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General_Strom

ok I need help with He or AP use.

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OK I keep getting yelled at by players that I am using the wrong ammo in my BB Iowa.   I use HE when the BB heading towards me is point on and AP when I can get a side shot.  Is that sound tactics?   I generally do the same when attracting cruisers and of course HE always against DDs.  

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3 minutes ago, General_Strom said:

OK I keep getting yelled at by players that I am using the wrong ammo in my BB Iowa.   I use HE when the BB heading towards me is point on and AP when I can get a side shot.  Is that sound tactics?   I generally do the same when attracting cruisers and of course HE always against DDs.  

Yep that generally is the best option. There are exceptions. If you can overmatch the armor then no need to switch to HE

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3 minutes ago, General_Strom said:

OK I keep getting yelled at by players that I am using the wrong ammo in my BB Iowa.   I use HE when the BB heading towards me is point on and AP when I can get a side shot.  Is that sound tactics?   I generally do the same when attracting cruisers and of course HE always against DDs.  

I would say that you are correct with one slight exception. You can over match a lot of cruisers through the nose so AP can get you some citadel hits on cruisers by punching them in the nose. 

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People yell when they see a BB other than RN fire HE, conversly they yell at RN BBs for firing anything but HE.

Shoot HE at bow tanking BBs, and AP otherwise generally. With RN BBs AP can be useful on close range broadside targets.

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1 minute ago, UssIowaSailor said:

I would say that you are correct with one slight exception. You can over match a lot of cruisers through the nose so AP can get you some citadel hits on cruisers by punching them in the nose. 

ok so your saying stick to ap on Cruisers pointing at me?

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5 minutes ago, General_Strom said:

ok so your saying stick to ap on Cruisers pointing at me?

It depends on the cruiser, some can bounce your shells, some can not. Iowa - Caliber : 406 - Over maches up to 28.3mm so ant cruiser with more than 28mm bow armor you can not over match.

Edited by UssIowaSailor

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Most tier 7 Battleship bows get overmatched by 16 inch shells(iowa shells) So in the rare time you are top tier, hit those Colorados, Natagos and other lesserlings with those punishing ap rounds and aim for the nose, not the center of the ship.

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Just now, General_Strom said:

ok so your saying stick to ap on Cruisers pointing at me?

Yes.

I would also get in the habit of shooting whatever you have loaded at your target and switching ammo on the reload.  You may not get a second chance at the shot, and some damage done right now is better than the potential for more damage later - that may never show up.  At least, that's how I see it.

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IMO I would be using AP 95%+ of the time from your Iowa. US BB AP is awesome. If a BB goes bow on raise the aim so you are shooting at their guns and superstructure. You can easily get 10-15K salvos doing this and even damage or destroy their guns. On Cruisers do the same. IF they can bounce your shells with the hull then raise the aim otherwise pen them right through the nose. Shoot DD with HE if you want but I just stay with AP. HE tends to do more module breaking with no damage so you do better with assured 10% overpen damage from AP.

YMMV but I find using HE from any BB besides a BRN BB to be a waste (especially US BB's with such excellent AP) barring certain circumstance like facing multiple ships so you want to get them all burning 1st and then swap to AP to chunk them down or when facing a higher tier BB you can do much to bow on. Even low tier BB's can damage/destroy guns and do massive super structure damage to higher tier BB's though.

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23 minutes ago, General_Strom said:

OK I keep getting yelled at by players that I am using the wrong ammo in my BB Iowa.   I use HE when the BB heading towards me is point on and AP when I can get a side shot.  Is that sound tactics?   I generally do the same when attracting cruisers and of course HE always against DDs.  

In a BB vs BB setting shell switching is viable.  People are way too entrenched in the Battleship needs to be "AP or not at all" mindset.  Unless you're a Yamato-class with Overmatch / LOLPENS superiority against other ships and you can AP them 99% of the time, "regular" BB AP into well angled, bow on BB targets isn't high impact to the target.

 

The very reason why BBs go bow on / angle is to mitigate the effects of your BB AP shells against them.

 

However, you feed them a face full of BB sized HE shells into the face and start setting some fires, then they start taking notice.  Case in point.  I'm in a gun duel with my Montana against an angled / bow on Yamato.  IJN 460mm already puts me at a disadvantage and if I insist on firing AP into a Yamato ready to receive it, I'm wasting my time.  However, I feed that Yamato 12 of my HE shells into the face, then all the sudden Yamato feels some pressure because it can no longer bow tank / angle and ignore the majority of my damage.

