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1Sherman

The 2019 Rock n' Roll Hall of Fame inductees have been announced.

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Instead of the usual five, there are seven inductees this year: Def Leppard, Stevie Nicks, Radiohead, the Zombies, Janet Jackson, Roxy Music, and The Cure. I'm glad to see most of them (in particular the Zombies and Radiohead because of their influence in the genre) with one exception: Todd Rundgren should have gotten in instead of Stevie. He is a great producer and has influenced basically every person who's ever turned their basement into a recording studio in an attempt to become the next big rockstar. I guess I'll add him onto the list of egregious snubs with Supertramp, Bad Company, Motorhead, Iron Maiden, Ronnie James Dio, Iron Maiden, the Guess Who, and King Crimson.

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11 minutes ago, 1Sherman said:

Instead of the usual five, there are seven inductees this year: Def Leppard, Stevie Nicks, Radiohead, the Zombies, Janet Jackson, Roxy Music, and The Cure. I'm glad to see most of them (in particular the Zombies and Radiohead because of their influence in the genre) with one exception: Todd Rundgren should have gotten in instead of Stevie. He is a great producer and has influenced basically every person who's ever turned their basement into a recording studio in an attempt to become the next big rockstar. I guess I'll add him onto the list of egregious snubs with Supertramp, Bad Company, Motorhead, Iron Maiden, Ronnie James Dio, Iron Maiden, the Guess Who, and King Crimson.

And a common thread (except Dio) not American..................

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That is actually a rather good list of inductees for a change.

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Janet Jackson! I can see her and Madonna in a Pop All of Fame but not the RnR HOF.   What a joke this outfit has become.

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7 hours ago, Snargfargle said:

Bout time.

 

That was with Fleetwood Mac. Stevie never reached those heights on her own.

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6 hours ago, 1Sherman said:

That was with Fleetwood Mac. Stevie never reached those heights on her own.

You know, it's interesting when you look at singers on their own but the Beatle, other than McCartney, who really succeeded in producing hit singles was Ringo Starr.

I still thing Nix should be inducted. Music sometimes is about skill in songwriting and intellect, as with Dylan, but too it is about innate talent. Like it or not, we recognize those who were born with a unique voice no matter if they have anything else going for them or not. Nix has/had a unique voice.

A future inductee will be Alicia Moore. Of the female singers active during the past 15 years, she is arguably among the most talented.

 

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2 hours ago, Snargfargle said:

You know, it's interesting when you look at singers on their own but the Beatle, other than McCartney, who really succeeded in producing hit singles was Ringo Starr.

I still thing Nix should be inducted. Music sometimes is about skill in songwriting and intellect, as with Dylan, but too it is about innate talent. Like it or not, we recognize those who were born with a unique voice no matter if they have anything else going for them or not. Nix has/had a unique voice.

 

Getting inducted is not just about hit singles. It also has a lot to do with an artist's influence and their impact on the music industry. George Harrison's All Things Must Pass and John Lennon's Imagine had more influence on future musicians and impact on the industry than most of Paul's non-Wings solo work (and a fair bit of his time with Wings as well) and all of Ringo's solo career. Not only that, but George did in fact have #1 hits on the Billboard charts with My Sweet Lord and Got My Mind Set On You, and John got to #1 while working with Elton John and David Bowie (he played guitar on Fame from the Young Americans album).

Stevie Nicks definitely has the innate talent and unique voice you mentioned, but she lacks the impact or the influence when not as a part of Fleetwood Mac. Songs like Edge of Seventeen, Stop Dragging My Heart Around, and Leather and Lace show that she has the chops, but they simply don't carry the same significance in the annals of popular music that songs like Rhiannon, Landslide, Dreams, Silver Springs, Gypsy, and Gold Dust Woman do.

Rumours-era Fleetwood Mac was a band greater than the sum of its parts: Stevie Nicks brought her ethereal, otherworldly grace, Lindsey Buckingham brought his manic creativity and torrential passion, Christine McVie brought her pop sensibilities and endlessly catchy songwriting, and John McVie and Mick Fleetwood anchored them down with one of rock's all-time best rhythm sections. Together, they captured lightning in a bottle and created some of the best songs and albums in the history of popular music. While each member had the talent to be successful alone, none of them carried enough clout to be able to harness Fleetwood Mac's level of quality and impact for a solo career.

