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richie_macrophage

Question for 60% of all DD users

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When in a contested cap zone, how come you guys don't even shoot back with your own guns? You are too close to the enemy and there's no way you're going to remain hidden for a while so might as well just shoot back, right? You have 6 fast-firing destroyer guns but you don't even use them?

 

Clarification: These people are brawling other DDs. I see a fletcher going right into a cap zone and seeing a Jutland in sight, while the Jutland pounds away at him, the Fletcher doesn't even shoot back at all.

Edited by TitanicMan2
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Simple... for a quick escape...

If im 5.2kms off of a Nicholas while in a Fujin, All I have to do is travel 200m and I'm no longer spotted. If I open fire I will have to run for 20 seconds versus 5 seconds.

Smart DD's will hold their fire until they are able to stealth up. Of course this wont work if you cannot out-run the ship spotting you, or if there is gaydar. That's when it's time for smoke. But if the smoke is on cool-down, it's time to wiggle, run and gun, and hope your teammates will assist. Which they usually don't...

Edited by ElectroVeeDub
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If you’re detection range is 5.8km and your gun range is 10km, then if you are spotted at 5.4km would you rather run .4km without firing or have to run for 20s? Usually it’s a matter of 4s vs 20s. The difference is major.

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It all depends on how much support the red DD has. If he has few or no support ships nearby and I'm not outgunned by the red DD, I open fire and try for the kill. However, if there are several red cruisers or BBs nearby, then I'm going to do what it takes to get undetected, even if it means taking a few k of damage from the dd in the process. DD guns hurt much less than BB or CA guns, even after the BB AP nerf.

As others have said above, its all about gun bloom.

Edited by mrieder79

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Because every time my guns go off, some suicidal crewman sets off air raid sirens and fireworks displays that can be seen and heard in the Andromeda galaxy for the next 20 seconds. For destroyers, seconds are like dog years.

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Basically what these guys said. You stay spotted for a lot longer if you fire.

 

when shooting, you’re usually commiting, and a lot of the time it’s more valuable to stay alive and get some support before you enter a close range knife fight against another high DPM destroyer, lose half or more of your health, then can’t afford another knife fight or get obliterated by a support cruiser. Better to live and fight another day then get 4000 damage and be killed by 4 ships. Sometimes the DD May misread the situation, like being lit by radar from a cruiser that’s really closer where you might as well tickle them a bit while your run untilt he radar is closer to going dark.

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Usually my gunners are on break drinking vodka. Hence we're not shooting comrade.  And basically what the other have said. It's better to out run his detection of 1 than the gun bloom of detected by 4. This is done while hoping that you're shooting at his bloom being spotted by 4  

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It really is mostly just gunbloom.  If I'm firing my guns I am making a commitment to keep that circle.  Even then having both speed boost and smoke ready to go is it really just depends what map/position I am in.  if I can slip behind a mountain or there is large terrain blocking incoming fire I'll usually bloody a few noses as I scoot away.

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Well if you are escaping, yes holding fire is recommended.

 

But often these people are directly charging and have no plans to retreat, or their retreat will take longer than the firing time.

Might as well do some damage if you can't escape quick enough?

Most of them I notice also do not deploy smokes.

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several possible reasons depending on the ship your in and the situation.    If your looking to run away then you don't fire and turn away to get out of detection range.  Firing the gun guarantees that you'll remain spotted for the next 30 seconds... (which is a minimum of 10 salvo's fired if the opposing DD in the cap is a IJN Gunboat (Akizuki, Kitakaze, Harugumo) And these are not the only fast firing DD in the game!  

This is a pretty powerful reason to not fire one guns if you can get out of detection range.

I use my guns when in a DD however as I rarely expect to get away!

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2 minutes ago, TitanicMan2 said:

Most of them I notice also do not deploy smokes.

I try to get the enemy DD to smoke up first. If you didn’t shoot then YOU are also now undetected and can spot the enemy from outside smoke, while the red DD is in smoke and cannot spot. Also, they have burnt their smoke and you still have it available if escape is necessary.

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32 minutes ago, TitanicMan2 said:

When in a contested cap zone, how come you guys don't even shoot back with your own guns? You are too close to the enemy and there's no way you're going to remain hidden for a while so might as well just shoot back, right? You have 6 fast-firing destroyer guns but you don't even use them?

 

Clarification: These people are brawling other DDs. I see a fletcher going right into a cap zone and seeing a Jutland in sight, while the Jutland pounds away at him, the Fletcher doesn't even shoot back at all.

A while back their was a thing called Open Water Stealth Firing (OWSF) that allowed a DD to shoot its guns at a big BB with good armour, high HP and Heals. The main issue was the BB could do nothing back as it could not see the DD.

Quite rightly it was removed (no complaints), but replaced with a bloom that lit a DD up for 20 seconds allowing multiple enemies to fire at it. Most DDs do not have great armour, high HP or heals (great replacement mechanic eh?) lol.

