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Totenliste

Italian Battleship Lineup

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Really need some more BB action. So killing time made a possible lineup based on comparisons:
 
Battleships
T II:    Regina Margherita               https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Regina_Margherita-class_battleship (possible but not necessary like Mikasa think premium)
T III:   Regina Elena                         https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Regina_Elena-class_battleship (the 1902 proposed upgraded version all one caliber by Cuniberti)
T IV:   Dante Alighieri                      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Italian_battleship_Dante_Alighieri
T V:    Andrea Doria/Caio Duilio    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Andrea_Doria-class_battleship   
           (alt: Conte Di Cavour)          https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conte_di_Cavour-class_battleship [Giulio Cesare]
T VI:   Francesco Caracciolo          https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Francesco_Caracciolo-class_battleship      
T VII:  BB 1935                                 was in response to the French BB Dunkerque
T VIII: Littorio                                   https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Littorio-class_battleship [Roma]
T IX:   Impero                                   (Impero and Piave/BB1936 from below links) an upgraded Littorio (led to the design of Sovetsky Soyuz T XI Russian BB) 
T X:    Piave/ BB1936                      also called UP 41 (Think Littorio but with 406mm guns)
 
 
*:   Tier V (though possible alt) and VIII were already decided.
*Always open to suggestions if anyone has a better idea for a ship or a tier placement.
Special Thanks go to the 2 guys links above.
Edited by Totenliste
Italian Cruiser Drop revisit corrections
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We really don't need another Mikasa clone at T2. That ship is utter junk, good for a couple of lol games against yolo bots and that's it.

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I disagree with WG when they put Guilio Ceasare as a T5 I think in real life it'd be a T6 and Andrea Doria a T7.

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Regina Elena is a pre-dreadnought, there's no way she's fit for tier III. That more likely belongs to the first dreadnought design, Cuniberti's 'Colossus'.

I agree with the placement of Dante AlighieriConte di Cavour, and Caio Duilio.

The class is known as the Caio Duilio-class because that is what the Italian Navy called it, and is known as such in several languages, but in English is commonly referenced as the Andrea Doria-class as Andrea Doria was launched first. That being said, Caio Duilio was laid down first, and also completed first. Make no mistake, she is the class leader.

Caracciolo isn't a great fit for tier VII, she's essentially a faster QE/Bayern, but the guns are low velocity and different from other Italian guns - she's better off being a premium or starting another line at tier VI, with one of the inter-war designs as a tier VII for the main line.

Littorio I agree with.

Tier IX could either be Impero (Littorio with better stats) or the development of the 16" designs for Littorio - 'BB1936'. These were also adapted into project UP.41 by Ansaldo for the Soviet Union.

Tier X, if Impero is tier IX, could be BB1936, but if not WG would probably have to fake a ship, as there's nothing else that really fits - the other designs are either too old or too strong for tier X.

 

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I like Roma, but Caesar is going to has set high expectations for this BB Line.  Anything less than Caesar is going to look bad.

 

Curious to see if the 2 qualities Caesar and Roma share, speed and concealment, would be trademarks of this line.  I don't know much about Italian BBs.

Edited by HazeGrayUnderway

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It is really up to WG. Let’s say they just go down the crazy train route. There where a lot of projects that called to recycle the 305mm rifles and 381/40s. As well we have an outlier for the 354/55. 

Since Cesare seems pulled and considered OP  let’s follow the crazy options. At tier V might be the Leonardo da Vinci modernization plan with 10x 305mm rifles and TDS bulge with ~24 knot speed?

Caio Duilio seems destined for tier VI however I doubt it will find the success of Cesare. Bow in play will not have the armored internal bow. Continuing down the path not traveled. Caracciolo in the 1919 redesign might have gameplay friendly armor just enough to keep the 381/40 for one of the battlecruiser projects. A fast traditional 3 x 3 layout.  Or one of the pre-Caracciolo proposals with 12 381/40 rifles and 28 knot speed.  I’ve seen Phoenix reference a 381/45 but I’m not familiar with it. That gives you two kinds of fast battleships with highly accurate yet painfully rainbow arc rifles at VI/VII. Which laugh at HE spam and eat full pens all day if WG was to magic a similar armor configuration on an imagined tier VII project.

then Littorio at tier VIII. Littorio with less gimped stats at IX  called Impero and UP.41at X. Since it seems WG has stated they don’t like any of the other known projects from the archives. UP.41 would need some gimmick if only given the 406/50. WoT clip load? :cap_cool:

 

That gives tier IV/V with 305mm rifles with decent velocity and meh caliber. Tier VI/VII with meh guns that reward advanced gunnery skills and positioning. Tier VIII-X reward positioning and constant sacrifices to RNGesus.

 

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On 12/9/2018 at 9:40 PM, Phoenix_jz said:

Regina Elena is a pre-dreadnought, there's no way she's fit for tier III. That more likely belongs to the first dreadnought design, Cuniberti's 'Colossus'.

I agree with the placement of Dante AlighieriConte di Cavour, and Caio Duilio.

The class is known as the Caio Duilio-class because that is what the Italian Navy called it, and is known as such in several languages, but in English is commonly referenced as the Andrea Doria-class as Andrea Doria was launched first. That being said, Caio Duilio was laid down first, and also completed first. Make no mistake, she is the class leader.

