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DiddleDum

Aiming at bow-on ships?

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Been searching for Youtube videos on aiming at bow-on ships.   Watched plenty on using the different reticles, leading, ammo selection, etc.

What I haven't found are any guidelines on aiming at bow-on ships.    Primary scenario is me in a BB (usually T8 - 10).   Cruiser engages and is usually 12km or closer.   And they stop, bow-on, or with a slight angle (looks less than 30 degrees).

And volley after volley seems to do minimal damage.      I understand that some cruisers have tanky armor.  That's fine, but volley after volley?    If I'm in a similar situation and bow-on to a BB in my cruiser, I usually lose 75% of my health or sink.

So, apparently there's some key to aiming bow-on that I'm missing.    Recent frustrations have been with Des Moines, Moskva, and Kronstadt.

Does anyone know of any specific Youtube videos that deal with angled-in aiming?   Or could provide pointers on aim points that seem to get results?      

Thanks in advance.

Edited by DiddleDum

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2 minutes ago, DiddleDum said:

Been searching for Youtube videos on aiming at bow-on ships.   Watched plenty on using the different reticles, leading, ammo selection, etc.

What I haven't found are any guidelines on aiming at bow-on ships.    Primary scenario is me in a BB (usually T8 - 10).   Cruiser engages and is usually 12km or closer.   And they stop, bow-on, or with a slight angle (looks less than 30 degrees).

And volley after volley seems to do minimal damage.      I understand that some cruisers have tanky armor.  That's fine, but volley after volley?    If I'm in a similar situation and bow-on to a BB in my cruiser, I usually lose 75% of my health or sink.

So, apparently there's some key to aiming bow-on that I'm missing.    Recent frustrations have been with Des Moines, Moskva, and Kronstadt.

Does anyone know of any specific Youtube videos that deal with angled-in aiming?   Or could provide pointers on aim points that seem to get results?      

Thanks in advance.

Depends on the situation

If you are the person attempting to bow tank:

This will vary between ship types but if you are in a BB i would preferably bow-tank except against larger than 410mm guns then you're screwed no matter what due to the extreme overmatch, at this point you angle to use bouncing. Cruisers would depend on the ship and armor given but i would recommend angling to activate/abuse the auto-bounce feature.  Small caliber AP i.e. CL, DD ammo just bow-in and they cant harm you unless they use it on the superstructure or switch to HE.

If you are aiming at a bow tanker:

Try to aim for the conning tower or base of the superstructure to at least get some penetration damage. Superstructure base is a hard shot at long range since the enemy's turret #2 will probably eat most of the shells but you have the bonus chance of destroying that turret. This option is better for submerged citadel broadside engagements or turtleback armor broadsides. If at long range I would go for the conning tower because, oddly enough, there are instances where penetrating the conning tower could give you a random citadel. Seeing as the conning tower is one of the more heavily armored sections of the ship aside from turret faces, i can see how the shell penetration might cause a citadel hit because you are hitting a vital part of the ship, the command deck.

 

This is just my two cents of help for you from experience, let me know if it works out for you.

-Ace6steel

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@DiddleDum

Depends on what you're driving.

You specifically mention having trouble with bow-on cruisers, so we'll take Hindenburg as example, in a slightly off bow-on position:

al7BbRc.jpg

The green bits of armor are 27mm thick, except for the part that I crossed out. That bit is 40mm. The blue superstructure is 16mm. The yellow turret armor, belt and barbettes are 80-150mm thick. The belt extends way to the back, but is covered by a 27mm torpedo plate.

When you're faced with a ship at this angle, overmatch starts playing a significant role. Armor plates at steep angles like this will reliably bounce all AP except AP that overmatches, which calibers 14.3 times the thickness of the armor plate does. Meaning that if you're shooting (27 * 14.3) 386mm or larger, your shells will just yolo through the green plates and anything thinner (like the superstructure) without slowing down. This has a few effects:

  • If there's nothing substantial behind the plate you just overmatched, the shell will just go out the other end without doing significant damage. You overpenned for 10% listed damage.
  • If there's something more substantial behind the plate you just overmatched (like a barbette, turtleback or citadel) chances are your shell will detonate inside the ship for 33% damage, a normalpen.

Mind that the 40mm bit at sufficient angle, like in the screenshot, will reliably bounce any and all AP, including Yamato shells. In fact, you need shells larger than (40 * 14.3) 572mm to overmatch the 40mm bit. So you can forget about that.

The yellow bits are between 80 and 150mm thick, depending on which one. These can bounce any battleship shell if you hit them at an unfortunate angle. However, if they're flat on to you - like the turretfaces when it's aiming at you - your AP shells can just go on through. However, since the turrets are not counted as part of the hull, damaging the turrets will not do damage to the hitpoints of the ship.

So you have a few things to keep in mind.