 

There was another case where my Montana was being pursued by an iowa and Izumo.  Bad news.  Since they were in pursuit mode, they were bow on to me.  So I switched to HE and kept on feeding Iowa 12 HE shells until she remembered she had to be somewhere else.  I then did the same to Izumo who took longer to give up the chase.  But because she was a lot closer, and a gut feeling that she would do a 180, I prepared my AP.  Sure enough, she did a 180 degree turn and I promptly punished her.

 

Switch your shells.

 

Against Cruisers, I tend to keep AP loaded most of the time.  Majority of the time with 406mm+ sized BB guns, you got Overmatch superiority.  I am always looking for the Killer AP Salvo.  However, in some cases it may be worth switching to HE against some Cruisers.

+ You're a 380mm armed BB dealing with a High Tier USN / German CA that has a 27mm bow, and this is a fight you need to fight.  Otherwise look for something else to AP.

+ A close ranged, High Tier German CA trying to torpedo rush you.  Unless they're almost dead, firing AP into them will result in Pens at best, lots of Overpens at worst.  In short, you will not kill them in time before they drop torps on you.  Fire HE into them.  Get HE Penetration damage and hopefully you disable / destroy torpedo tubes.

+ A rare Cruiser like Moskva that has a 50mm deck.  At range your shells will often land on their deck and their angles at impact, will bounce BB AP.  Unless you get extremely lucky and land on the 25mm bow (specifically the bow, not the main deck or the lower portion of the bow, which are both 50mm) for Penetrations, you will get bounced a lot.  However, if you ARE close enough to make accurate, called shots, then hit that bow for Pens.

+ There are some very thin armored Cruisers that can be HE Citadeled.  Emerald, Neptune, Minotaur being examples.  Typically I would have AP to demolish them, but if for some reason HE is already loaded, fling them at RN CLs for HE Citadels.  Keep in mind, BB AP into RN CLs is far more devastating, but if HE is what you had loaded, then f--k it, shoot them.

 

There may be more scenarios, but those come to mind.  But in general, AP is what I prefer to punish Cruisers for.  That is where you get your Big Flashy AP numbers, the stuff BB players live for.

 

For DDs, yes, HE is the preferred shell but for initial salvos against them, shoot whatever you have loaded already.  A good AP salvo into them still takes nice HP off.  You're just not insta-gibbing them like in the past.

 

Overmatch?  Check the WoWS Wiki page here.  Then scroll to the bottom for a quickie chart with example armor thicknesses and the AP needed to Overmatch.  In addition, check this recent thread on where to aim for some bow / angled targets.

 

Edited by HazeGrayUnderway
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Just now, HazeGrayUnderway said:

In a BB vs BB setting shell switching is viable.  People are way too entrenched in the Battleship needs to be "AP or not at all" mindset.  Unless you're a Yamato-class with Overmatch / LOLPENS superiority against other ships and you can AP them 99% of the time, "regular" BB AP into well angled, bow on BB targets isn't high impact to the target.

 

The very reason why BBs go bow on / angle is to mitigate the effects of your BB AP shells against them.

 

However, you feed them a face full of BB sized HE shells into the face and start setting some fires, then they start taking notice.  Case in point.  I'm in a gun duel with my Montana against an angled / bow on Yamato.  IJN 460mm already puts me at a disadvantage and if I insist on firing AP into a Yamato ready to receive it, I'm wasting my time.  However, I feed that Yamato 12 of my HE shells into the face, then all the sudden Yamato feels some pressure because it can no longer bow tank / angle and ignore the majority of my damage.

 

There was another case where my Montana was being pursued by an iowa and Izumo.  Bad news.  Since they were in pursuit mode, they were bow on to me.  So I switched to HE and kept on feeding Iowa 12 HE shells until she remembered she had to be somewhere else.  I then did the same to Izumo who took longer to give up the chase.  But because she was a lot closer, and a gut feeling that she would do a 180, I prepared my AP.  Sure enough, she did a 180 degree turn and I promptly punished her.

 

Switch your shells.

 

Against Cruisers, I tend to keep AP loaded most of the time.  Majority of the time with 406mm+ sized BB guns, you got Overmatch superiority.  I am always looking for the Killer AP Salvo.  However, in some cases it may be worth switching to HE against some Cruisers.

+ You're a 380mm armed BB dealing with a High Tier USN / German CA that has a 27mm bow, and this is a fight you need to fight.  Otherwise look for something else to AP.

+ A close ranged, High Tier German CA trying to torpedo rush you.  Unless they're almost dead, firing AP into them will result in Pens at best, lots of Overpens at worst.  In short, you will not kill them in time before they drop torps on you.  Fire HE into them.  Get HE Penetration damage and hopefully you disable / destroy torpedo tubes.

