Jump to content
You need to play a total of 5 battles to post in this section.
shokNgnaw

DD driver ... best use of smoke?

57 comments in this topic

Recommended Posts

23
[WJDC]
Members
66 posts
1,843 battles

I play about equal amounts of PvE and PvP. I mention that because I know there are different strategies/demands of DDs in the different modes.

I love the speed and maneuravibility of DDs and I am trying to figure out the best use of smoke. Comments on the forum range from "lay smoke to protect your team" to "don't blind your team," so it gets a little confusing. If I'm driving an IJN with long-term smoke, I try to conserve it to use for team cover, unless I need it to get out of focus fire. If I have UK short-term smoke, I use it to break contact, and don't use if for team cover because I wouldn't want a team mate to depend upon it, then find out (in a bad way) that it's very short term. If I'm near a team member that calls for "lay a smoke screen" I will lay long-term smoke if it's available, and if it looks like a reasonable request & not just chat spam. 

When I first started playing, I thought the correct strategy was to go to mid-cap, smoke up, and defend against invaders. Then I read a comment that, since that mid-cap smoke doesn't provide cover for support ships, it doesn't help team members provide support for the cap. So then I started to smoke up before entering the cap, to provide a wall of smoke for team members, and going into the cap without cover of smoke for myself. Then I read in the forum that doing that blinds my team mates. I didn't think the smoke-wall would blind my team if I'm in position to spot, between the smoke and the red team. Does it?

Any advice for smoking up correctly for team support would be appreciated.

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
79
[2CUTE]
Members
201 posts
2,524 battles

Using smoke is pretty situational.

Setting a smoke screen and spotting for your teammates does not blind them, the people you were talking to have no idea what they are talking about.

Generally, I would advise against stopping in a cap and smoking up to fire on enemy ships because: 

 

1. If you're in smoke, yes the enemies can't see you, but unless a teammate can spot enemies for you, you can't see the enemies either. 

2. You are very vulnerable to torpedoes from enemy destroyers if you sit in smoke. If your destroyer has no hydro, be careful of your positioning and take into account if there are enemy destroyers in your vicinity. If there are, don't stay in smoke for too long. There are way too many instances of friendly destroyers dying to torpedoes because they sat in smoke, just to be caught off guard and realize that their ship can't accelerate or turn fast enough to dodge.

 

Don't be obliged to use smoke every chance you get; If you're in a cap and no one else on the enemy team is, don't use your smoke. Smoke is more or less a big fat "ENEMY DESTROYER HERE" sign and enemy ships will not only know that someone is capping, but also the general direction of where you are as well. 

 

If you're setting a smoke screen for friendly ships, don't sit in the smoke with them. Get out and spot for your team, so your friendlies can see the enemy ships, and there for be able to fire on them. There's no use to smoke if you can't see the enemy ships either; otherwise it's just a vision disruption, and the last thing your team needs is to be blinded while enemy ships fire a wall of torpedoes at the smoke. 

 

Know your detection range when firing in smoke, it's usually 2.5km; good to know if someone is closing in on you and you need to stop firing so you can switch to torpedoes. 

  • Cool 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Members
1,928 posts
8,337 battles

If you are the only one spotting the enemy and you pop smoke other players can't see to fire. Happens all the time in co-op... greedy DD charges in, smokes up then wonders why he gets obliterated by a charging bot that suddenly reappears right on top of him.

Remember, the bots always know where you are, so smoke isn't going to stop them or make them change course. 

When I play a DD in co-op the only time I use smoke is to cover my retreat after a torp run. 

  • Cool 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
685
[CAG-1]
Members
1,273 posts

Smoke is more of a personal defense mechanism. Destroyers are quite vulnerable to getting deleted in 10 seconds or less. Especially in a radar heavy arena.

Many CA/BB mains will bark orders at you to lay out smoke screens for them upon command. That's a nice idea and all, helping your team. The problem is that you only get 2 to 6 smoke charges depending on what DD you have. The cool down time can be lengthy, and frivolously wasting smoke to aid others can be detrimental to you if you get caught in the wrong place, wrong time. Keep your smoke for when you need it to save your skin, and when it's "mutually beneficial' for your team. Don't just smoke up others simply because they demand it.

The team that wins is usually the team with the best DD's that are alive for the end game. If you use smoke at the wrong time and get yourself killed because it's on cool-down... it could cost you the game.

Other destroyers like the Haida, or the RN DD lines have smoke systems that are totally unsuitable for aiding others anyways...

  • Cool 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
315
[--V--]
Members
863 posts
11,693 battles

Smoke can also be bait.   If in a highly stealthy Kamakazi for example, I may lay smoke in the SW corning of a cap, then move to SE corner.   Many many times my enemy has wasted torps plunging them into nothing. 