  • If you shoot battleship caliber AP at the superstructure when the cruiser is angled like in the picture, it'll just go in one end and out the other end for minimal damage.
  • If you shoot battleship caliber AP at the turrets, you'll have a chance to disable the turrets, but do very limited damage to the ship's hitpoints, since turrets are counted as external modules.
  • If you shoot at the side, at the waterline, you'll just bounce off the heavily armored belt, or the 40mm bit.
  • If you shoot battleship caliber AP at the very bow when the ship is angled like that, it'll just go in one side and out the other:

tvB2Yqe.jpg

So where do you shoot, if you have battleship caliber shells that overmatch the 27mm plating and 16mm superstructure?

rdKClGF.jpg

Try to aim there. That's a 27mm section, so you'll overmatch. You'll hit above the belt so no auto bounce. There's still a significant portion of the cruiser behind the point of impact, so you'll have less chance of overpenning. This is your best bet for juicy 33% damage hits. Forget about citadel hits though, chances are very slim that you'll hit those, the 40mm plate is in the way of the citadel athwartship and will keep any AP in this game out. Remember that if the cruiser is moving forward you'll have to aim ahead of the indicated point; you'll want to aim at a point so that your shells will hit at the indicated spot.

If you're driving a cruiser or something else that doesn't overmatch, try to put shells into the superstructure, here:

z5cSA5E.jpg

The 27mm plating at that angle will just autobounce any AP shells, while the shape of the superstructure means you have a better chance to go in, and cruiser AP will trigger from the 16mm plate and detonate inside the superstructure for 33% pens.

So in short:

  • Aim for plating that you can overmatch
  • Aim for parts of the ship that have sufficient volume of ship behind it to allow your fuses to detonate
  • Avoid hitting the turrets if you want to do hitpoint damage
  • Know where the thicker plates that will autobounce your shells are
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Lert went into more detail. For me, I think like this.

 

Know the thickness of their bow armour and the caliber of your gun. Certain amounts of bow armor can be overmatched by certain caliber guns. Main ones are:

  1. 25mm on all BB's t7 and below-overmatched by 15" and larger
  2. 27mm on high tier USN and KM CA's-overmatched by 16" and larger
  3. 32mm all BB's T8-10-overmatched by 18.1" (NOT Conq 457)

Know the caliber of your guns and the thickness of the bowtanking ship. If you can overmatch it, then just aim anywhere on the bow. If you don't overmatch, aim higher for the superstructure, load HE (not recommended unless you're an RN BB or Scharnhorst), or find a different target.

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You guys rock!     Excellent guidance, and many thanks Lert for the illustrations!    Time to go find some bow-on cruisers and work on my aim.       Will head to the training rooms to recreate those situations.

 

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Adding a somewhat related opinion to what @Lert just said; bow on at closer ranges there is the option of DELIBERATELY aiming for the turrets; often repeatedly.

This can have two effects:

 Either disable or knock out a turret; meaning less guns shooting at you. (An incapacitation is hoped for; actual turret kill is icing on the cake.)

Force a use of Damage Control.

If the target chooses to wait and not use DC; this puts the turret at risk of being killed if it takes a second penetration; and again means less guns shooting at you. Use of DC to get the turret on line again means it isn’t there to stop fires (you have focused secondaries, right?) or flooding, (from any source.)

 

 

Edited by Estimated_Prophet
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The other thing to take into account, enemy ship speed. If they're moving toward you you'll have to compensate and aim lower on the water.  IE aiming at waterline on a ship moving towards you bow on, the shells will sometimes land in the middle of the ship or even the stern.  Conversely if they're moving away in reverse aiming at the bow waterline means a miss.  I find myself aiming middle to high superstructure in those occasions to have the shells land mid ship or around the forward turrets.  Last but not least, the lack of damage has to be taken into account with dispersion.  A skinny target will offer less to aim at.  Add in the inaccuracies inherent in your guns with the RNG and a bow on ship, unless at close to medium ranges, is already going to suffer from less hits, then take the probability of a citadel and decrease it due to the ship angle and your not going to be doing the same amount of damage as you may be used to. 

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Agreed on the dispersion.    In my matches, I'll be firing six guns from Monty's front.   I expect half of those rounds will go wonky due to dispersion.     Last night, the Des Moines I was fighting got under 6km.   I'm sure there wasn't any way to get those rounds to converge on a target that close.   I was hoping the two middle barrels would hit the target.   Well, they did hit, and I'd get 1350 or a bounce.     Sounds like Lert's overpen description.

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2 minutes ago, DiddleDum said:

Well, they did hit, and I'd get 1350 or a bounce.     Sounds like Lert's overpen description.

Sure does.

EGZkayL.jpg

Same armor values as Hindenburg, really. 27mm plating, avoid the belt, aim for the same spots as on Hindenburg.

Of course, that won't guarantee deletions, but it will likely increase your damage output.

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Respect for Lert's advice, I'll be giving that a try rather than relying on just HE in future, even with my mediocre aim.

Edited by Harathan

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Where you want to aim exactly is just under the turrets and at the base of the superstructure, against all ship types angled like this. This is the center mass for doing full penetration damage, as most shells entering that area will hit through the superstructure or deflect off of the barbettes and into the upper belt, giving you full penetration damage. You might also score some lucky citadels depending on how your shells enter the upper belt, most commonly seems to be against German BBs and IJN CAs. 

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8 hours ago, Lert said:

So where do you shoot, if you have battleship caliber shells that overmatch the 27mm plating and 16mm superstructure?

rdKClGF.jpg

Try to aim there. That's a 27mm section, so you'll overmatch.

A slight correction since that's Hindenburg your'e talking about.  That section of armor on her is 30mm, not 27.  Maybe you got it confused with DM?  DM has 27mm in that section.  To Overmatch Hindenburg in that location, you need 430mm or larger.

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