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CaptainTeddybear

Harugumo - Reload vs Range

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Any opinions on this? I've tried both and definitely good points and bad points for each.

I kind of prefer the reload because the play is more DDish, but range is definitely good with passive teams of which there are a lot.

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I found that reload suited me better. 

The ship has the handling of a BB and with the increase in detectability when firing with longer range the more potential reds there are to fire on you.

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4 hours ago, Camo68 said:

I found that reload suited me better. 

The ship has the handling of a BB and with the increase in detectability when firing with longer range the more potential reds there are to fire on you.

if one ship spots you, all of the ships spot you, so that reasoning is out the window. Reload vs range also depends on random vs ranked/cb. Range is useful when you have ships huddling behind islands. Reload is more DD centric.

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Usually range. 

She plays mostly like a CL.  Range lets you use more cover options to engage targets without using smoke.  You can kite targets safer with range as well.

ETA:  The difference in DPM is more than made up by keeping your guns going more consistently.

Edited by Destroyer_KuroshioKai

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2 hours ago, Bill_Halsey said:

if one ship spots you, all of the ships spot you, so that reasoning is out the window.

Not necessarily. If you put rock between  you and your target, you don't have to worry as much about who can see you from the sides. Less likely that red ships you can't see will be able to see you. Also, it can be easier to go dark if you sink your target or he smokes up if your visibility circle is smaller. That can be a factor in the decision to engage a target or stay dark. Somewhat situational but not irrelevant.

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32 minutes ago, Sabot_100 said:

Not necessarily. If you put rock between  you and your target, you don't have to worry as much about who can see you from the sides. Less likely that red ships you can't see will be able to see you. Also, it can be easier to go dark if you sink your target or he smokes up if your visibility circle is smaller. That can be a factor in the decision to engage a target or stay dark. Somewhat situational but not irrelevant.

You forgot about hydro and radar. Those can go thru rocks,. Plus you forgot that the assured detection range is 2/3km, Doesn't matter if an island is between you and the reds if the distance is at 2 km or below. Or he smoked up. So you need to be aware of those factors. 

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1 hour ago, Bill_Halsey said:

You forgot about hydro and radar. Those can go thru rocks,. Plus you forgot that the assured detection range is 2/3km, Doesn't matter if an island is between you and the reds if the distance is at 2 km or below. Or he smoked up. So you need to be aware of those factors. 

None of these factors have any bearing on whether it is more advantageous to extend your range a bit or get faster firing guns. Radar is bane to all the IJN gunboats as is hydro to a lesser extent. Stock guns can already out shoot radar. Longer range guns allow a bigger margin and will allow you to engage targets farther away. Just pointing out that there are some situational drawbacks to having guns shoot to longer ranges with declining effectiveness since it is a double edged sword where you can also be seen from further away. Most times it won't make a difference but it can.

D_K above makes some good arguments for the longer range. It is a personal choice as to whether you think these drawbacks tip things in favor of faster guns.  Do you find yourself frustrated more often by having juicy targets just a bit out of range or targets that just take a bit too long to kill. Do you often have only short windows where you can shoot and want to do max damage in that window. Biggest factor is: Can YOU hit moving targets reliably at long range with these guns.

If a red ship is close enough for assured detection to kick in, having faster guns may become critical real soon. Longer range just became moot.

Edited by Sabot_100
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I had both BFE and AFT but found it necessary to drop AFT and take CE instead for anything competitive.  For ranked or CB, you cannot go without CE, IMHO. So reload > range.  You can still rain HE on most cruisers from outside their radar range.

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Went with reload because can't consistently hit much beyond stock range unless they are hardly moving or going in a straight line.  With all reload skills and modules I've gotten to 1.8 or 1.9 sec reload with adrenaline rush.  That extra damage is what has consistently made it so I could kill full hp destroyers when I run across them with almost no hp of my own.  Not that I recommend doing it all the time but I've had straight up slugging matches with cruisers at close range and melted them before they could do the same to me.  It's a glorious thing to have your reload low enough you dont hear a break between firing entire sets of volleys.

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Reload.

I'd drop CE entirely and grab AFT to make up for drop in range, and play it like a mini Worcester with smoke. The shell arcs are 'bad' enough to fire over islands quite well, and smoke is handy for making concealment where island cover won't cut it.

It's a little tricky to play without CE, but even with the increased surface detection - you're still more liable to get randomly detected by radar at higher tiers which doesn't give a damn about your concealment or what cover you have. Even if an enemy DD out spots you, they'll probably turn away. If they get closer or open fire after spotting you... well they're going to regret it since you're in a Harugumo!

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23 minutes ago, Fast_Battleship_Iowa said:

I'd drop CE entirely and grab AFT to make up for drop in range, 

Sacrilege! Blasphemer! Thou shalt not run an IJN DD without CE unless thy captain has not yet come of age (earned his 10th point). :cap_book:

I guess it could be made to work but it is going to be a scary road to travel.

Edited by Sabot_100

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On 12/5/2018 at 8:32 PM, Sabot_100 said:

Sacrilege! Blasphemer! Thou shalt not run an IJN DD without CE unless thy captain has not yet come of age (earned his 10th point). :cap_book:

I guess it could be made to work but it is going to be a scary road to travel.

Its easy, play it like a concealment khaba. enable your other dds to win caps and survive with high hp.

 

Unless they are very bad at dds that is. 

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12 minutes ago, French_DD_Hype said:

Its easy, play it like a concealment khaba. enable your other dds to win caps and survive with high hp.

But you don't have Khabs speed or armor. Only up to the Kita myself but I am generally everyones favorite pinata when spotted.

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I'm going to throw out a crazy idea and say take it all. 

 

This build REQUIRES Yamamoto but allows you to take it all

 

PT

PM

AR

DE

IFHE

CE

AFT

Mods:

Accuracy

Engine boost

Reload

 

Beastly build but needs Yamamoto to work best

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