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Lady_Athena

Done playing above tier 8+...

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Idk if others feel this way, but I honestly feel like higher tiers is just a convoluted mess of unbalanced mechanics that creates more of a toxic game environment (not toxic player wise, just toxic mechanics that are far more aggravating and annoying to deal with than anything).

Tier 5-7 is like a perfect balance.. You get some Hyrdo, you get some radar, you get some torp spams, and you get some fire spitters, you get a few ships that can fire with impunity behind islands, but its all manageable to a degree that isn't aggravating, or make you feel useless. Battleships can push forward within reason and tank damage, Cruisers can support those Battleships and hunt out Destroyers, Destroyers can push caps, and spot, etc. But none of them get utterly shut down entirely for half the game, or get burned and sunk in a matter of seconds because they decided to play how the ship is suppose to be played... Every ship has a powerful force on the team at all times, regardless of what class, nation, or type you're playing.

But once you get tier 8+ it becomes such a chaotic mess of aggravating, over powered crap.. This is why most tier 8+ games played on the back lines.. Why Battleships rarely push, why cruisers are always camping behind islands, and why Destroyers are always complaining about being useless.. Because they all negate each other to such an over powered extent, nobody can do anything..

I'm not saying you can't do well. I'm not saying there isn't strategy, and I'm not saying you can't survive. But that doesn't make my points any less valid.

IFHE cruisers demolishing HP pools of any Battleship brave enough to press his W key. Torpedo spams completely shutting down half the map because of the alleyways down the maps. The Radar completely destroying a DD's chance of doing what they're supposed to do, cruisers unable to push past an island without getting 1 shot... It's all so broken and unbalanced, aggravating and far less fun than lower tiers.

The power of the ships have not been upgraded uniformly to the power of the active mechanics.

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Actually - having played a few tier 6 games in my Warspite that I recently got and a crap ton of 9/10 games in the Missouri and Republique....   Tier 9/10 are better IMHO...  The games last longer, people generally know how to play while many folks in tier 6 barely know how to play.  Too many games in the Warspite with multiple kills to have only 1 other person on the team who has a kill.  Too many want to go down mid on 2 Brothers and help the team lose even faster - because they really have no idea what they are doing.  I hated high tier for a long time - but over the last several months I have learned to appreciate it.

Edited by CylonRed
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Had a tier 10 match last night where the enemy team had 5 radar cruisers to our none.

Funny thing, they all hid behind islands to use their {advantage}......... effectively putting their guns out of action. We won handily.

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OP, I know what you mean.  High tier play is terrible.  Its boring, and honestly, I dislike the hiding behind islands, no one spotting, and everyone staying back.  Some like that playstyle, some don't.

50 minutes ago, CylonRed said:

The games last longer, people generally know how to play while many folks in tier 6 barely know how to play.  Too many games in the Warspite with multiple kills to have only 1 other person on the team who has a kill.

Upper tier games only last longer because everyone hides and stays back.  (And upper tier players doesn't mean they know how to play, that's a myth.)

Honestly, I have more games where one team stomps the other in upper tier than lower tier.

Personally T1 coop is 100% more exciting than a T8-10 battle in random.

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1 hour ago, Lady_Athena said:

Idk if others feel this way, but I honestly feel like higher tiers is just a convoluted mess of unbalanced mechanics that creates more of a toxic game environment (not toxic player wise, just toxic mechanics that are far more aggravating and annoying to deal with than anything).

Tier 5-7 is like a perfect balance.. You get some Hyrdo, you get some radar, you get some torp spams, and you get some fire spitters, you get a few ships that can fire with impunity behind islands, but its all manageable to a degree that isn't aggravating, or make you feel useless. Battleships can push forward within reason and tank damage, Cruisers can support those Battleships and hunt out Destroyers, Destroyers can push caps, and spot, etc. But none of them get utterly shut down entirely for half the game, or get burned and sunk in a matter of seconds because they decided to play how the ship is suppose to be played... Every ship has a powerful force on the team at all times, regardless of what class, nation, or type you're playing.

But once you get tier 8+ it becomes such a chaotic mess of aggravating, over powered crap.. This is why most tier 8+ games played on the back lines.. Why Battleships rarely push, why cruisers are always camping behind islands, and why Destroyers are always complaining about being useless.. Because they all negate each other to such an over powered extent, nobody can do anything..

I'm not saying you can't do well. I'm not saying there isn't strategy, and I'm not saying you can't survive. But that doesn't make my points any less valid.

