we finns were almost totally FARMERS. No real army whatsoever. Just farmers who hunts for living. 

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48 minutes ago, Finnkax said:

Remember - we finns were almost totally FARMERS. No real army whatsoever. Just farmers who hunts for living. 

Hyperbole.

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