Todd Rundgren, on the other hand, has influence and impact in spades. He was always at the forefront of innovation: He actually designed the very first colour graphics tablet back in the 80s, he pioneered the usage of interactive entertainment in his concerts and songs, and pretty much every single aspiring musician who has ever turned their bedroom or their basement into a recording studio owes a debt of gratitude to Todd and his album A Wizard, a True Star. As for commercial success, the fact that he produced Bat Out Of Hell, Meat Loaf's gloriously excessive magnum opus, and Grand Funk Railroad's commercial breakthrough We're An American Band, among other albums, should be enough. If it isn't, he's also had a few songs on his own that were hits and still receive consistent airplay on classic rock radio, TV, and at sporting events.

 

To conclude, as good as Stevie Nicks is, she will never be more deserving of the Rock n' Roll Hall of Fame as a solo artist than Todd Rundgren. Her name will always be most highly regarded when it's mentioned as a part of Fleetwood Mac.

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At one time, half the girls in America wanted to be Stevie Nix; she was the Madonna of her time. She definitely had influence on the culture. She's also listed in the top 100 songwriters by Rolling Stone.

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1 hour ago, Snargfargle said:

At one time, half the girls in America wanted to be Stevie Nix; she was the Madonna of her time. She definitely had influence on the culture. She's also listed in the top 100 songwriters by Rolling Stone.

And since when has Rolling Stone gotten their lists right? She's good, but Christine and Lindsey were both better songwriters. As well, Fleetwood Mac as a whole was much more of a cultural phenomenon. Rumours is one of the best-selling albums of all time and is consistently ranked as one of the best ever made. My dad, who was finishing up high school in 1977 when it came out, has said that it was huge at the time. I even have the vinyl copy that he bought down in my basement in my record player. Fleetwood Mac was rock's greatest soap opera, and Rumours was their masterpiece. Stevie Nicks was simply one piece of the winning formula; She couldn't have done it without the rest of them.

Todd Rundgren, as I've been saying, was far more influential. If you were starting out on the path to being a rockstar in a basement or a bedroom somewhere (and in the 60s and 70s there were a LOT of people like that), you had a chance because of the work that Todd did. A generation of underground and upstart musicians existed because of him, and because of his influence and impact on the music industry, underground music would grow into the rise of alternative and indie rock in the 90s and 2000s.

Finally, you're misspelling her last name. Nix, spelled N-I-X, is a head lice shampoo. Her name is spelled N-I-C-K-S.

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1 hour ago, 1Sherman said:

And since when has Rolling Stone gotten their lists right? She's good, but Christine and Lindsey were both better songwriters. As well, Fleetwood Mac as a whole was much more of a cultural phenomenon. Rumours is one of the best-selling albums of all time and is consistently ranked as one of the best ever made. My dad, who was finishing up high school in 1977 when it came out, has said that it was huge at the time. I even have the vinyl copy that he bought down in my basement in my record player. Fleetwood Mac was rock's greatest soap opera, and Rumours was their masterpiece. Stevie Nicks was simply one piece of the winning formula; She couldn't have done it without the rest of them.

Todd Rundgren, as I've been saying, was far more influential. If you were starting out on the path to being a rockstar in a basement or a bedroom somewhere (and in the 60s and 70s there were a LOT of people like that), you had a chance because of the work that Todd did. A generation of underground and upstart musicians existed because of him, and because of his influence and impact on the music industry, underground music would grow into the rise of alternative and indie rock in the 90s and 2000s.

Finally, you're misspelling her last name. Nix, spelled N-I-X, is a head lice shampoo. Her name is spelled N-I-C-K-S.

First of all let me state for the record that I am a huge Stevie Nicks fan.

 

BUT...

For pure vocal beauty Christine McVie has, in my view superior vocal chops.  Stevie has that awesome smokey/sultry aspect but for pure beauty McVie has first place for me.

 

Totally agree that the snubbing of Rundgren is positively heinous.  It's one of the reasons that the R&R HOF has very poor credibility in my mind. And King Crimson is, apparently, suffering from "Yes Syndrome".  At one point the Hall of fame even said it hadn't inducted Yes because they weren't really rock and roll.  I'm betting Crimson is a similar case.  Gonna take a lobbying effort to get them in I think.

