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kgh52

What angers me most about HE

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It is the simple fact that I see a lot of BB's using HE against other BB's when AP is the better choice. I'm not talking about RN BB's either but US, German & IJN BB's. Not all HE works the same.

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it's a side effect of the addition of RN BB. Their HE is so good that BB player rediscover the number 1 button.

 

And considering how your average BB player complain about getting ricochet or overpen against other ship, these player will most likely be spamming HE all days because " HE doesn't overpen or bounce".

 

Well, there is no point in spamming AP against a bow on Kurfurst tho, you might as well just switch to HE and start some fire.

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2 minutes ago, AlcatrazNC said:

it's a side effect of the addition of RN BB. Their HE is so good that BB player rediscover the number 1 button.

 

And considering how your average BB player complain about getting ricochet or overpen against other ship, these player will most likely be spamming HE all days because " HE doesn't overpen or bounce".

 

Well, there is no point in spamming AP against a bow on Kurfurst tho, you might as well just switch to HE and start some fire.

It's also a side effect of the change to AP vs DDs.  

 

7 minutes ago, kgh52 said:

It is the simple fact that I see a lot of BB's using HE against other BB's when AP is the better choice. I'm not talking about RN BB's either but US, German & IJN BB's. Not all HE works the same.

Sometimes you've loaded HE for a DD or maybe for a BB that's well angled, but before the reload is complete, the DD disappears or the angled BB opens up his broadside, and you end up with a suboptimal ammo choice.  That's life.  IT WILL HAPPEN!!!    When situations changes in a matter of a small handful of seconds but BB guns reload in about 30 seconds, you will often end up with suboptimal ammo choices.  DDs and cruisers don't have to deal with this so much because their guns reload so much faster.  But BBs are in a terrible situation when it comes to ammo choice due to their long reloads.

 

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9 minutes ago, kgh52 said:

It is the simple fact that I see a lot of BB's using HE against other BB's when AP is the better choice. I'm not talking about RN BB's either but US, German & IJN BB's. Not all HE works the same.

Agreed. That's bad but infinitely worse when you see them firing HE at broadside cruisers, unless you are the cruiser.

Just nerf BB fire chance by 50% globally and you'd see a big change, for the better in my opinion.

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At some angles even Yamato is better off firing HE than AP at another BB. Its better to get 6000+ certain damage plus chance of fire than a guaranteed triple overpens with multiple AA mounts stopping a 1 ton shell from hitting the hull.

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4 minutes ago, Crucis said:

It's also a side effect of the change to AP vs DDs.  

 

Sometimes you've loaded HE for a DD or maybe for a BB that's well angled, but before the reload is complete, the DD disappears or the angled BB opens up his broadside, and you end up with a suboptimal ammo choice.  That's life.  IT WILL HAPPEN!!!    When situations changes in a matter of a small handful of seconds but BB guns reload in about 30 seconds, you will often end up with suboptimal ammo choices.  DDs and cruisers don't have to deal with this so much because their guns reload so much faster.  But BBs are in a terrible situation when it comes to ammo choice due to their long reloads.

 

This is true however, lately I've seen way too many BBs exclusively firing HE. If they're red, have at it, but I don't want that on my side.

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19 minutes ago, Wye_So_Serious said:

This is true however, lately I've seen way too many BBs exclusively firing HE. If they're red, have at it, but I don't want that on my side.

So I use HE Quite a bit on BBs. I tend to set fires and then reload with and use AP while they burn. That's my style. That's what I do. 

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20 minutes ago, Crucis said:

It's also a side effect of the change to AP vs DDs.  

AP is still better most of the time. AP will almost always do damage, HE can get absorbed by modules pretty frequently and barely does more if it doesn't anyway. Knocking out modules is nice, but I would rather sink what I am shooting at. 

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So.

Montana engages a well prepared Yamato.  No easy angle to fire against the Yamato because she's bow on, angled.  Montana's AP will do very poorly in that situation while Yamato will likely get Penetrations with her AP at the very least, Citadels at worst, which is still quite possible.  If you don't switch to HE as Montana, you're an idiot.

 

You use the shells appropriate for the situation.  This was so when the game was new.  This is so today.

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35 minutes ago, Filthy_Pelican said:

So I use HE Quite a bit on BBs. I tend to set fires and then reload with and use AP while they burn. That's my style. That's what I do. 

