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Admiral_Snoop_Dogg

Axis vs. Allies game mode?

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I just had a random thought.

To keep the game fresh, a game mode that I wouldn't mind seeing added in the future is an Axis vs. Allies game mode.

Basically, it plays out similarly to random battles, but with an extra matchmaking rule that all Allied ships are put into one team and all Axis ships are put in the other.

If you queue up in an Allied ship, you'll be placed in the Allied queue, and vice versa for Axis ships. In the case of French ships, I guess they can be put in either team as a wild card?

I'm sure matchmaking times will be longer for this mode, but it's something I'd like to try just for immersion.

 

What do you guys think? Would you like to see something like this implemented into the future or not?

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Someone suggested a similar idea a while back, but the Allies will smash the Axis ship lines horribly.  Forgive my cut & paste to reply here, but I feel my reply there is still valid in this case.

=============

Considering this is NA server also...  But if we go with a supposed equal player representation between Axis & Allied teams, IMO it still looks bad for Axis.  Why?  Allies for the sheer selection of capabilities.  Especially Radar.

 

The BB Lineups will be interesting.

Axis has IJN gunnery and IJN 460 Overmatch.

German Turtlebacks and Secondaries.

German BB Hydrro

The 3 Torpedo BBs are German.

Best BB AA are Allied.

RN BB HE.

French BB secondaries to contend with German secondaries.

Missouri Radar.

Lots of thick deck armor on upper tier Axis BBs.  50mm decks on plenty of German BBs, 57mm or so in Izumo and Yamato-class.  This means that they eat less raw HE damage as more HE shells that land on these portions of the ship will Non-Pen and do no direct shell damage.  Fires?  Still can happen, but it's a lot better to only eat Fire damage and not eat a bunch of HE shell damage on top of that.  On the flip side, lots of thin 32mm armor sections found on RN and French BBs.  They are highly susceptible to HE spam.

 

Cruisers:

***All the Radar Cruisers are Allied***  This is a highly significant advantage!

The best Cruiser AA are mostly in Allied lines.

German and IJN Cruiser Gunnery as a whole, are good at range.

German Cruiser HE Pen lets them get HE shell damage very easily.  They will HE Pen even the 50mm decks found on Moskva, etc.

IJN CA HE shells are fire starters.

+/- USN Cruisers with their floaty shells are a problem hitting distant targets with, but they can lob these things over islands and can be a PITA to deal with.

USN CA & RN CL AP with their special bounce angles.

USN CA SHS AP shells for Tier VIII+.

Allied Cruiser Spammers:  Atlanta, Worcester, Minotaur.

RU Cruiser Railguns to give Allied Cruisers open water, long ranged lazorz.

High Tier IJN CA Stealth + Long Ranged Torpedoes are dangerous defensively and for kiting.

German Hydro is the best Hydro in the game, and German Cruisers have the best of the best of German Hydro.

 

Destroyers:

IJN Gunboats of the Akizuki family are quite strong as Gunboats.

Heavy torpedo loads from IJN DDs.  TRB consumables are IJN DD-only.

The Allies look really good here for being more rounded cap contesters while still having notable torpedo boats like Fletcher, Gearing, Yueyang, Chung Mu.

RU DDs for Gunboating.

USN DD smoke.

Allied DDs operating with the advantage of All Radar Cruisers are on their side.  How would you like to play an Allied DD and know for a fact that every single Radar ship in the game is ON YOUR SIDE NO MATTER WHAT?  Even the ONE Battleship with Radar is Allied.

- Edit:  The ONE Destroyer with Radar is also Allied... Black.

All the DDs that can realistically take a decent or great AA Spec and have Defensive Fire are all Allied DDs.

German DDs operating with Hydro eventually.

There are some good Axis DDs but as a whole, the array of Allied DDs are just too good in options and capabilities.

