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Legio_X_

Now i know why people hate CVs

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3 hours ago, KnightFandragon said:

But players can keep thinking unlimited, 4-5 strikes per squadron is a good idea...


The CV rework will be a joke that does more to hurt the game then help it.

You obviously haven't played it, unlimited strikes that if you know what your rudder is, you can dodge them with ease. (I just watched an Amagi do 90 degree turns while I was making my torp run to evade them, (cruisers are almost completely immune to CV's, only way they bite it is if they run aground.)

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2 hours ago, 1nv4d3rZ1m said:

Not sure what killing a cruiser two tiers lower has to do with the discussion...

It's an old pic that I use to make the point that BBs deleting cruisers is common enough that no one bats an eye. Where as some players feel the need to jump on the forums and rant about a CV doing it.

You can't really be pro one and not the other. Well without being a hypocrite.

Also there is so much to hate in that pic. A radar cruiser is supporting a cap mostly behind an island. Spotted by a enemy DD and gets deleted 3 minutes into the game. By a BB that was stealthed and only gave 8-10 seconds warning if the target had the incoming fire skill. 

Also it's old enough that it's a t8 NO, lol.😋

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2 hours ago, Cruxdei said:

"hahaha my 100 AA ship with manual AA can just eat planes everytime"

*blob together the planes and cross drop*

*dev strike*

i like you haze,but sorry, i had to post it.

 

That never happens to my AA ships.  If one is sailing something like Tirpitz, Musashi, sure, but even my AA BBs don't get swamped like that.  That's a fact :Smile_glasses:

 

There's the guys that are sh*t themselves the moment they see any aircraft in the sky.  The water around them turns from blue to brown.  Then there's the guys like me who shoot them down, farming these planes.

I ***WANT*** more CVs in the game.

I ***WILL*** shoot their planes down.

Edited by HazeGrayUnderway
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2 hours ago, StoneRhino said:

3E8PHYm.jpg

First, based on the direction of the camera and max range. That old New Orleans made a misplay in position. There is no reason he should even be over there with so little support with the green team in such a presence at AB.
Second, there is no green team ships that could be spotting that New Orleans, meaning he got greedy and opened fire when he shouldn't have. Another misplay. Battleships get dev strikes when people make misplays. Nuking fragile ships happens when they make misplays. CVs don't have to punish misplays to get kills they simply have to just decide that they want you to die. You can spec and attempt to counterplay them all you want. But it remains that AA defense is near nonexistant at tier 5 and mid tier CVs have full reign to do as they please.

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4 minutes ago, Lethal_Discharge said:

*snip*

For what it's worth normally I'd question the look of the minimap there, but then I looked into it and he got the Izzy on Jan 15th of 2018 so it's 'relatively' current.

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1. Kongo has no AA. You needed AA escort in a CV battle. Not go out alone.

2. An overwhelming majority that don't play rts, are looking forward to the CV rework. RTS players don't want the change, because cvs, currently, completely dictate the outcome of the battle. Other ships in a CV game are just hurdles to out performing the other cv. When an entire match is dictated by two players out of 20+, where all the other players can't influence the match, except to play defense, and hope your friendly CV is better than the enemy, means there is a major class imbalance that needs to be addressed because it is severely broken that doesn't allow 90% of the players to influence the outcome of the match. The newer, "damage over time" model, versus the "alpha strike" potential, and that it's a new game/arcade style, means you won't be getting insta deaths like you used to... "All" the CV players that are leaving because they can no longer take advantage of a game exploit, will probably end up being good for the game. The issues currently being brought up, are easy to work with. The CV rework will likely continue to get love and upgrades over time after it's release. This coming release is a rush job that the community has been begging for for years. The fact that cvs aren't allowed in clan battles should speak loudly that wargaming sees it as a problem... 

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5 hours ago, Thanos_Snap_ said:

First, based on the direction of the camera and max range. That old New Orleans made a misplay in position. There is no reason he should even be over there with so little support with the green team in such a presence at AB.
Second, there is no green team ships that could be spotting that New Orleans, meaning he got greedy and opened fire when he shouldn't have. Another misplay. Battleships get dev strikes when people make misplays. Nuking fragile ships happens when they make misplays. CVs don't have to punish misplays to get kills they simply have to just decide that they want you to die. You can spec and attempt to counterplay them all you want. But it remains that AA defense is near nonexistant at tier 5 and mid tier CVs have full reign to do as they please.

