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crazyferret23777

Prinz Eurgen ?

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My main question is since she is a tier 8 how well does she uptier? Would she provide a different gaming experience then something like the Atago?

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6 minutes ago, crazyferret23777 said:

My main question is since she is a tier 8 how well does she uptier? Would she provide a different gaming experience then something like the Atago?

I don’t have a Prinz Eugen, but from fighting them both I would summarise them as: Atago stealthy and fragile, PE less stealthy and less fragile. But they are different ships - Atago has great long ranged torps; PE is only short range yolo torps. Atago is mostly super accurate and hard hitting HE; PE is more of an AP boat against cruisers - the HE is weak even with built-in 1/4 pen. The AA isn’t spectacular on either, though iirc PE is a bit better. PE is better able to tank  damage (whereas the Hipper has better DPM but no heal).

Which nation are you more interested in grinding??

Edited by UltimateNewbie

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No tier 8 Cruiser uptiers well against tier 10s. PE is a excellent CA but even with her heal she's stat fodder to the tier 10s that she's endlessly pitted against.

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I have both, as stated above atago is very stealthy good torpedo arch but shes fragile but a very enjoyable ship. PE on the other hand is very good as well. I may stand corrected her range is about 17.8kms again very enjoyable experience. I guess it comes down to if you prefer the Jap cruiser playstyle or the German.

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Prinz Eugen has to tread very carefully in the high tier match.  She can mitigate 380mm AP with her 27mm bow, but there's a lot of 406mm+ Battleships in High Tier.

 

Like Hindenburg, the shorter the range of a fight, the better her protection holds up.

 

However, the way people like to fight with their German Cruisers, i.e. Long Range Spam, she will get obliterated by the Battleships given enough time and BB player(s) that know how to aim.

 

In a short ranged fight, High Tier German CAs tend to eat just pens or overpens unless caught full broadside.  But in a long ranged fight, those arcing Battleship shells, especially those floaty USN BB shells, crash down for lots of damage.  That's how you crush German Cruisers with a BB... While they try to spam at range.

 

Prinz is a great cruiser.  Don't get me wrong.  But she has to be extremely careful with all the BIG guns of High Tier.  The Repair Party helps quite a bit in fighting against DDs and Cruisers, or 380mm or smaller armed Battleships.  But the 406mm+ BBs or just getting caught at a bad time by such ships, that Repair Party becomes meaningless.

Edited by HazeGrayUnderway
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Prinz has come quite a long way since she was released. They added her heal sometime ago and with the KMCA 1/4 HE buff, she's a pretty good cruiser. 

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PE does well for a lot of reasons at T8/9 but as others have said no T8 CA/CL does that well against T10s.  PE has some of the best torpedo arcs allowing her to stay bow on and drop torps into oncoming ships.  She had her armor buffed so she is tougher, added a heal, added the 1/4 HE pen that germans got.

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If you want/like to hard carry, Atago is a better ship. PE lacks the DPM or alpha to hard carry a game. If you want the ship for some fun and history PE is a good ship. 

 

6 hours ago, crazyferret23777 said:

My main question is since she is a tier 8 how well does she uptier?

PE can hold it own against T10s, decent gun range and ballistics, large HP pool with a heal. You can have decent games even when botton tier.

6 hours ago, crazyferret23777 said:

Would she provide a different gaming experience then something like the Atago?

Atago and PE play in very different ways, Atago has better carry potential both when she is botton or top tier. 

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  Agree that Atago has better carry potential. The Prinz is at her best when you can be relevant with her guns but keep around all game; her DPM output is low but she is relatively tough. Thus, PE rewards when you use her toughness to give her time to effect the battle.

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I really don't like PE uptiered. PE really has 2 big issues overall:

1. Poor detection.

2. Low Firepower.

#2 is manageable when uptiered. #1 makes for a struggle because you are easily spotted and targeted. PE is pretty durable … for a CA. It is one of the best armored CAs on its tier and it can bounce 15" guns off of its bow that are relatively common on T8.  It also has a heal and I think it has a bit of a turtleback to help. Unfortunately this all falls apart against T9 and T10 where 16" and up are the rule. They can just end you and you aren't stealthy enough to hide and disengage or chose the engagement range well. Atago has a citadel larger than some BBs, turns like a bus with a busted axle, and has a monstrously slow ROF, but it can hide far better and thus control the range at which it fights, which lets it uptier better than most T8 cruisers. 