 

 

Carriers:

For most of the tiers, IJN CVs are extremely strong.  Zuiho is the only one that cannot go toe-to-toe with a US CV.  Every other IJN CV is straight up better or on par.

Graf Zeppelin, Kaga, Taiho, Hakuryu for Axis Strike Shennanigans.

IJN Triple TB Strike Specs in Tier VII (Kaga), IX-X.

Lots of Stinker USN CVs in the game:  Tier VI-IX, especially VII-IX.

More common AP Bomber access is found on Allied CVs.  Graf Zeppelin is the only AP bomber capable Axis CV.

The most vulnerable BBs to AP Bombers are Axis... German Battleships.

Midway is Allied.

Best performance USN CVs will lean very heavily on Langley, Bogue, Premium Enterprise, Midway.

Axis CVs will be dealing with most of the game's best AA being concentrated in Allied Ship Lines.  Best BB AA?  Allied.  Best Cruiser AA?  Allied.  Even a number of USN DDs can be specced for surprising AA and going so far as to have Defensive Fire.

Edited by HazeGrayUnderway

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Holy crap I played that game for years and we have a great many current and retired field grade officers and generals that have played that game........and no, I won't name names.......  But, believe me, we played the crap out of that game..... From all sides.  WoW...........what a memory you caused !

Some of us still play games.....  In fact, there are entire regimental affiliations that currently play in an organized manner..........not in WoWs that I know of unfortunately.  After all, this is a ship game and we are all Armor types.....  And no, WoTs is such a joke; and, we were there for two weeks and uninstalled at the very beginning....    Sorry, not even close.

Axis and Allies......wow.

Edited by Asym_KS
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I for one like it a lot. Would like to seen more historical scenarios like the Battles of Savo Island, Channel Dash, Hunt for the Bismark or Battle of Navrik where one gets a chance to rewrite history.

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Historical battles are usually arranged as player sponsored events.  The second or third Battle of Jutland just happened last Friday, for instance:

 

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7 hours ago, slokill_1 said:

Yea make it an option.  But what about the French and Italians?

One will start Allied but then half the ships will defect to the Axis early on, only to switch sides again late in the game. The other will start Axis but then quit playing when seriously attacked. The Brits and Commonwealth will start for the Allied forces but it will be a few minutes before the Americans join, and only if they are attacked by the Japanese. The end game will pretty much be the Americans fighting the Japanese, until the Russians decide to play the warship game.  

Edited by Snargfargle
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3 hours ago, Airglide2 said:

So just have it up to T7 then?

Why?  You're also excluding many of the best out of those Allied lines that aren't even Radar Cruisers.

USN BBs don't get good until Tier VIII, for example.

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Been asking for a mode like this since WoWs was in Beta.

Sadly, WG has ignored the requests (but tried to deflect the issue with Scenarios).

Great idea that many people want. But WG just refuses to put time into something that would require a little effort to implement. But hey! We're getting a whole line of fake Russian Battleships! YAY!

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This has been implemented already in scenario mode (Cherry Blossom and Dunkirk) by all means correct me if I am wrong. Now if you're thinking to make it for Random.. Not going to knock it but i'll try it.

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34 minutes ago, HazeGrayUnderway said:

Why?  You're also excluding many of the best out of those Allied lines that aren't even Radar Cruisers.

USN BBs don't get good until Tier VIII, for example.

??? Seriously, how do people suffer from the delusion that Colorado is crap and NC is fantastic? Colorado is built like a brick and has great accuracy while NC eats cits from all angles and can barely hit the water (which I attribute more to gravity then design).

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4 minutes ago, JediMasterDraco said:

??? Seriously, how do people suffer from the delusion that Colorado is crap and NC is fantastic? Colorado is built like a brick and has great accuracy while NC eats cits from all angles and can barely hit the water (which I attribute more to gravity then design).

Colorado is trash.  You are right though, she is a brick.  She sinks like one.