First: sorry the text covered up the DD at A. 

fIpVrsv.jpg

Second: you are assuming my team are all detected. I was stealthed until the shot was taken. That means the cruisers north of me are 15k minimum away or an island is blocking them. I would guess that the cruiser and BB just north of me are also undetected because of Izumo's bad concealment. The BB north east of me is blocked by the island.

So from the red team's perspective there looks to be strong push to B and the solo cruiser pushing B-C might suggest a few ships are going C but as of yet undetected and a solo DD at A that might suggest a few ships headed to A as well, given the map a high chance of support to A.

Looking at the NO's position he is taking cover from the spotted ships on the G row. A little forward of ideal, most likely because he's trying to keep the DD radared to finish off 50% of the enemy's DDs before support arrives.

Great gameplay no but not bad either given what Intel he had.

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7 hours ago, Taichunger said:

Of course I can do better. Countless times I've said how they should be implemented: you give CVs their own Random mode (can be Classic or New CV Lite), or you delete them altogether as the complete waste of server and dev resources that they are. There is no need for them in Randoms and the playerbase does not want them there. We play most Random matches w/o them, and the forum is not filled with posts demanding more CVs. 

I just said all that again above and am well known for making these arguments. Not surprised that you missed it in your eagerness to post a brainless meme.
 

1: Then why are you here instead of writing the lines of code needed to make your own game? So long as you're still here, you're still whining.

2: You say "the playerbase does not want them there", and yet I'm certain that I am not the only person who doesn't have a problem with playing against CVs. Any obstacle in the game can be overcome through proper application of player skill. Once you realize that, you'll also see that the status quo becomes something that you can live with. If you die to a CV, then you go over what you did wrong, you strive not to do it again, and you click the Battle button to go onto the next match. It's that simple.

In conclusion, unless you are actively contributing to making things better, I suggest you take some advice from the Eagles and get over it.

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6 minutes ago, 1Sherman said:

1: Then why are you here instead of writing the lines of code needed to make your own game? So long as you're still here, you're still whining.

2: You say "the playerbase does not want them there", and yet I'm certain that I am not the only person who doesn't have a problem with playing against CVs. Any obstacle in the game can be overcome through proper application of player skill. Once you realize that, you'll also see that the status quo becomes something that you can live with. If you die to a CV, then you go over what you did wrong, you strive not to do it again, and you click the Battle button to go onto the next match. It's that simple.

In conclusion, unless you are actively contributing to making things better, I suggest you take some advice from the Eagles and get over it.

With people like you making every excuse in the book for CVs it’s surprising that anything is happening. I’ve been in the situation that the OP describes where a BB at the beginning of the game spawns to far from friendly AA and dies to the CV without ever seeing any enemy ships. Is it too hard to achnowlege that there are issues and people do get into frustrating situations that they can’t change the outcome of?

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10 minutes ago, 1nv4d3rZ1m said:

With people like you making every excuse in the book for CVs it’s surprising that anything is happening. I’ve been in the situation that the OP describes where a BB at the beginning of the game spawns to far from friendly AA and dies to the CV without ever seeing any enemy ships. Is it too hard to achnowlege that there are issues and people do get into frustrating situations that they can’t change the outcome of?

The issue is more that this type of thing happens to all ship classes.

For every BB that gets thrown to the CV wolves. There is nother where the AA is op that the CV is a spectator, or DD in that 5 radar game ECT

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3 minutes ago, StoneRhino said:

The issue is more that this type of thing happens to all ship classes.

For every BB that gets thrown to the CV wolves. There is nother where the AA is op that the CV is a spectator, or DD in that 5 radar game ECT

Well at least you can admit that this happens and people get f***ed by bad situations in this game. Thats more than the guy I was responding to.

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The whole point of my fustration is that the game just started, i wasnt even out of our base yet, and i was instantly deleted with no way to fight back.

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2 minutes ago, StoneRhino said:

The issue is more that this type of thing happens to all ship classes.

