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needlenoses4

leaning to spot

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Ok, I am trying to actually do some damage with DDs it various tiers; getting torpedo hits is a problem for me ( will get there ) but other players are asking me to SPOT.  I have been through a lot of the mechanics of the spotting system but have not yet found a good article of video on the topic of applying it in battle.  There must be a way of telling the team where a ship is hanging out within MY RANGE.  Question is what do I do.  Might sound stupid but I have just never learned it.  Help please as I want to be of help in battle.

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Just know your detection range. Go out in front and once ships are spotted don't get closer than your detection range to them. Those ships will appear to your team and maybe they will shoot at the red ships.

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28 minutes ago, needlenoses4 said:

Ok, I am trying to actually do some damage with DDs it various tiers; getting torpedo hits is a problem for me ( will get there ) but other players are asking me to SPOT.  I have been through a lot of the mechanics of the spotting system but have not yet found a good article of video on the topic of applying it in battle.  There must be a way of telling the team where a ship is hanging out within MY RANGE.  Question is what do I do.  Might sound stupid but I have just never learned it.  Help please as I want to be of help in battle.

Use control then left click on the minimap where you want to call attention to. USE the RPF captain skill if you are not already so you can use it to find ships you cannot yet see.

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42 minutes ago, needlenoses4 said:

Ok, I am trying to actually do some damage with DDs it various tiers; getting torpedo hits is a problem for me ( will get there ) but other players are asking me to SPOT.  I have been through a lot of the mechanics of the spotting system but have not yet found a good article of video on the topic of applying it in battle.  There must be a way of telling the team where a ship is hanging out within MY RANGE.  Question is what do I do.  Might sound stupid but I have just never learned it.  Help please as I want to be of help in battle.

Basically what people are asking you to do is to be out in front of your team, using your concealment to help spot the enemy team.  As a DD, you are best equipped to perform this function undetected.  This gives your team tons of info as well as giving them targets to pick from and shoot at.  As previously mentioned, be aware of your concealment.  In game, above your mini-map, you will have a gear icon.  Click on that to bring up several options.  Probably the most important one would be to show your detection range on the mini-map.  That way you can see how close you are getting to the enemy and hopefully avoid being spotted.

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Well, you know how different ships have different concealment ranges, right? Your team is basically asking you to push forward and 'detect' ships by pushing into their concealment range while you yourself are still outside their's. This is often so a team can spot the enemy team before said enemy team spots them. The reason this is important is that the enemy team doesn't know your team's position and can't yet angle against that attack, so that first salvo is critical. Spotting is also important for keeping fleeing ships spotted before they can escape and heal back up (in some cases).

Also note that islands block line of sight, so sometimes, it's important to sail beyond those islands to see the ships behind it. Although be careful here as sometimes you yourself could round the island and get spotted by hidden ships that are much closer than anticipated.

As a general rule, all ships do damage, but all ships also provide some level of team support. In the case of DDs, that support comes in the form of capping and spotting.

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I am probably one of the guys asking DDs to spot...the function is so very important, its like a GOOD CV player who gets his planes out early to all cap areas and spots the bad guys...not the CV player pooling up his planes for a CV snipe, which of course hasn't even got to the target before his team has lost 2-3 ships and it fails of course.  Some DDs should spot, the gunships the anti DD, DDs and low detect Japanese DDs.... some DDs like the Khab or Tash I don't get upset if they borderline spot, as they are likely to get spotted first and shot  up...   DD players that don't at least get close to the cap or island hide or worse are going to to cost their team the game a much higher percentage of time than not.  Spot and not be spotted, that is the real game play now isn't it?

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50 minutes ago, Morpheous said:

some DDs like the Khab or Tash I don't get upset if they borderline spot, as they are likely to get spotted first and shot  up...   DD players that don't at least get close to the cap or island hide or worse are going to to cost their team the game a much higher percentage of time than not.  Spot and not be spotted, that is the real game play now isn't it?