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by avoiding pure Axis vs. Allies in PvP WG has avoided all the inevitable baggage that would come along with it.

 

by keeping mixed teams of nations ships with little in the way of "Axis vs. Allies" you avoid quite a lot of the baggage that would be generated over time in PvP.

 

then you have the question of the Italians :Smile_hiding:

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10 minutes ago, HazeGrayUnderway said:

Colorado is trash.  You are right though, she is a brick.  She sinks like one.

You can believe whatever you want it doesn't mean you're right. 

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11 minutes ago, TheNargacuga said:

You can believe whatever you want it doesn't mean you're right. 

It's a fact.

21kts, SLOW.  Doesn't require much leading.

25mm armor bow and deck.  Easy to pen and get raw damage.  Easy to Overmatch, but that's a common Tier VII BB problem.

Easy to Citadel.

MASSIVE SUPERSTRUCTURE:  Perfect for the Spammers to get lots of hits against.

Colorado in her history in WoWS has never had a reputation of accuracy.  Yet her Sigma was nerfed when she got her HP buff to bring her on par with Nagato's HP levels.

Edited by HazeGrayUnderway

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6 hours ago, Asym_KS said:

Holy crap I played that game for years and we have a great many current and retired field grade officers and generals that have played that game........and no, I won't name names.......  But, believe me, we played the crap out of that game..... From all sides.  WoW...........what a memory you caused !

Some of us still play games.....  In fact, there are entire regimental affiliations that currently play in an organized manner..........not in WoWs that I know of unfortunately.  After all, this is a ship game and we are all Armor types.....  And no, WoTs is such a joke; and, we were there for two weeks and uninstalled at the very beginning....    Sorry, not even close.

Axis and Allies......wow.

I too with friends played the snot out of A&A...board and PC versions. The board game gets a reboot every couple of years; its good to see the game going strong this many years later.

Have you and your guys tried World in Flames (board and/or PC version)?

As to the OP...as was stated previously, this idea has been tossed around-and tossed out. Haze makes some good points, but I think que times would be the major issue. Trying to get an evenly matched A&A line up would likely take too long to be realistic.

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7 hours ago, HazeGrayUnderway said:

Why?  You're also excluding many of the best out of those Allied lines that aren't even Radar Cruisers.

USN BBs don't get good until Tier VIII, for example.

Look Radar abuse is a good point to make, so I’ll pick tiers that don’t have or have very little Radar.  I’m not going to nitpick which ship will do worst and what will do best.  I’m just looking for Allied vs. Axis mode.  If it’s that terrible, then like every good idea, WG will just sledgehammer it and move on (See Bastion).

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7 hours ago, HazeGrayUnderway said:

Colorado is trash.  You are right though, she is a brick.  She sinks like one.

I did 39K average damage with Colorado, and do about 56K average damage with King George V.

I think this idea is very interesting as a battle mode, as it will cause in many cases people to learn more about these ships and their theaters of operation in general. WG did try to make these ships resemble their real counterparts. For instance, read about the Helena battles at Savo Island in the Pacific. Their were DD torps everywhere, ships being beached so they wouldn't sink, friendly shell and torp damage, ships close enough to see each other's crew at night, firefights, etc.

Possibly Atlantic-Mediterranean (USN-RN versus German-Italian), and Pacific (RN-USN versus IJN). The French ships pretty much had to stay out of it or be sunk at the dock, which the Brits did do. 

What if it increased gameplay ??? Try it out on the PTS as a MM battle mode and see what happens.

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It's a good thought but never pans out in play. People get patriotic and tend to play the ships of there nations, I've been in games that tried this and that has always happened and made things very lopsided. Tech trees are also not balanced for it

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17 minutes ago, Ericson38 said:

I did 39K average damage with Colorado, and do about 56K average damage with King George V.

