Project "Fuhrer"

[Wunderwaffen1945]

German super battleship project named "Fuhrer" class

 

These ships are the various ever-enlarging "H-Class" ships that Hitler wanted as part of his "Z-Plan". Hitler loved big, armored things with huge guns, and thought capital ships gave prestige to a country's military, but he hated the sea and was easily seasick. The plans were awesome but many considered them fool hardy, but no one wanted to tell this to Hitler. He wanted the biggest battleship in the world and indeed the design was drawn up for this monster. It was to displace 122,000 tons, have eight 21 inch guns and travel at about 30 knots. The problem was that this ship would have been almost twice the size of the Yamato and no docking facility was big enough for it. It would also be very hard to maneuver. Worst of all was the fact that the steel it needed for its construction would have meant that nothing else could have been built during its construction. As the war neared its end, Hitler finally gave up on its construction.

Here on the picture are compared Der Fuhrer and Bismarck

 

 

 

Displacement: (700,000 tons planned) 462,750 tons light; 484,920 tons standard; 560,057 tons normal service; 617,927 tons full load

 

Dimensions:

Length: 2,000’ (609.60m)

Beam: 300’ (91.44m)

Draft: 55’ (16.75m)

 

Armament:

Main: 8 – 31.5” (80cm) Gustav siege guns (4 x 2)

Secondary: 12 – 9.45”/73 (24cm) Long Range AA guns (12 x 1)

Tertiary: 24 – 5.04”/60 (12.8cm) AA guns (12 x 2)

Light: 5.5cm/77 Gerat 58, 30mm AA guns

(Broadside = 131,574 lbs/59,631 kg)

Aircraft: 15 aircraft

 

Armor:

Belt: 14.96” (380mm) Deck: 14.96” (380mm)

Turrets: 25.96” (660mm) Conning tower: 24.8” (630mm)

 

Machinery: 8 shafts, (480,000 shp planned) 498,735 shp/372,057 kw

Performance: 28 knots; Range: 30,000 nm @ 20 knots

Complement: (5,000 planned) 10,236 – 13,307

 

Distribution of weights:

Armament: 16,425 tons = 2.9%

Armor: 158,660 tons = 28.3%

Machinery: 11,931 tons = 2.1%

Hull, fittings & equipment: 274,955 tons = 49.1%

Fuel, ammunition & stores: 97,307 tons = 17.4%

Miscellaneous weights: 750 tons = 0.1%

 

This is a 700,000 ton German battleship built to carry a battery of eight 80 cm/31.5 guns, the siege gun Gustav. This is strictly a flight of fancy taken from remarks made by Hitler that he wanted to mount 80 cm guns on the H-class. It was estimated that it would take a 700,000 ton ship to mount them.

Rate of fire for the main battery would be quite slow, one round per gun every five minutes or more while the AA defense would be much more rapid. The AP shell weighed over 15,000 lbs with 441 lbs of burster while the HC shell weighed over 10,000 lbs with 882 lbs of burster.

The 24 cm/73 AA armament was based upon a Kriegsmarine late war study to develop a land based high altitude gun firing a 300 plus pound shell up to 59,000 feet. It is possible that a 700,000 ton ship could carry twelve of these in single double purpose mounts, partly to make up for the slow rate of fire of the 80cm main battery and to engage cruisers.

The 5"/60 were probably Germany's best AA weapon at the end of the war and would have served this mastodon well.

There is no detail information regarding the ship’s power plant. The total SHP required for a ship of this size dictated at least 8 shafts. Based on the extended range of these ships it would appear that a portion of the power plant was diesel.

Eventhough Schwere Gustav and Dora had caliber lengths of 40 calibers.

The Fuhrer uses the naval standard 52cal 800mm guns.

 

 

Image edited to remove swastikas. Please remember that swastikas are prohibited in our forums.

~Jewel_Thief

[sgtpepper500]

Oh man if only these things were built. Would take forever to walk though one of those >.>. Now these ships would be oped going around one shotting everyone else.