That's right, that is not exclusive use of HE.

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1 hour ago, AlcatrazNC said:

it's a side effect of the addition of RN BB. Their HE is so good that BB player rediscover the number 1 button.

 

And considering how your average BB player complain about getting ricochet or overpen against other ship, these player will most likely be spamming HE all days because " HE doesn't overpen or bounce".

 

Well, there is no point in spamming AP against a bow on Kurfurst tho, you might as well just switch to HE and start some fire.

Unless you know you can destroy his front guns...

Shhh....its a secret tactic for French and Ijn high caliber guns....

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8 minutes ago, dEsTurbed1 said:

Unless you know you can destroy his front guns...

Shhh....its a secret tactic for French and Ijn high caliber guns....

Sadly that doesn't really work anymore. Ive fired Yamato AP at training room BBs at 2km distance and seen the shells hit the turrets...and nothing happen despite several salvos fired on it.

Long ago you could literally knock out a BB's main armament completely out (destroyed) at close range...but now gameplay has been catered to the lowest common denominator and guns at random 'get knocked out' but can be repaired instantly with a magic button.

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1 hour ago, Skyfaller said:

Sadly that doesn't really work anymore. Ive fired Yamato AP at training room BBs at 2km distance and seen the shells hit the turrets...and nothing happen despite several salvos fired on it.

Long ago you could literally knock out a BB's main armament completely out (destroyed) at close range...but now gameplay has been catered to the lowest common denominator and guns at random 'get knocked out' but can be repaired instantly with a magic button.

You can still disarm other BBs with BB AP.  That has never changed.

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People are making choices about ammo. Some choose wisely, some choose poorly. Isn't that great? I mean, I have played games where there is one choice for the best results, and everyone did that, and it was very boring. Choice is good. 

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8 minutes ago, Wombatmetal said:

People are making choices about ammo. Some choose wisely, some choose poorly. Isn't that great? I mean, I have played games where there is one choice for the best results, and everyone did that, and it was very boring. Choice is good. 

I mean, when this game was new, BBs across the board switched shells as appropriate.  Even in the old launch days, with the original BB AP & HE shell characteristics that were just changed, BBs would prefer to fire HE at DDs, but they'll fire whatever they got loaded.  They were looking to punish with AP, but even then, more BBs knew HE had its place.  A far cry from what's gone on for years now, "AP everything!  Everything!  Why's it not working against that guy???"

 

There was a scenario I remember when Montana was a relatively new ship to me.  I was kiting 2 healthy BBs, an Iowa and Izumo.  I kited.  Since these ships were bow on trying to run me down (this was before Montana got her speed buff, originally she was 27kts like NC), I elected to fire HE.  For me to fire 406mm AP into the faces of 2 Tier IX BBs was sheer idiocy. 

 

So... I fed Iowa a few Montana HE salvos to the face.  Got a bunch of HE Pens and a fire.  Iowa remembered he had an appointment elsewhere, slowed down, turned away and went into concealment.

 

Izumo kept on chasing me.  It took a couple of HE salvos, but after Izumo got tired of the HE Pens and fires he kept pushing closer and closer.  Eventually the Izumo didn't like the pens and fires anymore and made a mistake... Tried to do a 180 degree turn.  When someone is about to change their mind like that, you can kind of see it in their sailing.  They drop their speed, you can see the hestiation.  I switched to AP well before the turn anticipating it and when it happened, Citadel City.

 

You use the shells appropriate to the situation.

Edited by HazeGrayUnderway

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I hate being a BB HE player but after the last 5 games  in a BB I will have to become one.  The DD players have learned they can charge at any tier a BB and close to point blank range and the BB can not dodge the torps.  Even the Yammy cannot survive 6 or 8 torps.  The DD just cannot be damaged enough. Each DD has enough hit points for at least 3 charges at BBs.  That's 3 BBs dead!    The cruisers who should support the BBs cant survive without hiding  so the BBs are dead.  HE is the BBs only hope.  Sad  WG has so screwed up HE.

 

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Got 1 citadel hit from full salvo broadside in my Tirpitz at the Yammy and got accused of hack. The Yammy driver fuel my anger

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2 hours ago, Skyfaller said:

Sadly that doesn't really work anymore. Ive fired Yamato AP at training room BBs at 2km distance and seen the shells hit the turrets...and nothing happen despite several salvos fired on it.