 Just start a gunfight with the first thing you see. Everything red will usually open up, spotting accomplished. ;)

 

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When my Kiev in all its 8.7km detection went past 100k spotting damage...I was pretty much keeping the team's island huggers functioning on my flank with me braving tier 10 shells and retaliating with my own guns, I was barely alive when the fighting died down.

You are pretty much sailing into the fog of war. As a DD (well, not the USSR gunboats) you tend to outspot everything. In high tier, remembering radar range so you can safely spot and plan a getaway.

The only problem is...lots of team fail to capitalize on your spotting...........:Smile_sceptic:

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In general (and sometimes very situational), it's the idea that a DD can push forward and begin to spot BBs and CAs for the team.  

It gets situational in the following (not an exhaustive list):

1.  Many radar CAs have radar just under their detection range.  If you spot one of these, they will often pop radar...spotting YOU!!!

2.  If enemy DDs have better conceal, and they are also out front spotting, then they will spot YOU before you spot them.

3.  If you have better conceal than enemy DDs, then you will also spot the enemy DDs before they spot you...however, the margins are often small...and they will know the range bin...so play accordingly.

4  Terrain (often a DD's friend) makes spotting difficult (good for you...bad for spotting the enemy).

5.  Keep in mind, when you spot an enemy (in open water) they know the range bin YOU are in and will often communicate that to their team.  Sometimes, they will even know the box you're in.

6.  Know the detect range of ships firing from smoke.  Sometimes, you can sneak up on smoked HE spammers (particularly cruisers) and detect them for the team while you remain undetected.

 

 

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31 minutes ago, pyantoryng said:

The only problem is...lots of team fail to capitalize on your spotting...........:Smile_sceptic:

This. Enemy DD and I spot each other in cap. Enemy team opens up with everything they've got. I die or at best, take massive damage and get away. Enemy DD takes very little damage. I get scolded for "being too aggressive", when the enemy DD and I did virtually the same thing.

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3 hours ago, HashtagYoloSwagChamp said:

He only has 400ish DD battles though.

The spotting mechanics don't change per ship class. It's still your detection range vs their detection range.

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32 minutes ago, Soshi_Sone said:

In general (and sometimes very situational), it's the idea that a DD can push forward and begin to spot BBs and CAs for the team.  

It gets situational in the following (not an exhaustive list):

1.  Many radar CAs have radar just under their detection range.  If you spot one of these, they will often pop radar...spotting YOU!!!

2.  If enemy DDs have better conceal, and they are also out front spotting, then they will spot YOU before you spot them.

3.  If you have better conceal than enemy DDs, then you will also spot the enemy DDs before they spot you...however, the margins are often small...and they will know the range bin...so play accordingly.

4  Terrain (often a DD's friend) makes spotting difficult (good for you...bad for spotting the enemy).

5.  Keep in mind, when you spot an enemy (in open water) they know the range bin YOU are in and will often communicate that to their team.  Sometimes, they will even know the box you're in.

6.  Know the detect range of ships firing from smoke.  Sometimes, you can sneak up on smoked HE spammers (particularly cruisers) and detect them for the team while you remain undetected.

 

 

This. Spotting mechanism is actually quite weird. It works binary: you're either spotted or not. Around your ship is a circle. You can make that visible on your minimap (ctrl and mouse to the comb wheel: click "detectability by sea and by air"). Everything on or in that circle will see you. (There are ships with a smaller circle so you might not see them). The indicator "detected" means something is in that circle, seeing you. Keep in mind that whatever you see the whole team sees. And that goes for the reds as well. When you fire your guns (main guns, not secondaries) your circle will increase to the firing range of your guns. For 20 seconds. And that can be an eternity in certain situations. The spotting range for aircraft is most often less (for some reason I can't phantom ships will see you sooner than planes.) But: planes can spot you through mountains. vv your AA will shoot through mountains as well. They can't see you in smoke.

Also there is this thing: guaranteed spotting. If you come within 2 km of a ship (3 with useless target acquisition) you and him will see each other. Regardless of smoke or terrain.