So there you have it, comes down to a DD player having to consider what the consequence of his actions will be, as his play can be a little less forgiving than other ship types (of course the cruiser cit is not easy either lol). :Smile_honoring:

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7 minutes ago, TitanicMan2 said:

Well if you are escaping, yes holding fire is recommended.

 

But often these people are directly charging and have no plans to retreat, or their retreat will take longer than the firing time.

Might as well do some damage if you can't escape quick enough?

Most of them I notice also do not deploy smokes.

You don’t need plans to retreat UNLESS you fire. Most of the time both DD’s try to back away from each other while contesting unless one has significantly more backup. If you can’t escape quickly you do NOT want to fire unless you know you’re going to be spotted more than 20s which is rare. You do not want to use smoke unless you’re a UK DD because it is an entire waste of a smoke. You can’t use the smoke and you have to wait minutes for another. 

In almost every situation, DD’s are better off breaking contact and that’s about it.

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6 minutes ago, n00bot said:

I try to get the enemy DD to smoke up first. If you didn’t shoot then YOU are also now undetected and can spot the enemy from outside smoke, while the red DD is in smoke and cannot spot. Also, they have burnt their smoke and you still have it available if escape is necessary.

Plus you have some smoke to clear with torpedoes.

 

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The destroyer that shoots first is at a disadvantage because he will be forced to use his smoke screen if the other destroyer disappears into concealment or uses his own smoke screen, otherwise he will be detected and shot at. It's a common tactic to wait until the other destroyer shoots before you use your smoke screen so he will be detected while you and your team fire on him.

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23 hours ago, Ensign_Pulver_2016 said:

Plus you have some smoke to clear with torpedoes.

Yep, and if they leave the smoke, you’ll spot them instantly. If they don’t leave the smoke, you know where they are.

Smoking up instantly and reactively at the start of a DD fight is like hitting DCP on the first BB fire...

Edited by n00bot
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15 minutes ago, TitanicMan2 said:

Well if you are escaping, yes holding fire is recommended.

 

But often these people are directly charging and have no plans to retreat, or their retreat will take longer than the firing time.

Might as well do some damage if you can't escape quick enough?

Most of them I notice also do not deploy smokes.

:cap_yes: So this isn't so much a question but a complaint, or you indicating what another ship type should do (60% of us); yeah ok.

Edited by _WaveRider_
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The DD driver could be setting-up or launching torpedoes as well.  Same as some cruisers do when they should be using their guns instead.

 

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25 minutes ago, TitanicMan2 said:

Well if you are escaping, yes holding fire is recommended.

 

But often these people are directly charging and have no plans to retreat, or their retreat will take longer than the firing time.

Might as well do some damage if you can't escape quick enough?

Most of them I notice also do not deploy smokes.

I don't always carry smoke.

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Oh look, a BB main telling DD's how to play.

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1 hour ago, TitanicMan2 said:

When in a contested cap zone, how come you guys don't even shoot back with your own guns? You are too close to the enemy and there's no way you're going to remain hidden for a while so might as well just shoot back, right? You have 6 fast-firing destroyer guns but you don't even use them?

 

Clarification: These people are brawling other DDs. I see a fletcher going right into a cap zone and seeing a Jutland in sight, while the Jutland pounds away at him, the Fletcher doesn't even shoot back at all.

After 3k worth of battles- you still don’t understand DDs.  Shoot a enemy DD with 5-6 enemy ships backing them up is dumb and a good way to die early.  Only noobs open fire on dds when it’s not to their advantage. 

Your asking your DDs to die early, or get punished severely enough so you cant be effective later in the game.  Try playing some dds and see how your play style works for you and your team. Hint- it won’t be good.

Edited by shoy07

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18 minutes ago, shoy07 said:

After 3k worth of battles- you still don’t understand DDs.  Shoot a enemy DD with 5-6 enemy ships backing them up is dumb and a good way to die early.  Only noobs open fire on dds when it’s not to their advantage. 

Your asking your DDs to die early, or get punished severely enough so you cant be effective later in the game.  Try playing some dds and see how your play style works for you and your team. Hint- it won’t be good.

It's not like that. Our dds are more often supported by just as many ships and even with some friendly cruisers in. I can see the purpose of them not firing if they are planning to retreat which is perfectly understandable, but many persist staying in the cap zone, and often in smoke but not firing.

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9 minutes ago, TitanicMan2 said:

It's not like that. Our dds are more often supported by just as many ships and even with some friendly cruisers in. I can see the purpose of them not firing if they are planning to retreat which is perfectly understandable, but many persist staying in the cap zone, and often in smoke but not firing

 I can say with 100 percent certainty that your dds are not more often supported by just as many ships. First off BBs hide 20 KM from caps rarely advancing and Cruisers are hidden behind an island somewhere only able to fire on ships at range because the island blocks their shots at close range.

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