  • Cool 4

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
168
[-RNG-]
Beta Testers
448 posts
4,739 battles

Generally I use it to cover a disengagement or if an ally requests it. In some lines it’s also good for sitting in while spamming, but only for the Harg and USN lines, for others it’s not worth being radared, imo.

 

I’ll also actually use it to engage, and surprise people around a corner with point blank torps if they aren’t paying attention. Sometimes using the very smoke I just disengaged with. I do this in Russian destroyers moreso than IJN or USN DDs. 

  • Cool 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
23
[WJDC]
Members
66 posts
1,843 battles

Good information. I learned pretty early not to smoke up and set there. :Smile_hiding::fish_viking:Good also to know for sure that, as long as I'm not blinded by setting in smoke, I can spot and my team can set in the smoke and not be blind. Makes sense (duh). I get it about the bots always knowing where the DDs are. I played a few battles being dumbfounded about how the bots would target me relentlessly when there were other juicy, easier-to-hit targets around, then I read on the forum about how the bots are DD stalkers, know your ammo and when torps are launched.

 

4 minutes ago, SeaborneSumo said:

Smoke can also be bait.   If in a highly stealthy Kamakazi for example, I may lay smoke in the SW corning of a cap, then move to SE corner.   Many many times my enemy has wasted torps plunging them into nothing. 

I do this sometimes as well, to move out and set up a torp ambush for someone focusing on the smoke. Works better in random since the bots always seem to know where I am.

 

2 minutes ago, Tom_Greg said:

To hide the fact that I accidently ran into an island.

That too. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1,176
Members
2,944 posts
3,742 battles

Don't bother laying it to conceal team mates unless you're planning on not sitting in it, or you know that someone else has LOS on the enemy. The problem isn't so much blinding your team as blinding yourself. 

Don't dump it on top of friendly BBs unless they've gone dark and are trying to evade. 

RN-style smoke is pretty much just to get yourself out of trouble. You can stealth fire from it, and its short duration means you're much less at risk of an incoming wall of torps, but you have to be very conscious of how long you've got left. 

As someone else mentioned, smoke can also be brilliant bait for a trap. Smoke one corner of a Cap, then go hide in another corner. When you see a wall of torps headed for your smoke, go hunt down the fool who just wasted all his torps on thin air.

  • Cool 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2,139
[-K-]
Members
6,466 posts
10,762 battles
10 minutes ago, SeaborneSumo said:

Smoke can also be bait.   If in a highly stealthy Kamakazi for example, I may lay smoke in the SW corning of a cap, then move to SE corner.   Many many times my enemy has wasted torps plunging them into nothing. 

Hmmmm......never thought much of smoke as bait.  I would never do it with valuable smokes like USN or Pan-Asian, but for something like a British DD with short, but many smokes available, this could be an interesting tactic in a DD heavy match.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Beta Testers
587 posts
1,640 battles

I tend to use mine primarily as a defense mechanism.  Unlike a lot of substandard (IMO) DD drivers, I prefer to push a cap hard at the beginning of domination matches so my team can get early visuals as well as start earning points.  Occasionally this will necessitate the use of smoke to cover a hasty retreat.  There's nothing worse IMO than a timid DD driver as they will generally be so far away from the enemy as to not serve any useful purpose at all.  The flip side of that coin is that if you're going to play aggressively, you're going to need to retreat at times and I don't want that smoke on cooldown because I wanted to fire a couple potshots at an enemy BB at max range.

  • Cool 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1,539
[WOLFG]
Members
5,320 posts
3,131 battles
29 minutes ago, Gen_Saris said:

If you are the only one spotting the enemy and you pop smoke other players can't see to fire. Happens all the time in co-op... greedy DD charges in, smokes up then wonders why he gets obliterated by a charging bot that suddenly reappears right on top of him.

Remember, the bots always know where you are, so smoke isn't going to stop them or make them change course. 

When I play a DD in co-op the only time I use smoke is to cover my retreat after a torp run. 

Even dropping it for allies and spotting doesn't usually work (even if you are unsighted) for the same reasons. 

A bot DD will use 99% of his health to get torpedoes off on you. 

Most humans won't.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Members
1,928 posts
8,337 battles
Just now, DrHolmes52 said:

A bot DD will use 99% of his health to get torpedoes off on you. 

Most humans won't.

And they always somehow manage to get that impossible torp shot off at the last second. I swear I've seen them fire even with torp tubes knocked out. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1,539
[WOLFG]
Members
5,320 posts
3,131 battles
Just now, Gen_Saris said:

And they always somehow manage to get that impossible torp shot off at the last second. I swear I've seen them fire even with torp tubes knocked out. 