 

And where the hell is Alan Parsons?

Edited by Malamute_Kid
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28 minutes ago, Malamute_Kid said:

First of all let me state for the record that I am a huge Stevie Nicks fan.

 

BUT...

For pure vocal beauty Christine McVie has, in my view superior vocal chops.  Stevie has that awesome smokey/sultry aspect but for pure beauty McVie has first place for me.

 

Totally agree that the snubbing of Rundgren is positively heinous.  It's one of the reasons that the R&R HOF has very poor credibility in my mind. And King Crimson is, apparently, suffering from "Yes Syndrome".  At one point the Hall of fame even said it hadn't inducted Yes because they weren't really rock and roll.  I'm betting Crimson is a similar case.  Gonna take a lobbying effort to get them in I think.

 

And where the hell is Alan Parsons?

THANK YOU. I agree with every word you said. Christine McVie is my favourite of Fleetwood Mac's singers and songwriters, King Crimson should be in because In The Court Of the Crimson King basically invented prog, and the HoF saying that Yes "isn't rock n' roll" is extremely ironic considering that they inducted Madonna, NWA, and Tupac, all of whom are about as far from rock n' roll as you can possibly get.

Personally, I think the HoF needs to get more metal acts into the mix. I don't think they'll induct Iron Maiden or Judas Priest because they have been vocal in their hatred of the Hall, but giving some recognition to Motorhead and Ronnie James Dio would be a step in the right direction. With regards to rock n' roll acts, Supertramp, Grand Funk Railroad, Bad Company, the Guess Who, Link Wray, and of course Todd Rundgren all need to get in.

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3 hours ago, 1Sherman said:

Finally, you're misspelling her last name. Nix, spelled N-I-X, is a head lice shampoo. Her name is spelled N-I-C-K-S.

Speaking of lice, aren't you being a bit nit-picky there?

Actually, I never even heard of Fleetwood Mac until the 80s. During the 70s I was too busy being a soldier to listen to much music. We had a radio station when I was a kid but it was only country western. You could pick up rock station located 300 miles away only after midnight when the solar noise diminished. It was AM only back then, FM was non-existent in my neck of the woods. Now, a fellow can get on YouTube and listen to all those songs that he never got to listen to as a kid.

The Hall of Fame isn't just about songwriters, musicians, and producers. There are many inductees who were only singers of other people's songs. Like it or not, it is a recognition of popularity, cultural influence, and innate singing ability as much as skill in composing scores and writing lyrics.  

Edited by Snargfargle

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1 hour ago, Snargfargle said:

Speaking of lice, aren't you being a bit nit-picky there?

Actually, I never even heard of Fleetwood Mac until the 80s. During the 70s I was too busy being a soldier to listen to much music. We had a radio station when I was a kid but it was only country western. You could pick up rock station located 300 miles away only after midnight when the solar noise diminished. It was AM only back then, FM was non-existent in my neck of the woods. Now, a fellow can get on YouTube and listen to all those songs that he never got to listen to as a kid.

The Hall of Fame isn't just about songwriters, musicians, and producers. There are many inductees who were only singers of other people's songs. Like it or not, it is a recognition of popularity, cultural influence, and innate singing ability as much as skill in composing scores and writing lyrics.  

Growing up, the radio in my house was permanently tuned to the local country station; I knew basically nothing about rock n' roll until Iron Man introduced me to AC/DC. I hadn't heard of Fleetwood Mac until about 2 years ago, when my dad introduced them to me. I bought him a CD of Rumours for Christmas and I've probably listened to it about a hundred times. It remains the best album I've ever heard to date. My point is that it doesn't matter when you first heard of someone in music.

I am also aware that there are plenty of people in the HoF who aren't songwriters, musicians, or producers. However, they're all there because they changed the face of music forever. The Supremes were basically handed music to sing, but they got in because they were the darlings of Motown, the single most influential and successful studio of the 60s and, at one point, the largest employer of black people in the United States. Elvis didn't write any of his big hits, but he got in because he single-handedly made rock n' roll acceptable to white audiences and inspired literally everyone who came after him. You don't seem to get that outside of Fleetwood Mac, Stevie Nicks was never able to make that sort of impact and is as such undeserving of her spot in the HoF as a solo artist.