IFHE cruisers demolishing HP pools of any Battleship brave enough to press his W key. Torpedo spams completely shutting down half the map because of the alleyways down the maps. The Radar completely destroying a DD's chance of doing what they're supposed to do, cruisers unable to push past an island without getting 1 shot... It's all so broken and unbalanced, aggravating and far less fun than lower tiers.

The power of the ships have not been upgraded uniformly to the power of the active mechanics.

Close to two years ago, I basically made the same post. it is just a different game at tier ten. its a hard metric to swallow, and may not be worth the time. If you like tier7 and below just play it. Its fun, generic and fun... ya I said that twice. High tier play is really frustrating..and frankly more challenging than most realize. it took me thousands of games to adapt, but now, if I play tier 8 and get in a 6-8 match, I cringe as it is like herding cats.....

My advice is to slowly dip your toe into high tier play. Enjoy the game, but after awhile  you will find your happiness/fun level and wherever that may fall, just play it.

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Yeah best option I find is try to play somewhat uniformly between most tiers. I suppose when you feel like you're adept enough to progress to the higher tiers on a line then go for it. I simply can't play BBs or CAs above 7 so for the moment I don't go past it. There is little point with CVs right now either as of course the rework redefines the class quite a bit. So true that it is a different game at 10 even compared to a few tiers lower.

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17 hours ago, Lady_Athena said:

Idk if others feel this way, but I honestly feel like higher tiers is just a convoluted mess of unbalanced mechanics that creates more of a toxic game environment (not toxic player wise, just toxic mechanics that are far more aggravating and annoying to deal with than anything).

Tier 5-7 is like a perfect balance.. You get some Hyrdo, you get some radar, you get some torp spams, and you get some fire spitters, you get a few ships that can fire with impunity behind islands, but its all manageable to a degree that isn't aggravating, or make you feel useless. Battleships can push forward within reason and tank damage, Cruisers can support those Battleships and hunt out Destroyers, Destroyers can push caps, and spot, etc. But none of them get utterly shut down entirely for half the game, or get burned and sunk in a matter of seconds because they decided to play how the ship is suppose to be played... Every ship has a powerful force on the team at all times, regardless of what class, nation, or type you're playing.

But once you get tier 8+ it becomes such a chaotic mess of aggravating, over powered crap.. This is why most tier 8+ games played on the back lines.. Why Battleships rarely push, why cruisers are always camping behind islands, and why Destroyers are always complaining about being useless.. Because they all negate each other to such an over powered extent, nobody can do anything..
 

Yeah, I quit high tiers as well. I seldom play T9-10, and am playing T8 only to collect information on the T8 MM, which so far appears to have no changes. 

High tiers matches suck. I just play mostly T7, which is the best balanced tier right now.

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High Tiers are and Boring . everyone hides and waits ,ZERO in doing that  I only play certain tier (9) and (10) when in those rare moods come to me...…….

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 The game is supposed to provide fun and bring you joy so you do you. High tier is not for everyone.

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49 minutes ago, Wowzery said:

OP, I know what you mean.  High tier play is terrible.  Its boring, and honestly, I dislike the hiding behind islands, no one spotting, and everyone staying back.  Some like that playstyle, some don't.

Upper tier games only last longer because everyone hides and stays back.  (And upper tier players doesn't mean they know how to play, that's a myth.)

Honestly, I have more games where one team stomps the other in upper tier than lower tier.

Personally T1 coop is 100% more exciting than a T8-10 battle in random.

I disagree, to an extent.  People aren't so much "hiding" as they are just using cover to limit the number of enemies that can shoot at them.  If you're in something like a Woostah or a Mino, sure, you can outright "hide" behind an island and lob shells at the enemy unseen.  But other ships will just put a big island on the port or  starboard side to prevent enemies hitting them from that direction, while the player is engaging enemies in front of his ship.  This actually *IS* smart playing.

As for nobody spotting, well, that sounds like a failure of DDs doing their job.  And frankly, if there are ships on your team "hiding" but taking fire from enemies they don't see, then the OTHER team's DDs probably are doing their job and spotting.  Sometimes, a bit part of the problem is poor DD play.  One team may kill too many or all of your team's DDs fairly early in the battle and leave your team effectively blind.

 

Anyways, there's a significant split in opinions about what is fun and interesting play in WoWS.  Some players are very competitive, and will take the mechanics as they are and wring every advantage out of them that they can to win.  If that means patient, static play, it may not matter to them nearly as much as winning.  OTOH, there are players who are very much into dynamic game play.  Players who want to see ships constantly in motion, and so on.