So if your teams asks you to spot they mean: venture in and try to get into the circle of the cruisers and BB's. Bear in mind very often they are selfish players who gladly sacrifice you to get some potshots so estimate if the risk is acceptable. If you know the place could be swarmed with radar ships then don't go. How much they whine: it'll be a quick trip back to port for you.

Lastly: paint, captain skills and upgrades will further narrow your circle down.

Hope this'll help OP.

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Also try to resist popping smoke the second you are spotted, especially if its by another DD in/near a cap. Once you are in smoke you are no longer spotting all the other ships nearby and your team can no longer support you as they have nothing to shoot at. Quite often the other DD will pop smoke and in a few seconds you will be undetected again. May need to bob and weave, to avoid shots. Also coming to a stop and starting up again. shells will land in front of you. (Even though that seems scary it works) Then send a load of torps into the other smoke in hopes that the enemy DD is sitting sideways in the smoke.  All the while you are keeping the other ships spotted so your team can help you.

Edited by BC_Wolfen

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2 hours ago, Harathan said:

The spotting mechanics don't change per ship class. It's still your detection range vs their detection range.

 

True, and realistically he should have picked that stuff up by now but with the vast majority of those 4000 games being in BBs, I could see how someone who isn't driven to understand the mechanics could lack a solid grasp of how a DD spots for his team. I didn't look but a German BB player, for an example, could play quite well without understanding those nuances. Again, he should know it by now, just saying it isn't as bad as it looks before you open his profile. 

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Huge amount of data to take in; thanks to all and I will work on it; I am running the GNEVNY, Mahan and the Akatsuki; have been running them out as gunboats as I suck at torps;  now getting the idea on torps so feel better going out.  Now I will work on the spotting and hope that I can help my team better.   Been working on getting Discord up and running; have been asked to join in of clad battles.  Hope I figure it out too.  Thanks again for the input;

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On 11/28/2018 at 1:09 PM, Vaffu said:

Use control then left click on the minimap where you want to call attention to. USE the RPF captain skill if you are not already so you can use it to find ships you cannot yet see.

Is that what people are doing at the start of the game when 30 blocks start popping up all of the map?  Never knew what people were trying to communicate.

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On 11/28/2018 at 6:36 PM, BC_Wolfen said:

Also try to resist popping smoke the second you are spotted, especially if its by another DD in/near a cap. Once you are in smoke you are no longer spotting all the other ships nearby and your team can no longer support you as they have nothing to shoot at. Quite often the other DD will pop smoke and in a few seconds you will be undetected again. May need to bob and weave, to avoid shots. Also coming to a stop and starting up again. shells will land in front of you. (Even though that seems scary it works) Then send a load of torps into the other smoke in hopes that the enemy DD is sitting sideways in the smoke.  All the while you are keeping the other ships spotted so your team can help you.

Yes but if a DD spots you and your priority target goes up to 4, please pop the smoke and go in the opposite direction.

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1 hour ago, SJ_Sailer said:

Is that what people are doing at the start of the game when 30 blocks start popping up all of the map?  Never knew what people were trying to communicate.

Yes unfortunately many abuse that system.

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1 hour ago, SJ_Sailer said:

Yes but if a DD spots you and your priority target goes up to 4, please pop the smoke and go in the opposite direction.

Always try to run from detection and use smoke as a last resort.  Smoke attracts torpedoes and radar.

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33 minutes ago, Vaffu said:

Smoke attracts torpedoes and radar.

Hold it...back up there Hos...Are you saying short term British Smoke is enough to get a Cruiser to spend a Radar charge?  I got like 6 on a Jervis.  Money well spent if that is the case.

I will have to drop smoke on the way to island cover to see if that works.

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1 hour ago, SJ_Sailer said:

Hold it...back up there Hos...Are you saying short term British Smoke is enough to get a Cruiser to spend a Radar charge?  I got like 6 on a Jervis.  Money well spent if that is the case.

I will have to drop smoke on the way to island cover to see if that works.

Radar ships do not care how long your smoke lasts if you pop smoke in range chances are you will be lit.

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