You have to knock all of them off. Twice.  Because they never seem to use the DC until you hit them.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2,900
[-K-]
[-K-]
Members
4,424 posts
14,757 battles

Look at your minimap to see if there are straight lines from green ships to red ships. If yes, you can smoke as needed. If no, you can still smoke, but people will get mad, so think harder about it. Finally, if you're going to get out of your own smoke and continue to spot, then it's fine to smoke, you will still serve as a point of vision for your team, but keep in mind that you may be blocking sight on some ships that you personally can't see due to island angles.

I used to smoke allies all the time, but I stopped doing it in most cases because without comms or verifying that it's a good player, they don't know what to do with it anyway and it's a waste.

  • Cool 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1,796
[WORX]
Members
4,229 posts
15,313 battles

Smoking ships directly,

  • DDs in tandem Like in an escort scenario.
  • Smoking Cruises so that they can shoot and not be shot at (especially your ATLs).
  • DDs as a defensive measure to "NINJA VANISH"

Smoking BBs directly I dont recommend since once they shoot their guns, You re spotted regardless.

Now you can i smoke a BB indirectly because then, the red team can;t get the bearing to the BB right away to shoot at it (a BB on the Move is better then one that is a sitting duck in smoke).

For this your team will love you for using your smoke correctly.

Edited by Navalpride33
  • Cool 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Members
1,928 posts
8,337 battles
3 minutes ago, DrHolmes52 said:

You have to knock all of them off. Twice.  Because they never seem to use the DC until you hit them.

I've had them on fire, tubes out, engines out, dead in the water and here come the torps anyways.

We all know bots cheat, I'd like to see a listing of what skills they have and how they use them. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
336
[-BRS-]
Members
1,586 posts
16,453 battles

Its true most players do not realize why you dropped smoke for them.

It becomes a huge waste when you lay smoke for a cruiser and they avoid it and just keep moving on through.

As a big DesMoines and Worcester player I sometimes lay smoke for those ships in places or situations in which I know they will be able to do tons of damage.

But sadly most turn away and duck behind some island where they cant do diddly.

So like you said I have gotten to the point in which I wait for them to cry for smoke after they get focused or in some cases when i get annoyed just ignore their cries for help lol and think to myself sorry buddy you had your chance now deal with you bad decision.

Players got to learn one way or another i guess.

 

  • Cool 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
23
[WJDC]
Members
66 posts
1,843 battles
8 minutes ago, _HatTrick_ said:

I tend to use mine primarily as a defense mechanism.  Unlike a lot of substandard (IMO) DD drivers, I prefer to push a cap hard at the beginning of domination matches so my team can get early visuals as well as start earning points.  Occasionally this will necessitate the use of smoke to cover a hasty retreat.  There's nothing worse IMO than a timid DD driver as they will generally be so far away from the enemy as to not serve any useful purpose at all.  The flip side of that coin is that if you're going to play aggressively, you're going to need to retreat at times and I don't want that smoke on cooldown because I wanted to fire a couple potshots at an enemy BB at max range.

I'm still trying to find the balance between agression and survival. I often use engine boost to get as far ahead as possible to spot but I've been a little more reserved about rushing into the cap unless there's some island cover that will help me out. Still, my full-battle survival rate leaves something to be desired. I know DDs are important in mid to end game for caps but I like to spot early to help my team get kills. Still haven't got the perfect balance but I'm getting a little better.

I do like the RN short-term smokes because there are more of them (esp with superintendent skills) and I can have more opportunities to kite. But a lot of times I still get pounded on the back side of the smoke when kiting. I guess that's probably because there's another red that doesn't have line-of-site blocked by the smoke or due to spotter planes.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3,885
Members
23,173 posts
5,841 battles
55 minutes ago, shokNgnaw said:

Then I read in the forum that doing that blinds my team mates. I didn't think the smoke-wall would blind my team if I'm in position to spot, between the smoke and the red team. Does it?

No, the complaints stem from DDs that aren't aware of what they're spotting vs. what their teammates can also spot.

Sometimes, the DD wants to hide in the smoke and shoot, not realising that they were the only one providing spotting. Other times, the DD could be laying smoke with good intentions, but not paying attention as well as they could, and end up behind an island when done, so they were going to blind their teammates anyway, but meant to provide spotting. Usually when the latter happens, it's just a spotting delay, the DD will rectify the error and get back into spotting position.

Just make sure it's you spotting the potential targets before you cut off your team's vision.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3,885
Members
23,173 posts
5,841 battles
14 minutes ago, Edgecase said:

I used to smoke allies all the time, but I stopped doing it in most cases because without comms or verifying that it's a good player, they don't know what to do with it anyway and it's a waste.