Caracciolo isn't a great fit for tier VII, she's essentially a faster QE/Bayern, but the guns are low velocity and different from other Italian guns - she's better off being a premium or starting another line at tier VI, with one of the inter-war designs as a tier VII for the main line.

Littorio I agree with.

Tier IX could either be Impero (Littorio with better stats) or the development of the 16" designs for Littorio - 'BB1936'. These were also adapted into project UP.41 by Ansaldo for the Soviet Union.

Tier X, if Impero is tier IX, could be BB1936, but if not WG would probably have to fake a ship, as there's nothing else that really fits - the other designs are either too old or too strong for tier X.

 

I agree but WG can always fudge the numbers a bit but I really liked your list as well hence why I now have a link to it and another one with my list. As far as the Elena goes Cuniberti's Idea basically became the Dante Alighieri. The Colossus was just the idea of using one caliber of gun on a ship not an actual design per say. https://www.gingkoedizioni.it/vittorio-emanuele-cuniberti-the-little-known-italian-engineer-who-changed-naval-warfare/  Though I agree the Elena is a little weak sauce there but there again WG can adjust what's available to fit their needs.

Edited by Totenliste

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On ‎12‎/‎7‎/‎2018 at 1:57 AM, Totenliste said:
Really need some more BB action. So killing time made a possible lineup based on comparisons:
 
Battleships
T II:   Regina Margherita               https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Regina_Margherita-class_battleship
T III:  Regina Elena                         https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Regina_Elena-class_battleship
T IV:  Dante Alighieri                      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Italian_battleship_Dante_Alighieri
T V:   Conte Di Cavour                   https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conte_di_Cavour-class_battleship
T VI:  Caio Duilio                            https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Andrea_Doria-class_battleship                  Alternate make Francesco Caracciolo a premium at this Tier.
T VII: Francesco Caracciolo        https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Francesco_Caracciolo-class_battleship   As an edit see Phoenix_jz link for BB1935.
T VIII: Littorio                                 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Littorio-class_battleship
T IX:   Impero    (Impero and Piave/BB1936 come from the links below)
T X:    Piave
 
 
*:   Tier V and VIII were already decided.

Well you got a pre-dreadnought at tier 3. Do you hate Italians or something? That Pre-dreadnought wouldn't stand a chance at tier 3. I'm afraid a paper design, perhaps a preliminary design of on of their first dreadnoughts, would have to be chosen. I know people whine and complain about seeing paper designs in tree lines. I say I'm okay with it, as long as their actual paper designs and not things that is literally made up my WG. *cough* *cough* Republic. Plus we honestly don't need anymore pre-dreadnoughts in the game.

Edited by Starfleet1701

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Re-updated list. Thanks to links from other contributors. Their links have been added for reference.

Edited by Totenliste
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I'm heavily in favor of Italian Battleships coming soon, and this list sounds very solid along with the other contributors ideas and lists. 
I would note that while it's highly likely the Tier VIII will appear as Littorio, it's possible they could place her ingame as Italia instead, as she was renamed during the war.  Also possible for another premium with the Vittorio Veneto, perhaps as a Tier IX FXP/coal but with boosted consumables and soft stats ala Richelieu/Jean Bart situation. 
I'm also excited for the idea of them following along with SAP, as the larger calibers will change with what they interact with, providing a slightly different experience to the cruisers. The cruisers can already slap for 10-20k on their best volleys, battleships slinging SAP would prove interesting, especially against destroyers and light cruisers that they constantly overpen. Especially with the Italian high velocity guns that love to overpen things, I think people will enjoy gravitating to SAP against lighter targets and switching to AP when facing real armor. The dynamic of this with cruiser guns is a bit off, SAP overall needs buffs, but with BBs who rely on Alpha strikes mostly, it'll be better. 
Gotta say too, all the italian cruisers are damn beautiful, even the 'fake' ones. 
I have little doubt that the battleships will also be hella lookers. 

Mostly though I'm interested in my free Roma known as Littorio
 

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5 hours ago, Seniorious said:

Also possible for another premium with the Vittorio Veneto, perhaps as a Tier IX FXP/coal but with boosted consumables and soft stats ala Richelieu/Jean Bart situation. 

I was figuring Impero for that. With either Veneto or Littorio as another T8 premium while the other is the tech tree ship, since WG is pretty adamant that Roma is ok.

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On 12/26/2018 at 2:42 AM, Totenliste said:

The Colossus was just the idea of using one caliber of gun on a ship not an actual design per say. https://www.gingkoedizioni.it/vittorio-emanuele-cuniberti-the-little-known-italian-engineer-who-changed-naval-warfare/  

As I understand it, the Cuniberti "colossi" was introduced to the Italian government but, the design was rejected for budgetary reasons.

This all-big-gun design would be nice to see at T3 (maybe -- stretching it here -- T4).

 

Cuniberti_ideal_colossi_battleship_1904.png

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now THATS a LOT of guns!

edit: oh wait, it's only 12

eh, still lotsa guns, I like it

Edited by Shrayes_Bhagavatula

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