I think this idea is very interesting as a battle mode, as it will cause in many cases people to learn more about these ships and their theaters of operation in general. WG did try to make these ships resemble their real counterparts. For instance, read about the Helena battles at Savo Island in the Pacific. Their were DD torps everywhere, ships being beached so they wouldn't sink, friendly shell and torp damage, ships close enough to see each other's crew at night, firefights, etc.

Possibly Atlantic-Mediterranean (USN-RN versus German-Italian), and Pacific (RN-USN versus IJN). The French ships pretty much had to stay out of it or be sunk at the dock, which the Brits did do. 

What if it increased gameplay ??? Try it out on the PTS as a MM battle mode and see what happens.

It'll be a decent alternative mode until people start whining about all the faction disparities.

 

World of Warplanes at around this time last year did an Allied / Axis event.  Normally in the game it's mixed nationalities for a team.  Typically I can fly my Bf109 and there'd be some guy in his Mustang on the same team.  But for the event, it was Allies vs Axis faction teams.  Apparently there weren't enough Axis aficionados to offset the massive Allied ones.  Axis had zero chance.

1.  There's not enough Axis players so a full team of Allies beat up on Axis bots instead and get easy event points.

2.  There's not enough Axis players, so you get a handful of them with bots filling the remaining of the roster, against a team full of Allied players.

3.  Axis were fighting players 100% of the time, working hard for their event points.  Allies not necessarily so.

4.  As time progressed and the snowball effect increased, more people bailed on the Axis and pulled an Italian Job and became Allied.  Something similar happened in World of Warships' own Shark vs Eagle event.  It became Sharks were the obvious winners so guess which team people migrated to?  Team Sharks!

 

In WoWS we're normally mixed teams, so nationality disparity isn't really an issue.  But once we start restricting, things will start getting problematic.

Edited by HazeGrayUnderway

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1 hour ago, Airglide2 said:

Look Radar abuse is a good point to make, so I’ll pick tiers that don’t have or have very little Radar.  I’m not going to nitpick which ship will do worst and what will do best.  I’m just looking for Allied vs. Axis mode.  If it’s that terrible, then like every good idea, WG will just sledgehammer it and move on (See Bastion).

Warthunder has that mode and it works just fine over there. 

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7 minutes ago, HazeGrayUnderway said:

World of Warplanes at around this time last year did an Allied / Axis event. 

 I would have been surprised if there were enough players to fill out two teams of 12. I never understood why anyone would play World Of Warplanes considering the alternatives that are out there. It would be like choosing to watch your favorite show on a 12 inch black and white TV instead of a 55 inch 4k HDTV.

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39 minutes ago, HazeGrayUnderway said:

It'll be a decent alternative mode until people start whining about all the faction disparities.

 

World of Warplanes at around this time last year did an Allied / Axis event.  Normally in the game it's mixed nationalities for a team.  Typically I can fly my Bf109 and there'd be some guy in his Mustang on the same team.  But for the event, it was Allies vs Axis faction teams.  Apparently there weren't enough Axis aficionados to offset the massive Allied ones.  Axis had zero chance.

1.  There's not enough Axis players so a full team of Allies beat up on Axis bots instead and get easy event points.

2.  There's not enough Axis players, so you get a handful of them with bots filling the remaining of the roster, against a team full of Allied players.

3.  Axis were fighting players 100% of the time, working hard for their event points.  Allies not necessarily so.

4.  As time progressed and the snowball effect increased, more people bailed on the Axis and pulled an Italian Job and became Allied.  Something similar happened in World of Warships' own Shark vs Eagle event.  It became Sharks were the obvious winners so guess which team people migrated to?  Team Sharks!

 

In WoWS we're normally mixed teams, so nationality disparity isn't really an issue.  But once we start restricting, things will start getting problematic.

Oh yeeeeeah, I forgot about that event.  But WOWS actually did have something similar to that and it was called GO NAVY! and The Clash.  So WG has been down this road before about pitting sides, they can handle themselves.

Edited by Airglide2

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