For every BB that gets thrown to the CV wolves. There is nother where the AA is op that the CV is a spectator, or DD in that 5 radar game ECT

Yes, but the CV can choose to avoid the AA, or the DD can bait radar, spot.

A low AA BB starting alone pretty much has this option

Image result for Last Starfighter We Die

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19 minutes ago, 1nv4d3rZ1m said:

With people like you making every excuse in the book for CVs it’s surprising that anything is happening. I’ve been in the situation that the OP describes where a BB at the beginning of the game spawns to far from friendly AA and dies to the CV without ever seeing any enemy ships. Is it too hard to achnowlege that there are issues and people do get into frustrating situations that they can’t change the outcome of?

No it isn't. Why? Because there is no situation that you can't change the outcome of. Saying "there's nothing I could have done" is indicative of defeatism and blame-shifting, both of which will not improve your overall performance in the game.

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Just now, 1Sherman said:

No it isn't. Why? Because there is no situation that you can't change the outcome of. Saying "there's nothing I could have done" is indicative of a defeatism and blame-shifting, both of which will not improve your overall performance in the game.

And which of us performs better at the game? One thing about getting better is recognizing that no matter how good you play there are situations you cant win without the enemy making mistakes. That is exactly the situation that the OP was in.

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Pretty sure this is why people hate CVs:

midways.png.4b79447ca873305a059ed6303d969eb5.png

Red team had a somewhat stronger group of players overall, except in the carrier department.  Didn't matter.  Green utterly dominated.

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11 hours ago, 1Sherman said:

I've out-maneuvered planes in a North Carolina before, a ship with a truly awful turning radius and AA guns that get destroyed very easily. If I can do that, then you can outmaneuver planes in a Kongo.

[edited], it all depends on the enemy CV.

I've dodge repeated strikes in a BB, because the enemy CV was horrible, but literally nobody is going to dodge the Super Unicum CV players.

You might dodge the first two cross drops, and I've dodge the first two cross drops from every Super Unicum CV player in the game, but you WON'T dodge the third strike. That's because they are so good that the only way to dodge the first strike is to bleed off speed, and the CV player uses that reduced speed to destroy you.

Even AA Speced Des Moines get one shot at Tier X buy the best of the CV players.

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12 hours ago, Legio_X_ said:

Not even 1 min into match, I'm sailing out of base in a Kongo. I see two torp squads coming (i get singled out). I sail into their flight path, but he just turns other way. My slow a$$ can't keep up. He double strikes me and I'm dead. Less than 1 minute in game and i wasnt even out of base circle yet. Now i know why people hate them so much. 

I hardly get pissed off, but man that made my blood pressure raise some. 

I have no doubt this occurred however I question the time of the event.  Under one minute to both launch and gather up two torpedo squadrons then coordinate a manual cross drop, seems a bit off.

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11 hours ago, Snargfargle said:

This is exactly the problem but one that's inherent to random teams of uncoordinated players. In WII surface warships rarely ventured out alone and even then it was usually in areas where there was no air support, like in the South Atlantic with the early-war commerce raiders. If teams would stay in coordinated formations air strikes would be much less of a problem. Yesterday I downed 29 planes with my BB in formation with another BB.

You can lead the horses to water huh?

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22 minutes ago, Legio_X_ said:

The whole point of my fustration is that the game just started, i wasnt even out of our base yet, and i was instantly deleted with no way to fight back.

For You

Image result for tissues

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12 hours ago, Estimated_Prophet said:

Many players over the last 2-3 years called out the OP nature of what sounds like an IJN carrier’s ability to use two torpedo squads; as well as the broken nature of point-blank manual attack murder drops.

They were ignored; and ‘solutions’ offered over the same period only made things worse.

Such a track record is a source of distrust. To say there are players watching the rework with jaded eyes is to understate, at the very least.

Cutting down the number of TB squadrons especially at higher tiers, and eliminating the narrow-cone spread for manual drops, have been way up my list of actual fixes for CVs for a long time.

Instead, we got a proliferation of funky drop patterns with the various premium carriers, and the elimination of USN AS builds which used to at least offer the opportunity to thin out the TB spam coming from the opponents, IJN opponents in particular.

 

 

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46 minutes ago, StoneRhino said:

The issue is more that this type of thing happens to all ship classes.