Exactly. Nothing like smoking a crippled BB, who then continues firing.....

  • Cool 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
23
[WJDC]
Members
66 posts
1,843 battles
12 minutes ago, Navalpride33 said:

Smoking ships directly,

  • DDs in tandem Like in an escort scenario.
  • Smoking Cruises so that they can shoot and not be shot at (especially your ATLs).
  • DDs as a defensive measure to "NINJA VANISH"

Smoking BBs directly I dont recommend since once they shoot their guns, You re spotted regardless.

Now you can i smoke a BB indirectly because then, the red team can;t get the bearing to the BB right away to shoot at it (a BB on the Move is better then one that is a sitting duck in smoke).

For this your team will love you for using your smoke correctly.

Are you saying that, if I smoke a BB and he uses his guns then I get spotted as well, even if I'm outside my detection range?

I usually go for the indirect smoke (not exactly on the BBs position if I understand you correctly), and string it out as long as possible.

Not sure what you mean by DDs in tandem. If you could elaborate ...?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
23
[WJDC]
Members
66 posts
1,843 battles
10 minutes ago, GUNSTAR_THE_LEGEND said:

Its true most players do not realize why you dropped smoke for them.

It becomes a huge waste when you lay smoke for a cruiser and they avoid it and just keep moving on through.

As a big DesMoines and Worcester player I sometimes lay smoke for those ships in places or situations in which I know they will be able to do tons of damage.

But sadly most turn away and duck behind some island where they cant do diddly.

So like you said I have gotten to the point in which I wait for them to cry for smoke after they get focused or in some cases when i get annoyed just ignore their cries for help lol and think to myself sorry buddy you had your chance now deal with you bad decision.

Players got to learn one way or another i guess.

 

True that.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Beta Testers
587 posts
1,640 battles
1 minute ago, shokNgnaw said:

I'm still trying to find the balance between agression and survival. I often use engine boost to get as far ahead as possible to spot but I've been a little more reserved about rushing into the cap unless there's some island cover that will help me out. Still, my full-battle survival rate leaves something to be desired. I know DDs are important in mid to end game for caps but I like to spot early to help my team get kills. Still haven't got the perfect balance but I'm getting a little better.

I do like the RN short-term smokes because there are more of them (esp with superintendent skills) and I can have more opportunities to kite. But a lot of times I still get pounded on the back side of the smoke when kiting. I guess that's probably because there's another red that doesn't have line-of-site blocked by the smoke or due to spotter planes.

A couple of tips I'll give you but keep in mind, I'm no DD expert myself yet.  Don't use your engine boost running to a cap at the beginning of the game.  First off, as a RN DD, you're already going to beat most others there because of your greatly improved acceleration.  Secondly, even if you arrive a few seconds earlier, unless the DDs on the other team are garbage or there aren't enough of them to go to each cap, they are still going to reach it and contest it before you can fully capture the point.  It's not worth burning an engine boost early for that.

Now as far as smoking to cover a retreat, you may already know this but I'm going to say it anyway.  If you're retreating from superior numbers, DO NOT FIRE YOUR GUNS.  Whenever you fire your guns, you remain spotted for 20 seconds I believe and that timer is reset each time you fire them.  If you're getting out of Dodge, just run and don't shoot back.  Now if you're just trying to break a single DD's target lock on you, you can go ahead and start shooting once you feel you've reached a more advantageous position if you want to but if it's a bunch of cruisers you're running from, shooting is the worst thing you can do.  Also, if you're retreating, try to get where you're going directly away from the enemy if you can do it without screwing yourself.  If you pop smoke while moving laterally to the enemy, you will come back into view momentarily with each circle of smoke you lay down if you're running at 3/4 or full throttle.  That's all some people will need to get a good gun solution on you.  What I try to do when retreating is slow down at first so my smoke is out in front of me a bit and then turn hard away from the enemies.  Once you're running directly away from them and laying smoke, you will disappear (provided you don't fire your guns.)

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Beta Testers
587 posts
1,640 battles
3 minutes ago, shokNgnaw said:

Are you saying that, if I smoke a BB and he uses his guns then I get spotted as well, even if I'm outside my detection range?

I usually go for the indirect smoke (not exactly on the BBs position if I understand you correctly), and string it out as long as possible.

Not sure what you mean by DDs in tandem. If you could elaborate ...?

Every ship has a detectability range when firing from smoke.  BBs get basically no benefit from smoke if they fire their guns so if they won't stop firing, you just wasted a smoke screen.  It won't reveal you directly but it will indirectly because obviously the BB didn't lay down smoke themselves so the enemy will be aware of your presence but they won't be able to see you.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

×