I think that it comes down to this in the end.  If you have maps with a lot of islands, you're always going to have players trying to use those islands to their greatest advantage.  But if you want dynamic play, then maps should have the fewest number of islands possible, because when there are no islands, then your best defense is your mobility, or possibly your smoke, or perhaps for some BBs, fighting bow on.  But even bow on fighting becomes riskier when there are no islands, because the worst thing that can happen to a bow-on fighting BB and that's ending up with people shooting at your sides.  When there are islands, that BB can use the island to cover one or both of his sides.  But when there are no islands, that BB is very exposed.  Frankly, people who want more dynamic play should be all for maps that are a LOT more open for this very reason.

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1 hour ago, Wowzery said:

OP, I know what you mean.  High tier play is terrible.  Its boring, and honestly, I dislike the hiding behind islands, no one spotting, and everyone staying back.  Some like that playstyle, some don't.

Upper tier games only last longer because everyone hides and stays back.  (And upper tier players doesn't mean they know how to play, that's a myth.)

Honestly, I have more games where one team stomps the other in upper tier than lower tier.

Personally T1 coop is 100% more exciting than a T8-10 battle in random.

They are playing to the strengths of the ship - no issue with that.  Makes getting them to be far more challenging.  I drive BBs and generally don't stay back unless I am really wounded. 

No one stated all high tier players know how to play - my exact quote is:

The games last lo

nger, people generally know how to play

Generally - in general but that does not mean everyone does. 

As for coop - eh - nothing is worse than coop for me.  If I wanted near guarantee win then why play the game to begin with?

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She has a point, I can sum it up like this

  • I am to aggressive for tier 10 matches, its not that I dont have the will/ability to be good or succeed but in general tier 10 is not made for my play style.
  • Every class ship has an over powered aspect that is not balanced
  1. BBs recent buffs to AP make the power creep on cruisers or other class ships is a legitimate argument. Range is well to much (no use having range that is all or 3/4ths of the map), Accuracy unrealistic bit arcade-ish in that regard. 
  2. DDs, have to be overpowered to drain the BB HP pool which is over 2 to 1 or in some cases 3 to 1 ratio then the other ship classes, the DMG output has to be high to counter the BBs. Not the mention radar soup.
  3. Cruisers, over powered as a utility as their tools are over kill. RN cruisers suffer from Power creep with BB AP, does make new guys rage when getting over 38k DMG in one salvo from a BB from over 15km to 20 km away. (try as you can, you can protect your citadel from BBs you engage, its the "where that heck did that BB shots came from" are the rage inducing. You check the Mini map and he was on he other side of the map).
  4. CVs, The alfa strike of a tier 10 CV makes the CV over powered too. I have seen (if a CV player wants you gone) Dev strikes of BBs, Cruisers, or DDs. Dont get me wrong i will cost some planes but a smart CV player knows how its done... You're back in rage port mode 5 min afer the match has started.
  • WOWS has favored certain types of play style in tier 10. Is that favoritism which makes the game play at tier 10 to become stale. After a while with this knowledge, you can guess where everyone is going to be. That don't happen often in mid to low tiers, more verity of play styles = fun/inclusive gaming experience overall.

As for me. I think I play a few tier 8 mainly tier 7 matches but my stats dont lie, I hang around tier 4. But I understand the OP's frustration of the gaming experience of tier 10 matches. Its not for all or the faint of heart.

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 Try playing your high tier ships in Co-op before docking them permanently.   You won't be seeing much camping then, lol!   And if your teammates do try it,  the bots will come anyway.  * 1 caviat: if you plan on playing a DD, you'd better be GOOD- the AI acts like DD players just slandered their next of kin,  told them Santa isn't real, and screamed GO PATRIOTS!!! in Buffalo, NY.  Just assume they always know where you are, (because they do) and will come at you guns blazing.   

  It's a much more action packed, brawly playstyle.   Ships like Mass; Montana; Alsace; etc thrive on it.  And US CA's often have plenty of targets to smash with their excellent 8" AP.    It's actually pretty fun.  The AI may be stoopid, but they have deadly aim, rarely miss with torpedoes, and can dodge with superhuman ability.   They are a different kind of challenge to deal with.

  I agree with you,  I've tried my hand at tier 8-10 in Randoms- and the meta just set my teeth on edge...

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54 minutes ago, Crucis said:

I think that it comes down to this in the end.  If you have maps with a lot of islands, you're always going to have players trying to use those islands to their greatest advantage

IF, and I mean IF, they were firing I wouldn't have a problem.  But they are just sitting there hiding and yelling at everyone (and no, having a T10 ship doesn't mean your good or worthy of listening to). 

I love the T10 ships, I want all the T10 BBs, but the gameplay of T10 sucks.  You can tout the knowing the ships, knowing islands, etc, the gameplay is boring.    I love my T8 and 9 ships (well, as much as one can love the Izumo) but one random game with T10 ships makes me want to punch a hole in my monitor by the gameplay.

