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What ships seem like downgrades?

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What ships do you feel are downgrades from the ship before them in the tech tree?

IMO the Seattle is a downgrade because of her larger size, clumsier handling, and poorer turret traverse + turret arcs.

When I played her, the Izumo felt like a downgrade over the faster, more powerfully armed Amagi, the Ibuki felt less powerful than the 155 Mogami, and the Donskoi felt like a fatter chappy.

Are there any other ships you guys think are downgrades?

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Most tier 9s, with few exceptions like Fletcher and Iowa, are downgrades on purpose. They're "gatekeepers" meant to convince people to spend money to get to tier 10.

 

Other downgrades of note that I've encountered were Mutsuki when she was the T6 IJN destroyer, Aoba feels like a downgrade from Furutaka (mostly due to the torpedo angles and MM), and Tashkent (Kiev was great before they moved it up)

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The tier 3 German cruiser was a horrific mess to play. I would have genuinely prefered to play the tier 2. Then the tier 4 somehow, inexplicably, through some dark sorcery which I do not understand, ends up being EVEN WORSE! I really don't understand why I didn't just fXP those bastards.

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2 minutes ago, KiyoSenkan said:

Most tier 9s, with few exceptions like Fletcher and Iowa, are downgrades on purpose. They're "gatekeepers" meant to convince people to spend money to get to tier 10.

 

Other downgrades of note that I've encountered were Mutsuki when she was the T6 IJN destroyer, Aoba feels like a downgrade from Furutaka (mostly due to the torpedo angles and MM), and Tashkent (Kiev was great before they moved it up)

I would add Tiaho to the exception list. Roon, Buffalo, and Udaloi get a pass imo because their tier viiis are so bad.

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1 minute ago, senseNOTmade said:

The tier 3 German cruiser was a horrific mess to play. I would have genuinely prefered to play the tier 2. Then the tier 4 somehow, inexplicably, through some dark sorcery which I do not understand, ends up being EVEN WORSE! I really don't understand why I didn't just fXP those bastards.

Tier 3 was the Kolberg.  Not worse, it just sees a lot more BBs.

Am getting ready to get the tier IV Karlsruhe.

And thanks for the buzzkill ;)

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V-170 and T-22. Pain.
Lyon. Having 4 more guns while losing .2 sigma, some maneuverability so and being 1 tier higher isn't worth it.
Edinburgh...to some extent, some would argue.
Podvoisky can't protecc, can't attacc, it succ.

Just now, senseNOTmade said:

The tier 3 German cruiser was a horrific mess to play. I would have genuinely prefered to play the tier 2. Then the tier 4 somehow, inexplicably, through some dark sorcery which I do not understand, ends up being EVEN WORSE! I really don't understand why I didn't just fXP those bastards.

Kolberg is...admittedly not as ludicrous as Dresden tier for tier, but she isn't bad
Karlsruhe forces you to use AP and abuse overmatch mechanics, you'd be surprised as of how many platings a 6-inch gun can overmatch at tier 4.
The key to both those ships is to zoom out one notch in gun sight mode at the beginning of the battle. If you can lead alright in both those ships, you will do just fine.
 

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3 minutes ago, DrHolmes52 said:

Tier 3 was the Kolberg.  Not worse, it just sees a lot more BBs.

Am getting ready to get the tier IV Karlsruhe.

And thanks for the buzzkill ;)

Just remembering those days brings back nausea.

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For me: Neptune and Kagero.  Maybe not fair to call them downgrades, but definitely ships that I struggled with while doing much better at the tier immediately before and after.

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5 minutes ago, The_first_harbinger said:

V-170 and T-22. Pain.
Lyon. Having 4 more guns while losing .2 sigma, some maneuverability so and being 1 tier higher isn't worth it.
Edinburgh...to some extent, some would argue.
Podvoisky can't protecc, can't attacc, it succ.

Kolberg is...admittedly not as ludicrous as Dresden tier for tier, but she isn't bad
Karlsruhe forces you to use AP and abuse overmatch mechanics, you'd be surprised as of how many platings a 6-inch gun can overmatch at tier 4.
The key to both those ships is to zoom out one notch in gun sight mode at the beginning of the battle. If you can lead alright in both those ships, you will do just fine.
 

Even the Kolberg does nasty things to IJN and RN cruisers at tiers 3 and 4.

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The Karlsruhe when it was released.  Most useless ship I had ever sailed, almost tailor made to get sunk and seemingly was armed with rubber shells and gun arcs requiring full broadside.

I'd also have rather had the Amagi then the Izumo at tier 9.  I also liked my NC way more then my Iowa.

I also found the Queen Elizabeth to be a huge downgrade from the Iron Duke.  I was managing such high damage numbers in the Iron Duke, I outright called her OP.

While the QE would struggle to even fight her tier 5 predecessor.

 

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IMO, thanks to the BB AP changes, The entire Brit cruiser line feel like a real nerf compared to before the last patch. At least for the new players, new to the Brit Cruiser line, are not going to like the change.

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USN BBs:  Some don't like the transition from NC->Iowa.  Not saying Iowa is bad these days, but she plays very differently from NC and even Montana.  Outside this, there isn't really a tier progression -> downgrade feeling ship in this line.

 

IJN BBs: The traditional answer here is Izumo, but people still talk about how she was, not how she currently is.  She has a bad reputation still, but has received many critical buffs in recent months.  But nobody that grinded past her and got Yamato is willing to go back to her and give her a try since her buffs.  Other than that, IJN BBs don't really have a bad "downgrade" feeling ship anymore.  Izumo got heavily buffed.

 

German BBs:  VII Gneisenau's gunnery is a downgrade in reliability from what one experienced in Konig and Bayern.  For many these days, despite FDG accessing 406mm / 420mm guns, they feel like they've gotten nowhere with FDG.

 

RN BBs:  I want to say Monarch just by looking at her stats, but I will admit that I never gave her a fair shake.  I went to Conqueror on Day 1 when this Line went Live.  Queen Elizabeth is a heavily nerfed Warspite and compared to what Iron Dukes were doing in Tier V, a downgrade.

 

French BBs:  Like USN BBs, there isn't a real progression "downgrade" ship.  Matter of fact, the line gets better as you climb the tiers.

 

IJN Cruisers:  Traditionally, Ibuki at Tier IX is the answer, but she has received the blanket IJN CA 203mm "Zao" buffs as well as reload buff.  She doesn't deserve the "downgrade" status anymore but it may take some time for her Pre-Buff reputation to clear out.

 

USN Cruisers:  LOL!  EASY!  Buffalo and Seattle!  NExxxttt!

 

RU Cruisers:  Schors, Dmitri Donskoi.  I had a fabulous time with Schors, but if one didn't learn the RU Cruiser Lesson of "Long Range or Die" then you will get spanked HARD on Schors.  Keep her at range and she's OPAF, but not many players grinding this line initially will realize that.  Dmitri Donskoi was an uncomfortable ship to play.  BB concealment and no good armor of any sort.

 

German Cruisers:  Traditional answer here is Yorck, but she got some buffs recently and I'm not sure she deserves that reputation anymore.

 

RN CLs:  I want to say Emerald, but when I thought about it, Danae in Tier IV is garbage a.f. also.  So technically, it's hard to call Emerald a tier progression "downgrade" at Tier V when the Tier IV ship is just as bad as her.  Tier IV-V is incidentally where the RN CL line is at its weakest.  The rest is good to go.

 

French Cruisers:  I can't really say.  This is a fairly decent Cruiser Line going up.  There wasn't one that I felt, "I need FreeXP to get the f--k out of this bote."

 

IJN CVs:  In today's game, Zuiho in Tier V.  Which is unfortunate.  For years she was extremely powerful for Tier V, but the USN CV Revamp turned Bogue from "Chump" to "OPAF."  There's no question Zuiho can nuke people still, but Bogue's fighter unit can almost deplane Zuiho before needing to reload the first time.  Outside Zuiho, this line is ROCK SOLID.

 

USN CVs:  This is still, even after the USN CV Revamp from a while back, one of the worst overall lines in the game.  The line is full of "downgrade" ships from Tier VI thru IX.  In that group, you have two of the worst performing ships in this game, Ranger and Lexington.

Spoiler

pmwEiKQ.jpg

Take Midway in this list of WR% bottom feeders with a grain of salt.  She was nerfed hard shortly after launch and had been a POS bote for years until the USN CV Revamp made her a monster.  Anyways, Lexington and Ranger are some of the worst things to have on your team.  Since the USN CV Revamp, Lexington has been embarrassed in Tier VIII Ranked about 3 seasons already.  She cannot compete in the face of Enterprise, Graf Zeppelin, Shokaku.

 

 

Edited by HazeGrayUnderway
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North Carolina after Colorado. Going from laser-accurate, tough as a brick to the glass shotgun was painful in every sense of the word.

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Gearing - not bad but fletcher is more fun

izumo - nuf said

yy - especially after nerf 

henry - Nowhere near  as fun as it’s predecessor 

roon - not that it was bad just that I liked the Hipper more

Edited by thebigblue

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Cleveland (T8). Helena is great, vicious broadside, good AA, and can take a better beating. Cleveland isn't bad, but IMO the Helena is a better ship tier for tier. Cleveland really struggles to survive in T10. 

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Khabarovsk.  After receiving numerous buffs and benefiting greatly from the DD AP changes I think the Tashkent is fundamentally the better overall ship, *and not just relative for Tier.

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