Long ago you could literally knock out a BB's main armament completely out (destroyed) at close range...but now gameplay has been catered to the lowest common denominator and guns at random 'get knocked out' but can be repaired instantly with a magic button.

Yesterday I had my Massachusetts 2nd turret destroyed In 1 salvo from musashi at 6km.

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10 minutes ago, dEsTurbed1 said:

Yesterday I had my Massachusetts 2nd turret destroyed In 1 salvo from musashi at 6km.

You can disarm easily those French 380mm armed Battleships.  With their 4 gun turret design, they have massive faces that simply catch lots of shells.  The funny thing is they are angled and about as thick in the turret face as the 16"/45 turrets on North Carolina, SoDak-class.  Yet nobody ever complains about their Tier VIII USN BB turrets getting KO'd easily.  It's simply the French 380mm turrets are so wide they catch shells.  Conqueror 419mm turrets are also very squishy.

Edited by HazeGrayUnderway

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1 minute ago, HazeGrayUnderway said:

You can disarm easily those French 380mm armed Battleships.  With their 4 gun turret design, they have massive faces that simply catch lots of shells.  Conqueror 419mm turrets are also very squishy.

I was replying to someone saying it doesn't happen anymore. 

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1 minute ago, HazeGrayUnderway said:

You can disarm easily those French 380mm armed Battleships.  With their 4 gun turret design, they have massive faces that simply catch lots of shells.  Conqueror 419mm turrets are also very squishy.

If I'm bow on to a bow on....

I'm shooting for second turret/superstructure. 

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21 minutes ago, dEsTurbed1 said:

If I'm bow on to a bow on....

I'm shooting for second turret/superstructure. 

When I fight the 2 front turreted Richelieu, Alsace, Jean Bart, I aim between the bottom of the 2nd turret and top of the 1st turret.  The 2nd turret / one closest to the bridge is very easy to destroy.  Once that's done, it's a simple matter of being more precise to hit the remaining forward turret.

 

I ran into this problem long ago, even before the French BBs officially released.  Remember when WG had those Crate drops that gave a chance for missions to earn Bretagne, Normandie, Lyon, and Richelieu?  Richelieu was one of the ones I luckily got.  One of my interesting events was in the old Islands of Ice, fighting in Cap A.  My Richelieu was attacking from the east of that cap.  A Missouri was reversing to get side cover and to back away... I had help with me.  This was brawling range.  10km or less.  I was in a shootout with Missouri but I had massive problems.  He kept on disabling my turrets, eventually I lost my 2nd turret, leaving me with 1 turret with 4 guns only.  I tried to do the same against Missouri's turrets but I was not having success.  Missouri hit, disabled my remaining turret.  Honestly, 1-2 more salvos he'd have destroyed all my turrets.  But my backup killed Missouri.

 

When the French BB Line officially released, since I had Richelieu already with ample XPs, I got Alsace on Day 1 of release.  Her turrets had the exact same vulnerabilities.  Wonderful BBs, but squishy turrets.

 

Edit:  Richelieu & Alsace barbettes are 405mm

ug7fHKL.jpg

You can see how tall they stand out.  Note how tall the 2nd turret rises above the forward where the barbette is exposed.  Then look at the AP Penetration of a few of these BBs she can encounter:

MQmXgeT.png

The high penetration of BB AP in brawling ranges will cut through 405mm barbettes easily.  Then look at how North Carolina's turret arrangement is and see that the barbette, which is about as thick as the French one, is protected by the turret face.  406mm, angled.

SHG9NEv.jpg

And again, nobody complains about their USN BBs getting disarmed like the French ones are.

 

Republique doesn't have this problem because of her 1 turret on bow / stern design, her barbettes are low.  She also has better angled turret faces with much thicker armor, a practice the other large gun BBs have as guns got bigger.  Even Conqueror's 457mm turrets have a very thick face compared to her 419mm turrets.

Edited by HazeGrayUnderway
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Using any one shell type exclusively is shooting yourself in the foot and diminishing efficiency. Depending on the gun type and angle/type of BB should determine which ammo. In T10 where most people know how to angle well, HE is your best bet. But as soon as I see a turn coming I’m switching AP and trying to crack the cit.            However, in cruisers I also switch it up based on range and enemy. Up close I will absolutely send a point blank salvo of AP right at the guts of even BBs. I do the same with DDs against CAs. It’s fun when opponents are one dimensional.

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