And yes, coop is much better than a T8-10 random match.  At least in that game I know it won't be a snooze-fest.

Others can say otherwise, but this is what I see in those matches.  I'm not going to play 10 games at that tier just to get one good game when it happens regularly at lower tiers.

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11 minutes ago, Wowzery said:

IF, and I mean IF, they were firing I wouldn't have a problem.  But they are just sitting there hiding and yelling at everyone (and no, having a T10 ship doesn't mean your good or worthy of listening to). 

I love the T10 ships, I want all the T10 BBs, but the gameplay of T10 sucks.  You can tout the knowing the ships, knowing islands, etc, the gameplay is boring.    I love my T8 and 9 ships (well, as much as one can love the Izumo) but one random game with T10 ships makes me want to punch a hole in my monitor by the gameplay.

And yes, coop is much better than a T8-10 random match.  At least in that game I know it won't be a snooze-fest.

Others can say otherwise, but this is what I see in those matches.  I'm not going to play 10 games at that tier just to get one good game when it happens regularly at lower tiers.

I don't see that when I play.  It's like we're playing two different games.

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4 hours ago, Lady_Athena said:

Tier 5-7 is like a perfect balance.. You get some Hyrdo, you get some radar, you get some torp spams, and you get some fire spitters, you get a few ships that can fire with impunity behind islands, but its all manageable to a degree that isn't aggravating, or make you feel useless. Battleships can push forward within reason and tank damage, Cruisers can support those Battleships and hunt out Destroyers, Destroyers can push caps, and spot, etc. But none of them get utterly shut down entirely for half the game, or get burned and sunk in a matter of seconds because they decided to play how the ship is suppose to be played... Every ship has a powerful force on the team at all times, regardless of what class, nation, or type you're playing.

Just few things here:

-Below T8, only PREMIUMS ship have access to radar.

-Below T8, only some PREMIUMS have access to concealment mod

-Ship can get entirely shut down for half of the game at all tier. That's not uncommon to get burned to death because of RN BB or Atlanta/Belfast.

-At these tier people aren't necessarily playing the ship as they are supposed to be played. Same can be said for high tier but the difference is : at low-mid tier, you can get away with doing stupid things. At high tier, you get instantly punished for showing broadside to a Yamato as a cruiser.

4 hours ago, Lady_Athena said:


But once you get tier 8+ it becomes such a chaotic mess of aggravating, over powered crap.. This is why most tier 8+ games played on the back lines.. Why Battleships rarely push, why cruisers are always camping behind islands, and why Destroyers are always complaining about being useless.. Because they all negate each other to such an over powered extent, nobody can do anything..

I'm not saying you can't do well. I'm not saying there isn't strategy, and I'm not saying you can't survive. But that doesn't make my points any less valid.

 

The higher you play, the stronger ship becomes. Obviously a radar ship will be more powerfull as it progress through the line. Obviously, BB becomes stronger as you advance through the line.

4 hours ago, Lady_Athena said:

 IFHE cruisers demolishing HP pools of any Battleship brave enough to press his W key. Torpedo spams completely shutting down half the map because of the alleyways down the maps. The Radar completely destroying a DD's chance of doing what they're supposed to do, cruisers unable to push past an island without getting 1 shot... It's all so broken and unbalanced, aggravating and far less fun than lower tiers.

 

And this is where your argument doesn't makes sense:

 -What is the difference between IFHE cruiser demolishing HP of any BB at T10 and IFHE cruiser demolishing BB HP at T7?

-The "torps spam" isn't different between T7 and T10. In fact most T10 DD have CD on torps that are >1min 50 sec while at T7, most torps reload in roughly 1min15 sec.

-As mentionned above, radar below T8 is non existant unless someone brings a premium ship.  The fact that premium ship have access to a consummable / module that is ONLY available for silver ship a tier above is proof that something is unbalanced.

-T10 cruiser can survive against T10 BB if that cruiser knows what he's doing. A York can't bounce Colorado shell however Hindenburg can bounce Montana shells.

 

In fact :

 

-An IFHE Helena will melt a Nagato without any trouble whereas an IFHE Worcester will have trouble to do so against Yamato because of that 50mm deck armor.

-Most high tier ship have access to Hydro + Catapult fighter which makes torps boat less powerfull

-CA gain armor you can use to survive longer.

 

But the thing is, making poor decision at high tier is heavily punished and considering 90% of the playerbase doesn't makes good decision, they end up doing nothing but waiting, waiting for that single player to make a move and secure alone a pth so that the rest of the team can sail here doing nothing. 

 

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