+ A rare Cruiser like Moskva that has a 50mm deck.  At range your shells will often land on their deck and their angles at impact, will bounce BB AP.  Unless you get extremely lucky and land on the 25mm bow (specifically the bow, not the main deck or the lower portion of the bow, which are both 50mm) for Penetrations, you will get bounced a lot.  However, if you ARE close enough to make accurate, called shots, then hit that bow for Pens.

+ There are some very thin armored Cruisers that can be HE Citadeled.  Emerald, Neptune, Minotaur being examples.  Typically I would have AP to demolish them, but if for some reason HE is already loaded, fling them at RN CLs for HE Citadels.  Keep in mind, BB AP into RN CLs is far more devastating, but if HE is what you had loaded, then f--k it, shoot them.

 

There may be more scenarios, but those come to mind.  But in general, AP is what I prefer to punish Cruisers for.  That is where you get your Big Flashy AP numbers, the stuff BB players live for.

 

For DDs, yes, HE is the preferred shell but for initial salvos against them, shoot whatever you have loaded already.  A good AP salvo into them still takes nice HP off.  You're just not insta-gibbing them like in the past.

The issue is people keep shooting the bow/hull instead of raising the aim up. People will take more notice of their guns being incapacitated or destroyed or big damage to the superstructure too. Fire damage can be healed more readily. Can't repair a destroyed gun and you can only repair a portion of AP pen damage.

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14 minutes ago, AdmiralThunder said:

The issue is people keep shooting the bow/hull instead of raising the aim up. People will take more notice of their guns being incapacitated or destroyed or big damage to the superstructure too. Fire damage can be healed more readily. Can't repair a destroyed gun and you can only repair a portion of AP pen damage.

Depends on the range and the target.

If we're talking a brawl or close to brawling ranges where you feel you can make called shots, yes, go for BB turrets and disable them.  French BBs with their very wide 4-gun turrets have a lot of turret faces to hit, and therefor easy to knockout.  You can pick off Richelieu, Alsace, JB's turrets easily if they want to brawl.  419-Conqueror turrets are also very frail.

 

I remember long ago my Richelieu getting into a bow on vs bow on brawl with a Missouri.  Missouri destroyed 1 of my 2 turrets and put me at a serious damage output disadvantage.  If it weren't for my 2-3 teammates behind me, I'd have lost that fight.  If Missouri had more time, I have no doubt he'd destroy my last turret.

 

But if there's enough range where such shots are too RNG to achieve, then the options don't look that good.  You can go for superstructure AP shots but you'll get lots of Overpens also.

 

Penetration Damage repairs?  In shell damage, Repair Party only cares if it was a Citadel hit or not.  It doesn't distinguish between HE or AP damage.  Now, one may say that AP Pens do more damage than HE Pens, and Repair Party has to do more work against AP Pens.  However, against well angled, bow targets, how many AP Pens are you getting against another BB?  Unless you got 460mm LOLPENs, not much.  However, a bunch of BB HE to the face will get you more consistent damage.  And keep setting the fires.  It puts stress on the DCP consumable.

 

Edited by HazeGrayUnderway

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I've not played Iowa since alpha/beta.  But as a rule with BBs I use only AP unless firing at a properly angled enemy battleship.   Probably should be using against DDs more.. but  rarely makes sense to me as shooting at them in most case is a bit of a crap shoot and reload is so long, inevitably a better opportunity at something I can delete/citadel pops up or I lose vision on said DD leaving me back to having wrong shell loaded most of the time.    

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The Cliff Notes version is to switch when what you are using is not working.

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Yep, lots of good advice here.  HE can benefit for bow on shots on BBs.  Long range shots can quite often benefit from AP instead of HE, though.  You get plunging fire which can penetrate from the top.  Mid range bow on often hits the side or top on a sharp angle and the bounce angle kicks in, or the extra thickness is added to the calculation for the penetration.

I actually don't switch shell type for DDs.  I just shoot what I have and then switch.  If I know I won't be seeing a DD pop up in the next 30 sec, then I might do a switch.  A shot does 33% of its max damage if it isn't a citadel hit.  That means an AP overpen will do 1350 damage on a DD, while an HE pen will do 1881.  You are only losing 531 points of damage per shell hit by shooting AP.  Yeah, the extra damage is nice, but it most likely won't be the reason you don't kill the DD.  You are more apt to miss out on a shot while switching, than you will be missing the extra damage by using AP instead of HE.  If you happen to get a shot to the front or rear of a DD facing or running away from you, you might score a penetration, and then the AP will deal 4455 damage per shell.  You just won't hit with many due to dispersion around a small target.

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Great post and ty.  Im a DD driver and suck balls when I even feel froggy and jump into a BB for some change of pace.  Learned a good bit from this.

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