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Haven’t played Prinz much, but I would argue she’s better than Atago up tiered. I’ve found fighting at range the best way to survive as a cruiser in T10 battles. The extra range and better rate of fire really helps. 

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8 hours ago, ReddNekk said:

No tier 8 Cruiser uptiers well against tier 10s. PE is a excellent CA but even with her heal she's stat fodder to the tier 10s that she's endlessly pitted against.

If you are PE uptiered you have to play differently than you would being same tier or top tier.  You can still be a threat at T10 with your 1/4 pen HE and fantastic AP against cruisers.

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i would say PE uptiers well, the heal, 30mm upper belt, and 27mm bow make sure it stays alive better than a lot of cruisers. 50mm of pen assures that youll pen regardless of tier, range is good enough to play a support role in high tier games.

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PE heal makes it a lot more survivable than the AH, but you have to be careful with both against tier 10 anything.  The big risk is that you can soak plunging fire citadels super easy and you neither have the DPM nor the general tankiness of the Hindy to shake anything.  You have to play a supporting role and control who can shoot you while you use your ticklecannons to annoy people to death.

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41 minutes ago, FlakKnight said:

PE heal makes it a lot more survivable than the AH, but you have to be careful with both against tier 10 anything.  The big risk is that you can soak plunging fire citadels super easy and you neither have the DPM nor the general tankiness of the Hindy to shake anything.  You have to play a supporting role and control who can shoot you while you use your ticklecannons to annoy people to death.

plunging fire for BBs doesnt exist unless they overmatch the deck.

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4 minutes ago, Hanger_18 said:

plunging fire for BBs doesnt exist unless they overmatch the deck.

Which many do and stuff like DM 203s can cit at range too just by penetrating.  Kron with spotter, really lots of stuff cits the German CAs at long range.

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13 minutes ago, FlakKnight said:

Which many do and stuff like DM 203s can cit at range too just by penetrating.  Kron with spotter, really lots of stuff cits the German CAs at long range.

Exactly.  I've had no problem getting citadels on Hindenburgs out to 14km or so with my Des Moines.  The German heavies are most effective at middle to short range, so don't ask me why I still want to play mine at long range lol.

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27 minutes ago, FlakKnight said:

Which many do and stuff like DM 203s can cit at range too just by penetrating.  Kron with spotter, really lots of stuff cits the German CAs at long range.

most cruisers have a 30mm deck that excludes them from a vast majority of BBs

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2 hours ago, FlakKnight said:

Which many do and stuff like DM 203s can cit at range too just by penetrating.  Kron with spotter, really lots of stuff cits the German CAs at long range.

German CAs at range is the best scenario for a BB to delete them.  It even persists with Hindenburg :Smile_trollface:

 

If the range was short, BB shells often fly too level and will get Overpens or Pens.  Short range Citadels on them are very hard to come by, it's how a High Tier German CA can survive long enough to get close and torpedo the BB.

 

But if the range is long, the shells arc up a bit and come crashing down for Pens, Cits.  That's how I deleted German CAs with my USN BBs.  Especially the 16"/50 guns off of the Tier IX-X USN BBs.  They don't float like the Tier VIII 16"/45 shells do (a lot easier to hit at range, Montana can do tricks at range that the VIII USN BBs can only dream of), and they have a tremendous amount of AP shell weight and penetration.  That's how you whack German CAs easily.

 

German CAs are at their toughest in a short ranged fight, which is not how most people play their German CAs even if a situation arises to do so and dominate.  German CAs are almost all played at long range, and that's where you delete them.

 

It's a fascinating paradox, IMO :Smile_Default:

 

Edit:  Prinz Eugen when she gets to be top tier against Tier VI BBs?  It's hilarious.  The only Tier VI BBs that threaten PE's 27mm bow are the 406mm+ armed ones.  WV41 and Mutsu.  PE can easily face tank the many 356mm armed ones, even the 380mm / 381mm found in the tier.  It's great coming around an island with PE to ambush Tier VI BBs, bounce their shells and most of the best damage they can do, torpedo them, and then use heals to recover :Smile_teethhappy:

Edited by HazeGrayUnderway

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2 hours ago, Hanger_18 said:

most cruisers have a 30mm deck that excludes them from a vast majority of BBs

PE is 25 IIRC

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17 minutes ago, FlakKnight said:

PE is 25 IIRC

Admiral Hipper-class have 27mm decks.  Hindenburg is the one with a 30mm deck of the German Cruisers.

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