[JeeWeeJ]

Somehow i highly doubt this is real. Do you have any sources? (because my google search wont go any further than a deviantart page, which is dubious at best as far as sources go)

[Wunderwaffen1945]

That was one of the Hitlers "wunderwaffen" plans which were never build

[_Jeremiah_Gottwald]

New tier 10 ship right here! Or a beta gift maybe?

[JeeWeeJ]

Wunderwaffen1945, on 04 January 2013 - 02:27 PM, said:

That was one of the Hitlers "wunderwaffen" plans which were never build

Even so, there must be a notion of it somewhere...and i can't find any. Even the nazi's X-ray gun is mentioned on multiple sites...but i can't find anything on this except deviantart or references to it.
So i remain highly sceptical, especially as the H44 was already considered a mad/unrealistic design by the Germans.

[EDIT]Forgot to say: thanks for sharing! :Smile_great: [/EDIT]

[Jager_Panther1]

ok i will say that i do have that in common with Hitler, i love big armored things with huge guns...

[sgtpepper500]

JeeWeeJ, on 04 January 2013 - 02:45 PM, said:

Even so, there must be a notion of it somewhere...and i can't find any. Even the nazi's X-ray gun is mentioned on multiple sites...but i can't find anything on this except deviantart or references to it.
So i remain highly sceptical, especially as the H44 was already considered a mad/unrealistic design by the Germans.

[EDIT]Forgot to say: thanks for sharing! :Smile_great: [/EDIT]

Huh, well I found a website with my first search. Not sure how credible it is, but at least it isn't a wikipedia article

http://www.combinedf...ta/fuhrer_f.htm

And another. There are actually quite a bit when I search with google chrome

http://aboutfacts.net/Weapons23.htm

Were you saying you doubted that this idea was ever really conidered? Perhaps I am misunderstanding you.

[JeeWeeJ]

No, i actually doubt this design ever existed. 700k tonnes? Thats just insane!

Also, that combinedfleet link you provided is from the fanfiction section of that site. It also mentions a dutch hybrid-CV which, to my knowldge, has never been considered nor designed. The other site goes from a H39-ish design straight to a H44++ design on which i can find no specs on better known sites. Maybe Skygunner can help out here with his vast library of books on ships?

 

Also, the German navy had the tradition not to give names to ships until they were launched...so i wonder why they'd break that tradition for this one.

 

But, as usual, please prove me wrong! :)

[Capcon]

There was no place in Germany that a 2000' long ship could have been built.

 

There seem to be a number of wild German designs that could never have been built given the realities of pre-war and wartime conditions. However, designing these things kept the designers employed and not "sent to ze Russian Front" as they used to say on hogan's Heroes.

[SSGael]

the beast of the North Sea :Smile_izmena:

[sgtpepper500]

JeeWeeJ, on 04 January 2013 - 03:52 PM, said:

No, i actually doubt this design ever existed. 700k tonnes? Thats just insane!
Also, that combinedfleet link you provided is from the fanfiction section of that site. It also mentions a dutch hybrid-CV which, to my knowldge, has never been considered nor designed. The other site goes from a H39-ish design straight to a H44++ design on which i can find no specs on better known sites. Maybe Skygunner can help out here with his vast library of books on ships?

Also, the German navy had the tradition not to give names to ships until they were launched...so i wonder why they'd break that tradition for this one.

But, as usual, please prove me wrong! :)

I have no intent on doing that, I just was a little confused why you said you couldn't find any sites besides a deviant art one.

In the past when I have had an in depth debate with people on this forum they either ignored my points or flat out didn't respond. Not that I am saying you would do that, but I have decided to only debate/ do in depth research on stuff I care about because of that.

[Skygunner]

The largest German battleship ever conceived is H-44.   No documentation ever exists of anything bigger.  At least not in history.

 

What this design is,  is  a modern day error about why you should fact check.  A few years ago,  the book "H****rs Secret Weapons" was published,   it contained a butt load of information about German secret weapons of WWII.  Included in on it was plans for the so called "H-45" class battleships.  Also a few years ago, on a project warships forum I frequent that uses spring style,  among other things,  they decided to make their own ship up,  to see what it would look like to have an H-Class battleship armed with the largest gun german produced,  Aka the Gustav.