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On ‎12‎/‎13‎/‎2018 at 11:29 AM, 1Sherman said:

Instead of the usual five, there are seven inductees this year: Def Leppard, Stevie Nicks, Radiohead, the Zombies, Janet Jackson, Roxy Music, and The Cure. I'm glad to see most of them (in particular the Zombies and Radiohead because of their influence in the genre) with one exception: Todd Rundgren should have gotten in instead of Stevie. He is a great producer and has influenced basically every person who's ever turned their basement into a recording studio in an attempt to become the next big rockstar. I guess I'll add him onto the list of egregious snubs with Supertramp, Bad Company, Motorhead, Iron Maiden, Ronnie James Dio, Iron Maiden, the Guess Who, and King Crimson.

I'm here what did I miss?!  *kicks down the door*  *plays song*   PS        R.I.P Lemmy

 

Edited by MotorheadEddie

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1 hour ago, MotorheadEddie said:

I'm here what did I miss?!  *kicks down the door*  *plays song*   PS        R.I.P Lemmy

 

Not much, really. The big thing going on here is that @Snargfargle is too clouded by the pinups he had in his military days to see that Stevie Nicks shouldn't have gotten in and that Todd Rundgren is one of music's great innovators. Motorhead, as usual, has been disregarded despite being one of the greatest metal bands ever.

 

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4 hours ago, 1Sherman said:

Not much, really. The big thing going on here is that @Snargfargle is too clouded by the pinups he had in his military days to see that Stevie Nicks shouldn't have gotten in and that Todd Rundgren is one of music's great innovators. Motorhead, as usual, has been disregarded despite being one of the greatest metal bands ever.

Fleetwood Mac: Grammys 3
Motorhead: Grammys 1

FM album units sold: 84.55 million
MH albums sold: 15 million

Stevie Nicks net worth: 75 million
Lemmy's net worth: $646,000 when he died in 2015

FM Billboard top 100
1 NO. 1 HIT 9 TOP 10 HITS 25 SONGS

MH Billboard top 100
8 songs
 

I think that, overall, Stevie Nicks and Fleetwood Mac have been more influential to the American culture than Lemmy and Motorhead.

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5 hours ago, Snargfargle said:

Fleetwood Mac: Grammys 3
Motorhead: Grammys 1

FM album units sold: 84.55 million
MH albums sold: 15 million

Stevie Nicks net worth: 75 million
Lemmy's net worth: $646,000 when he died in 2015

FM Billboard top 100
1 NO. 1 HIT 9 TOP 10 HITS 25 SONGS

MH Billboard top 100
8 songs
 

I think that, overall, Stevie Nicks and Fleetwood Mac have been more influential to the American culture than Lemmy and Motorhead.

I do agree with you, but what I'm saying is that the HoF hasn't done much justice towards metal bands. If they want to correct that, inducting Motorhead would be a good start because Motorhead is one of the most influential metal bands ever.

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1 hour ago, 1Sherman said:

I do agree with you, but what I'm saying is that the HoF hasn't done much justice towards metal bands. If they want to correct that, inducting Motorhead would be a good start because Motorhead is one of the most influential metal bands ever.

the golden year of metal....1980,  Diamondhead "Lightning to the Nations", Motorhead "Ace of Spades", Iron Maiden's debut album, Angel Witch's debut album, AC/DC's "Back in Black", Black Sabbath "Heaven and Hell", Judas Priest "British Steel", Ozzy Osbourne "The Blizzard of Ozz", Saxon "Wheels of Steel", W.A.S.P's debut album, Motley Crue's debut album, Pat Traver's hit single of 1980 "Snortin' Whiskey, drinkin' Cocaine". Shall I continue?    PS the rock and roll hall of fame should at least put in Queensryche AND Motorhead, if they haven't yet.....

 

Edited by MotorheadEddie

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<ahem>  If they will snub King Crimson, they will snub *anybody*.  Until King Crimson gets in, I won't even consider the Hall legitimate.

 

 

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"The Cure" deserve it. Probably one of the biggest influence to the mid 80's and start of the 90's music. From Post Punk over Wave to Goth and Alternative,  "The Cure" were up with the first. 

 

 

 

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