For every BB that gets thrown to the CV wolves. There is nother where the AA is op that the CV is a spectator, or DD in that 5 radar game ECT

I've had it where an Atlanta and Schors had a good position spamming my Alabama, taking a lot of damage off.  The CV smartly waits until their work was done, until I was down to my last 25% of HP.  But I still shredded every single one of the CV's aircraft, including the fighters he tried to send to distract my AA.  I just killed the TBs - > DBs first, and the Fighters were desserts.  So much for HE spam destroying my AA, right? 

jmG5Y1M.gif

There was another memorable game where a Shokaku tried to swamp my Alabama's AA, but I shredded every single one of her planes.  The guy asked me later in the match if I had Manual AA.  "I've attacked Alabamas before, I never get shredded like that." 

"That's because those potatoes didn't AA spec their possibly high AA BB" is what I thought.

I told him I simply had AAGM2 with BFT + AFT and this time the AA signal flag for a little bit extra DPS.

A while back, Aerroon had a WiP video when he was testing Graf Zeppelin, back in the old, pre-release 15 TB spec she had.  He specifically mentioned a North Carolina he knew didn't have an AA spec, so he nuked it.

:Smile_glasses::Smile_veryhappy:

Meanwhile you got Tier VIII BBs looking at a Tier VI CV and raging about their presence! :Smile_popcorn:

1235.jpg

 

I can appreciate if the bote doesn't even have good AA capability to spec into, and it'd still be bad.  However, there are lots of good AA ships out there that their players refuse to spec into AA.  That's fine.  Just don't come whining onto the boards if a potential strength against something they complain every day, every week about nukes them because they continue to refuse and protect themselves against that threat.

 

When I see something like a North Carolina, Iowa, Montana get insta-nuked by a CV, I shake my head.  They deserved it.  They could have had AA that something like Tirpitz, Musashi owners would have dreamed to have, instead opt for something like a "Survival Build" that doesn't help them "survive" air attacks.

"Survival Builds" help against DOT effects of Floods, Fires, but it doesn't help you "survive" alpha strike damage.

They get what's coming to them.

 

I also have a buddy that doesn't AA spec his Des Moines.  Instead he relies on DM's AA reputation to scare off CVs.  I told him that not all those CVs are dumb idiots and how people can check ingame their AA ratings.  I told him I can tell from the ingame Team Roster while the match is loading that he doesn't have the AA.  A decent CV will catch that and find him, delete his DM.  It's happened a few times already.  The funny part is he's a Unicum player, but refuses to acknowledge a clear danger to the ship that could easily be removed by AA Spec, especially a ship with the AA suite of Des Moines.

 

It's funny, when we get a CV match, I love it when there's a CV for my DM, but he starts ranting immediately about them :Smile_teethhappy:

Edited by HazeGrayUnderway

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21 minutes ago, 1nv4d3rZ1m said:

Well at least you can admit that this happens and people get f***ed by bad situations in this game. Thats more than the guy I was responding to.

Of course bad things happen, lol. It more being able to laugh it off.

Sometimes the hammer, sometimes the nail.

19 minutes ago, DrHolmes52 said:

Yes, but the CV can choose to avoid the AA, or the DD can bait radar, spot.

A low AA BB starting alone pretty much has this option

Image result for Last Starfighter We Die

My most played line is IJN BBs. Not exactly known for their AA. Have you ever been in a no AA buffs Izumo being focused by a Midway?

Kongo is my second most played ship and back when I played her, low tier manual drops where a thing. If I died in single pass from a CV I would blame myself not the CV. And that was before I even played CVs.

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11 hours ago, 1Sherman said:

If you think you can do better, then I implore you to do so. Come up with your own game in the same vein as this one and show everyone how CVs should be implemented in your mind. Otherwise, you're addressing a problem without also presenting a solution, and there's a very nice Teddy Roosevelt quote that tells you what the definition of that is.

Actually, he did imply a solution. Keep everything else the same and remove CVs.

OWSF was removed by WG for all ships except CVs. It is their primary attack mode. They get to attack other ships while in complete safety. No need to find some island to hide behind. The only difference is the target ships might be able to blunt the attack if you have good AA. Targets can't just move out of range like you could with an OWSF or an island humping ship.  Targets can't hide behind an island to seek a reprieve.

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