 

The people on the forum are all insane like myself in the sense that they roll around in these paper designs,   so they made a mock up of what the ship would look like,  keeping in mind German naval design practices.  So it's all very logical in appearance and layout.    If  you didn't take the time to read what the forum had to say about it,   or if there was a few errors in where its original topic was posted (since been moved to the fan made ship section), it's very easy to mistaken it for a real design.  But it's not.

[Capcon]

The real tip off as to the design's lack of a basis in reality is the depth. 55 feet. It could have gone exactly nowhere drawing that much water. The approaches to German shipyards and harbor facilities could not be used by such a ship.

 

55 feet of water, pffft. I officially declare it. A FAKE.

[Masterrix]

funny ship, looks like Tier 20

[Wunderwaffen1945]

If they have putted Maus in WoW, they can put this in WoWS

[Capcon]

Wunderwaffen1945, on 04 January 2013 - 07:42 PM, said:

If they have putted Maus in WoW, they can put this in WoWS

Maus was real they have one in the Kublinka Tank Museum.

http://www.tankmuseu...ages/pav6-9.jpg

The ship  design above is clearly not in any meaningful way practical or build-able.

[Crag_r]

JeeWeeJ, on 04 January 2013 - 02:25 PM, said:

Somehow i highly doubt this is real. Do you have any sources? (because my google search wont go any further than a deviantart page, which is dubious at best as far as sources go)

The smaller of the two is a H-44 i was reading somewhere that Hitler wanted one of the H-44's to bear the name Bismark after its loss, the other H-44 named after himself.

[Masterrix]

Wunderwaffen1945, on 04 January 2013 - 07:42 PM, said:

If they have putted Maus in WoW, they can put this in WoWS

adding this ship to WoWS would be like adding "The Rat" to WoT . . .


http://www.vincelewi...mages28/rat.jpg

http://www.vincelewi...uzer-bigpic.jpg

[Crag_r]

Masterrix, on 04 January 2013 - 09:00 PM, said:

adding this ship to WoWS would be like adding "The Rat" to WoT . . .


http://www.vincelewi...mages28/rat.jpg

http://www.vincelewi...uzer-bigpic.jpg

Rat could work, after all it did use Naval guns...

[Super_Dreadnought]

Edit out the swastikas. Mods don't like swastikas I beleive.

[Iceman42]

http://en.wikipedia....eship_proposals

 

http://www.german-na...fh/history.html

 

http://www.kbismarck...php?f=14&t=4035

 

http://www.navweaps....16-52_skc34.htm

 

http://www.navweaps....-52_gerat36.htm

[Skygunner]

Just in case it wasn't clear.  This is not a true design.  

 

It was not created as a hoax or with desire to harm history,   a publisher found the design on a project warships forum,  didn't' read it in full and thought it was real.  The forums had a pretty good laugh when they saw it.  Again, the largest german battleship design was H-44,  however it was only a study and had no intent of ever being built  H-42 is usually considered to be the largest "plausible"  design.

[Wunderwaffen1945]

Capcon, on 04 January 2013 - 08:27 PM, said:

Maus was real they have one in the Kublinka Tank Museum.

http://www.tankmuseu...ages/pav6-9.jpg

The ship  design above is clearly not in any meaningful way practical or build-able.

yes, i know that they have built 2 tanks

[JeeWeeJ]

sgtpepper500, on 04 January 2013 - 04:32 PM, said:

I have no intent on doing that, I just was a little confused why you said you couldn't find any sites besides a deviant art one.

In the past when I have had an in depth debate with people on this forum they either ignored my points or flat out didn't respond. Not that I am saying you would do that, but I have decided to only debate/ do in depth research on stuff I care about because of that.

My apologies for the somewhat blunt replies i made, did them on my smartphone and each time i went to another tab to check your links all the text i wrote was deleted...so was a bit annoyed at having to retype it three times.
What i meant to say was: i couldn't find any links on google that looked genuine (as in: not referring to that deviantart picture) OR looking at least a bit trustworthy like navypedia or wikipedia. Sorry for not saying that more clearly.

And like i said before, i really don't mind being proven wrong (being wrong means you can learn something new), but when things go insane (design wise) i really like to see some proper sources before i accept the info in front of me. :Smile_smile: