Jump to content
You need to play a total of 5 battles to post in this section.
richie_macrophage

What am I doing wrong in the Des Moines?

27 comments in this topic

Recommended Posts

Members
844 posts
3,796 battles

I got the Des Moines Class Heavy Cruiser yesterday but I can't seem to win a single damn battle in it.

Here are my stats of this ship:

DM.thumb.png.fb6ab7e0749b56b675c4a6ebe9af646b.png

Extra Stats:

1189 WTR

1778 PR

SR 56%

 

 

A 11% wr is absolutely abysmal beyond belief. Most of the time if I'm losing badly in a ship, it's probably because I'm doing something wrong with the ship and my ship is a massive influence on the flow of the battle. However, I have a pretty good hang with the Des Moines. I deal a pretty decent number of average damage, get a decent amount of experience and have a decent survival rating of 56%.

I'm not noticing what I'm doing wrong at all in my Des Moines. How I would play in the start of the match is to get to a cap zone, but wait outside of it, hiding behind an island. I would then use spotter plane or radar to detect the enemies for my team, often signalling them when I'm going to turn it on to give them the best shot. I would continue the match by strategically positioning myself behind cover and whittle down battleships, cruisers, and destroyers. I switch to AP on broadsided cruisers and battleships and deal lots of damage to them, eventually sinking them. On a winning flank I would then move up a little bit more along with my allies and give them supporting fire on priority targets.

In 2-3 of my battles I did infact screw up or dealt only <70k damage by getting in a bad position or being citadelled early and dying on. That I can understand what I did wrong (positioning, etc).

I have been noticing a trend with practically all my teams and it's overextending. I have become far more cautious of overextending now compared to a few months ago. I always make sure I'm in a favorable position or can get to one really quickly by strategically angling my ship and planning escape routes. However, I often notice lone battleships charging into cap zones and dying outright, a destroyer not putting smoke to hide himself when under fire, or an outnumbered and outgunned flank continuing to fight on despite my and our team's suggestions to retreat and to re-link with the main groups. The main bulk of our team tend to die and we cannot win without the support of those extra ships.

Two times we were close to victory. One time we had 2 more ships than the other and weren't looking bad in points, but some of our ships poked their nose out too far and got destroyed, being caught with their broadsides.

The last time we were close to victory and we had enough ships, and they were good at staying alive, but we failed to address their capture point advantage early on, having their points build up. Despite our best efforts, the enemy won by points.

I'm not sure if my 11% WR is a result of my own gameplay or if it's literally just my teams. Could anyone who had lots of experiences and good at analyzing teams help me figure out what is going on and how I can improve?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
533
[KSD]
Members
933 posts
5,798 battles
3 minutes ago, TitanicMan2 said:

I got the Des Moines Class Heavy Cruiser yesterday but I can't seem to win a single damn battle in it.

Here are my stats of this ship:

DM.thumb.png.fb6ab7e0749b56b675c4a6ebe9af646b.png

Extra Stats:

1189 WTR

1778 PR

SR 56%

 

 

A 11% wr is absolutely abysmal beyond belief. Most of the time if I'm losing badly in a ship, it's probably because I'm doing something wrong with the ship and my ship is a massive influence on the flow of the battle. However, I have a pretty good hang with the Des Moines. I deal a pretty decent number of average damage, get a decent amount of experience and have a decent survival rating of 56%.

I'm not noticing what I'm doing wrong at all in my Des Moines. How I would play in the start of the match is to get to a cap zone, but wait outside of it, hiding behind an island. I would then use spotter plane or radar to detect the enemies for my team, often signalling them when I'm going to turn it on to give them the best shot. I would continue the match by strategically positioning myself behind cover and whittle down battleships, cruisers, and destroyers. I switch to AP on broadsided cruisers and battleships and deal lots of damage to them, eventually sinking them. On a winning flank I would then move up a little bit more along with my allies and give them supporting fire on priority targets.

In 2-3 of my battles I did infact screw up or dealt only <70k damage by getting in a bad position or being citadelled early and dying on. That I can understand what I did wrong (positioning, etc).

I have been noticing a trend with practically all my teams and it's overextending. I have become far more cautious of overextending now compared to a few months ago. I always make sure I'm in a favorable position or can get to one really quickly by strategically angling my ship and planning escape routes. However, I often notice lone battleships charging into cap zones and dying outright, a destroyer not putting smoke to hide himself when under fire, or an outnumbered and outgunned flank continuing to fight on despite my and our team's suggestions to retreat and to re-link with the main groups. The main bulk of our team tend to die and we cannot win without the support of those extra ships.

Two times we were close to victory. One time we had 2 more ships than the other and weren't looking bad in points, but some of our ships poked their nose out too far and got destroyed, being caught with their broadsides.

The last time we were close to victory and we had enough ships, and they were good at staying alive, but we failed to address their capture point advantage early on, having their points build up. Despite our best efforts, the enemy won by points.

I'm not sure if my 11% WR is a result of my own gameplay or if it's literally just my teams. Could anyone who had lots of experiences and good at analyzing teams help me figure out what is going on and how I can improve?

Dont worry! sometimes its not you but the MM who is screwing you.

I myself just got to the zao, played 5 games the first night I bought it, averaged a 100k damage yet won only 1 game. now i think ive played around 10-15 in that ship and my WR is steadily climbing. been playing a lot of CB with DM, so Zao currently sits in port.

sometime even if you do everything right, the MM screws you over by giving potato teams.

also one thing you can look is the warships destoyed. make sure you finish off a target instead of just faming damage. avergae damage isnt the only statistic thats going to determine a win or a loss. kills do

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Members
844 posts
3,796 battles
1 minute ago, lungiwear said:

Dont worry! sometimes its not you but the MM who is screwing you.

I myself just got to the zao, played 5 games the first night I bought it, averaged a 100k damage yet won only 1 game. now i think ive played around 10-15 in that ship and my WR is steadily climbing. been playing a lot of CB with DM, so Zao currently sits in port.

sometime even if you do everything right, the MM screws you over by giving potato teams.

also one thing you can look is the warships destoyed. make sure you finish off a target instead of just faming damage. avergae damage isnt the only statistic thats going to determine a win or a loss. kills do

I average 1.44 ships killed a game (I don't know the standard) but I'd suppose it's pretty good?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
533
[KSD]
Members
933 posts
5,798 battles
Just now, TitanicMan2 said:

I average 1.44 ships killed a game (I don't know the standard) but I'd suppose it's pretty good?

yup. but again, WR also depends on the other 11 players. you just have to get along with MM tbh, as MM tries to keep the statistics of different ships balanced (never proven, but I have a sense it does, except stalingrad as those [edited] unicums rarely play without divisions)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
910
[KRAK]
Members
2,686 posts
17,356 battles
3 minutes ago, TitanicMan2 said:

I got the Des Moines Class Heavy Cruiser yesterday but I can't seem to win a single damn battle in it.

Here are my stats of this ship:

DM.thumb.png.fb6ab7e0749b56b675c4a6ebe9af646b.png

Extra Stats:

1189 WTR

1778 PR

SR 56%

 

 

A 11% wr is absolutely abysmal beyond belief. Most of the time if I'm losing badly in a ship, it's probably because I'm doing something wrong with the ship and my ship is a massive influence on the flow of the battle. However, I have a pretty good hang with the Des Moines. I deal a pretty decent number of average damage, get a decent amount of experience and have a decent survival rating of 56%.

I'm not noticing what I'm doing wrong at all in my Des Moines. How I would play in the start of the match is to get to a cap zone, but wait outside of it, hiding behind an island. I would then use spotter plane or radar to detect the enemies for my team, often signalling them when I'm going to turn it on to give them the best shot. I would continue the match by strategically positioning myself behind cover and whittle down battleships, cruisers, and destroyers. I switch to AP on broadsided cruisers and battleships and deal lots of damage to them, eventually sinking them. On a winning flank I would then move up a little bit more along with my allies and give them supporting fire on priority targets.

In 2-3 of my battles I did infact screw up or dealt only <70k damage by getting in a bad position or being citadelled early and dying on. That I can understand what I did wrong (positioning, etc).

I have been noticing a trend with practically all my teams and it's overextending. I have become far more cautious of overextending now compared to a few months ago. I always make sure I'm in a favorable position or can get to one really quickly by strategically angling my ship and planning escape routes. However, I often notice lone battleships charging into cap zones and dying outright, a destroyer not putting smoke to hide himself when under fire, or an outnumbered and outgunned flank continuing to fight on despite my and our team's suggestions to retreat and to re-link with the main groups. The main bulk of our team tend to die and we cannot win without the support of those extra ships.

Two times we were close to victory. One time we had 2 more ships than the other and weren't looking bad in points, but some of our ships poked their nose out too far and got destroyed, being caught with their broadsides.

The last time we were close to victory and we had enough ships, and they were good at staying alive, but we failed to address their capture point advantage early on, having their points build up. Despite our best efforts, the enemy won by points.

I'm not sure if my 11% WR is a result of my own gameplay or if it's literally just my teams. Could anyone who had lots of experiences and good at analyzing teams help me figure out what is going on and how I can improve?

 Perhaps you just need to get more familiar with the ship and angling it better or using cover better. DM is very fragile.  Try watching other DMs in matches you play in and if they did well keep in mind how they played. That is what I did and had a 54 pct win rate right off the bat and it has never been lower than 53 pct I believe.

Wins in random matches are pot luck I have had 200k damage games in my DM numerous times only to lose because of BBs trying to be snipers or rushing in too early or  DDs yoloing into caps and dying to radar or refusing to spot to farm damage.

Winning in T10 randoms highly depends on your teammates play

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Members
844 posts
3,796 battles
1 minute ago, Vaffu said:

 Perhaps you just need to get more familiar with the ship and angling it better or using cover better. DM is very fragile.  Try watching other DMs in matches you play in and if they did well keep in mind how they played. That is what I did and had a 54 pct win rate right off the bat and it has never been lower than 53 pct I believe.

Wins in random matches are pot luck I have had 200k damage games in my DM numerous times only to lose because of BBs trying to be snipers or rushing in too early or  DDs yoloing into caps and dying to radar or refusing to spot to farm damage.

Winning in T10 randoms highly depends on your teammates play

Yes, I have been indeed being more cautious in game to increase my survival. Before getting the Des Moines, I knew it was a fragile ship with a more exposed citadel than a ship like Baltimore. I always never broadside in direct view of a battleship, and I also know what ships are unable to overmatch my bow armor. When facing other cruisers head on, I often do not angle at all to give them no chance of being able to effectively land a crippling blow. I also would rather take cover or hold my fire to stay concealed rather than to shoot a random juicy battleship in the open. Only when I know I'm in a safe position do I continue firing. And if the cover doesn't work, I have an escape plan by angling my ship away to be able to retreat fast enough.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
910
[KRAK]
Members
2,686 posts
17,356 battles
1 minute ago, TitanicMan2 said:

Yes, I have been indeed being more cautious in game to increase my survival. Before getting the Des Moines, I knew it was a fragile ship with a more exposed citadel than a ship like Baltimore. I always never broadside in direct view of a battleship, and I also know what ships are unable to overmatch my bow armor. When facing other cruisers head on, I often do not angle at all to give them no chance of being able to effectively land a crippling blow. I also would rather take cover or hold my fire to stay concealed rather than to shoot a random juicy battleship in the open. Only when I know I'm in a safe position do I continue firing. And if the cover doesn't work, I have an escape plan by angling my ship away to be able to retreat fast enough.

You will improve with time. The DM is a monster and you just probably need to get used to it and once you do I am certain you will improve your stats in it. I would not use a spotter plane however as you have hydro and radar these are much more effective.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1,454
Alpha Tester
5,944 posts
2,876 battles
4 minutes ago, Vaffu said:

 I would not use a spotter plane however as you have hydro and radar these are much more effective.

And yet...

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
910
[KRAK]
Members
2,686 posts
17,356 battles
2 minutes ago, 1Sherman said:

And yet...

 

If it is on YouTube it must be true. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
414
[-TDF-]
Beta Testers
831 posts
4,083 battles
5 minutes ago, 1Sherman said:

And yet...

 

Trash meme build to troll.

 

Only been 9 games, ride it out and you should see it work itself out.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1,454
Alpha Tester
5,944 posts
2,876 battles
2 minutes ago, Vaffu said:

If it is on YouTube it must be true. 

 

1 minute ago, Stand_Alone97 said:

Trash meme build to troll.

 

Only been 9 games, ride it out and you should see it work itself out.

If it's stupid but it works, it isn't stupid. Besides, it not like every single person ever doesn't rush the middle of Two Brothers after seeing Flambass do it.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
461
[187]
Members
1,487 posts
8,388 battles
30 minutes ago, TitanicMan2 said:

I got the Des Moines Class Heavy Cruiser yesterday but I can't seem to win a single damn battle in it.

Here are my stats of this ship:

DM.thumb.png.fb6ab7e0749b56b675c4a6ebe9af646b.png

Extra Stats:

1189 WTR

1778 PR

SR 56%

 

 

A 11% wr is absolutely abysmal beyond belief. Most of the time if I'm losing badly in a ship, it's probably because I'm doing something wrong with the ship and my ship is a massive influence on the flow of the battle. However, I have a pretty good hang with the Des Moines. I deal a pretty decent number of average damage, get a decent amount of experience and have a decent survival rating of 56%.

I'm not noticing what I'm doing wrong at all in my Des Moines. How I would play in the start of the match is to get to a cap zone, but wait outside of it, hiding behind an island. I would then use spotter plane or radar to detect the enemies for my team, often signalling them when I'm going to turn it on to give them the best shot. I would continue the match by strategically positioning myself behind cover and whittle down battleships, cruisers, and destroyers. I switch to AP on broadsided cruisers and battleships and deal lots of damage to them, eventually sinking them. On a winning flank I would then move up a little bit more along with my allies and give them supporting fire on priority targets.

In 2-3 of my battles I did infact screw up or dealt only <70k damage by getting in a bad position or being citadelled early and dying on. That I can understand what I did wrong (positioning, etc).

I have been noticing a trend with practically all my teams and it's overextending. I have become far more cautious of overextending now compared to a few months ago. I always make sure I'm in a favorable position or can get to one really quickly by strategically angling my ship and planning escape routes. However, I often notice lone battleships charging into cap zones and dying outright, a destroyer not putting smoke to hide himself when under fire, or an outnumbered and outgunned flank continuing to fight on despite my and our team's suggestions to retreat and to re-link with the main groups. The main bulk of our team tend to die and we cannot win without the support of those extra ships.

Two times we were close to victory. One time we had 2 more ships than the other and weren't looking bad in points, but some of our ships poked their nose out too far and got destroyed, being caught with their broadsides.

The last time we were close to victory and we had enough ships, and they were good at staying alive, but we failed to address their capture point advantage early on, having their points build up. Despite our best efforts, the enemy won by points.

I'm not sure if my 11% WR is a result of my own gameplay or if it's literally just my teams. Could anyone who had lots of experiences and good at analyzing teams help me figure out what is going on and how I can improve?

Sounds like your are too passive to me. A Des Monies is a deadly ship with the high rate of fire. Movement is life and can and will lead to opportunity that you are never going to find sitting stationary farming damage unless that is what your goal is. If it is winning than Fortune Favors the Bold....you are going to have to get out from behind that rock and make shite happen. Your an American cruiser for fuks sake act like it. This game is twofold in that you either win by points or by killing the enemy....both require you to move....but hey I'm a 44% win rate dont listen to me.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3,993
[-K-]
Supertester
3,133 posts
7,010 battles

You can't judge yourself by 9 games.   If you hit 50 games and still have an 11% win rate, then we can talk.

The key to the DM is the ability to accurately use your guns at long range early in the game.  This allows you to pump out damage while maintaining your HP pool.  The DM is the battle changer in the mid-to-late game.  If you can keep a decent (35k+) HP pool around the 12-11 minute mark, you're in a position to really influence the game my moving in closer, getting your radar in use and that fantastic DPM you have.

Remember, USN 203mm AP is godlike.  Don't be afraid to use the AP.  And with a sub 5 second reload, you can switch to HE or AP at will.

A good way to judge the proper aggression level is to compare your win rate to your survival rate.  Generally speaking, an optimum ratio is 1:1.  If your win rate is moderately higher than your survival rate, you're probably being too aggressive.  Similarly, if your survival is higher than win rate, you're probably being too passive.  As I said before, 9 games isn't enough to judge.  Check your ratio when you hit 25 games or so.

Edited by Pope_Shizzle
  • Cool 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2,358
[RLGN]
Members
10,704 posts
19,847 battles
39 minutes ago, Snargfargle said:

Win rate is dependent on 11 players other than yourself. 

Despite what many self-important individuals love to say; ‘the only common factor in all those loses is YOU;’ what Snargfargle says is true.

You can carry until your back breaks; but if the rest of the team doesn’t at least pretend to make an effort to win, you’re usually screwed.

  • Cool 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
211
[CUTIE]
Members
378 posts
14,474 battles
50 minutes ago, TitanicMan2 said:

I got the Des Moines Class Heavy Cruiser yesterday but I can't seem to win a single damn battle in it.

Here are my stats of this ship:

DM.thumb.png.fb6ab7e0749b56b675c4a6ebe9af646b.png

Extra Stats:

1189 WTR

1778 PR

SR 56%

 

 

A 11% wr is absolutely abysmal beyond belief. Most of the time if I'm losing badly in a ship, it's probably because I'm doing something wrong with the ship and my ship is a massive influence on the flow of the battle. However, I have a pretty good hang with the Des Moines. I deal a pretty decent number of average damage, get a decent amount of experience and have a decent survival rating of 56%.

I'm not noticing what I'm doing wrong at all in my Des Moines. How I would play in the start of the match is to get to a cap zone, but wait outside of it, hiding behind an island. I would then use spotter plane or radar to detect the enemies for my team, often signalling them when I'm going to turn it on to give them the best shot. I would continue the match by strategically positioning myself behind cover and whittle down battleships, cruisers, and destroyers. I switch to AP on broadsided cruisers and battleships and deal lots of damage to them, eventually sinking them. On a winning flank I would then move up a little bit more along with my allies and give them supporting fire on priority targets.

In 2-3 of my battles I did infact screw up or dealt only <70k damage by getting in a bad position or being citadelled early and dying on. That I can understand what I did wrong (positioning, etc).

I have been noticing a trend with practically all my teams and it's overextending. I have become far more cautious of overextending now compared to a few months ago. I always make sure I'm in a favorable position or can get to one really quickly by strategically angling my ship and planning escape routes. However, I often notice lone battleships charging into cap zones and dying outright, a destroyer not putting smoke to hide himself when under fire, or an outnumbered and outgunned flank continuing to fight on despite my and our team's suggestions to retreat and to re-link with the main groups. The main bulk of our team tend to die and we cannot win without the support of those extra ships.

Two times we were close to victory. One time we had 2 more ships than the other and weren't looking bad in points, but some of our ships poked their nose out too far and got destroyed, being caught with their broadsides.

The last time we were close to victory and we had enough ships, and they were good at staying alive, but we failed to address their capture point advantage early on, having their points build up. Despite our best efforts, the enemy won by points.

I'm not sure if my 11% WR is a result of my own gameplay or if it's literally just my teams. Could anyone who had lots of experiences and good at analyzing teams help me figure out what is going on and how I can improve?

Refer to the message i sent you.  I can probably offer some assistance.  i have ~700 games in Des Moines including competitive modes.  Perhaps we can talk via Discord.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
910
[KRAK]
Members
2,686 posts
17,356 battles
18 minutes ago, 1Sherman said:

 

If it's stupid but it works, it isn't stupid. Besides, it not like every single person ever doesn't rush the middle of Two Brothers after seeing Flambass do it.

Well that is the least "teamplay" build you could possibly have. That is a personal damage build. It leaves you open to CV attacks since your AA will be garbage so no one can ride with you for AA support. You will have much less time to react to torps if you are hunting down a DD. SE is just about the dumbest skill you could take as well. A lot of the captain skills on that build are questionable as far as teamplay goes.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1,454
Alpha Tester
5,944 posts
2,876 battles
5 minutes ago, Vaffu said:

Well that is the least "teamplay" build you could possibly have. That is a personal damage build. It leaves you open to CV attacks since your AA will be garbage so no one can ride with you for AA support. You will have much less time to react to torps if you are hunting down a DD. SE is just about the dumbest skill you could take as well. A lot of the captain skills on that build are questionable as far as teamplay goes.

1: CVs are exceptionally rare, and the few that are still around avoid Des Moines instinctively because they are terrified of getting their planes melted. In this case, playing the Des Moines with this build in a match against CVs is like making a really good bluff in a poker game.

2: You have plenty of time to react to torps. That's what the Hydro is for, as well as one of the uses for the spotter planes.

3: I put Superintendent on all my captains. I'd rather have charges of a consumable around for if/when I need them than have to worry because all my Smokes, Heals, or Radars are gone.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
910
[KRAK]
Members
2,686 posts
17,356 battles
2 minutes ago, 1Sherman said:

1: CVs are exceptionally rare, and the few that are still around avoid Des Moines instinctively because they are terrified of getting their planes melted. In this case, playing the Des Moines with this build in a match against CVs is like making a really good bluff in a poker game.

2: You have plenty of time to react to torps. That's what the Hydro is for, as well as one of the uses for the spotter planes.

3: I put Superintendent on all my captains. I'd rather have charges of a consumable around for if/when I need them than have to worry because all my Smokes, Heals, or Radars are gone.

1. CVs are not all that rare lately there has been a major resurgence of CV players. Without BFT and AFT you are lunch for any CV and they know if you are running it or not by checking your stats in the beginning of the match.

2. You are replacing radar with a spotter plane which is ridiculous. Radar can dictate the outcome of the match and is the much more teamplay choice. Dead enemy DDS makes the game that much easier for your team.

3. SE is survivability expert and is just about the most useless skill you can put on any ship. 4000 hps is not saving anyone.

 

Like I said that build on the video is a personal damage build and not a teamplay build.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
6,756
[SALVO]
Members
21,032 posts
21,114 battles
1 hour ago, TitanicMan2 said:

I got the Des Moines Class Heavy Cruiser yesterday but I can't seem to win a single damn battle in it.

Here are my stats of this ship:

DM.thumb.png.fb6ab7e0749b56b675c4a6ebe9af646b.png

Extra Stats:

1189 WTR

1778 PR

SR 56%

 

Titanic, your sample size is too small for the stats to be all that relevant.  88k average damage is pretty good, as well as the 1.44 frag/game.  I think that this is probably more of a short term problem.  Just keep playing your best, maybe div up with some clan mates, and the wins will come your way.  The DM is a good tier 10 cruiser.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1,654
[SYN]
Members
5,096 posts
12,287 battles
1 hour ago, TitanicMan2 said:

A 11% wr is absolutely abysmal beyond belief.

Dude 9 battles is nothing.  Way too small a sample, first ten experiences or not.  That's not a metric by any stretch.  Someone can have a 100% win rate after ten battles in any ship, but that doesn't mean it's going to remain that way after 100 battles.

I started off with a 0% WR in the Missouri (of all boats) after 10 battles and eventually ground that up past 56%.

Come back after 50 or so and talk about how you're doing in the DM.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
237
[FORM]
Members
575 posts
5,945 battles
1 hour ago, TitanicMan2 said:

I got the Des Moines Class Heavy Cruiser yesterday but I can't seem to win a single damn battle in it.

FWIW, I'm a 53% player, and went 0-10 in my first 10 battles in my Hindenberg. After 35 battles, I'm at 51% - so... I think the only thing you're doing wrong is not being patient and waiting on the law of averages to come around for ya. You don't get to 56% on luck, and your ship stats look fine, you're just on a bad run of luck. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

×