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jason199506

stalingrad average damage comparison

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intro

So, I've realized that everyone has been having different opinions on how strong(or not) the stalingrad is, but I dont see any actual stat comparison of stalingrad, mainly because we all know how the stalingrad playerbase compare to all players

i decided to do a "stalingrad owner stat comparison" myself. 

i went to wows-numbers's stalingrad leaderboard and got the 53 names on there, and add 6 more people that i know that have stalingrad (i dont know how else to obtain a list of stalingrad owners)

this is a very limited sample size, but this is the best i can do 

so this comparison has a total of 59 people, 59 possible data points

 

next, i went to warships.today to get recent stats. all time stats are severely skewed depending what each person's first tech tree line is, recent stat is a far better evaluation of a person's performance

wows-numbers doesnt offer "stats of a specific time period" function, i had to use warship.today (and for whatever reason i have severe connection issue to warships.today, more than half the time i spent was on spamming F5 button)

i mostly choose periods of between 90 and 365 days, within 90 days i think there's too little battle, over 365 days i think the person improved too much and it's not fair to include the ancient stats in the comparison

but sometimes warships.today decide to do this 

11122.png

and i had no choice but to use the 2.5 years old data skewed heavily in favour of stalingrad (there is one person that i just skipped him because warships.today wouldnt cooperate, leaving me with 58 data points)

therefore some of the data points are somewhat skewed in favour of stalingrad

 

only ships with more than 10 battles over the period is included

 

also, keep in mind all the buffs/nerfs to these ships within last year

hindenburg received a HE pen buff, several patches later a ROF nerf, very recently a repair party buff(this is the most complicated case, stats could either be stronger or weaker what it should be in its current state)

henri IV received main battery reload booster(stats are mostly weaker than what it should be in its current state)

zao received 12km torp(stats are mostly weaker than what it should be in its current state)

moskva received bow armour buff(impact should be minimal)

 

 

 

the actual comparison(summary)

ok here we go the summary 

9qeU4JO.png

the "any ship" is kind of a "stalingrad versus everyone else" thing, for each person i chose the highest damage from all other ships, and treat all that as a separate ship

salem is exclude because too little people own it

of these 58 people, more than 60% has at least a ship with higher average damage than their stalingrad, less than 40% has stalingrad as their highest average damage cruiser

 

if we look closely, only hindenburg has a higher average damage than stalingrad.

but like stated above, hindenburg is very complicated, i have no way of telling when most people played their hindenburg. i guess this could only be answered by WG themselves, but let's just say damage-wise, hindenburg ≈ stalingrad

zao and henri are both only lower than stalingrad by less than 4000, but like mentioned above, both zao and and henri received buffs during this 300 day period, i dont think every single person only played those 2 ships after their buff, so i do believe there are a significant amount of pre-buff data mixed within(at least for myself, i played both henri and zao before the buff, and those stats are counted toward the comparison)

therefore in their current state, both zao and henri should be stronger than what their stats showed, so again let's just say damage-wise, both (current) zao and henri IV ≈ stalingrad

 

and then the other 4 ships are a significant distance behind hindenburg stalingrad zao and henri. worcester is lower by ~10k, moskva and des moines by 15k, minotaur by 27k

conclusion: in the list of stalingrad players, in terms of damage,  hindenburg ≈ stalingrad ≈ zao ≈ henri IV > worcester > moskva ≈ des moines > minotaur

 

the actual comparison(ship by ship)

in this part, i plotted the average of stalingrad agaisnt another ship, person by person

take zao for example, a person's stalingrad average damage is the X value, the same person's zao average damage is the Y value

the amount of data point for each plot is listed above in the "total people with both....." row

 

how to read the plots (interpretation might include strong personal opinion)

i'm kind of just providing a quick guide as to how to understand the plots, it contains a lot of my personal opinion. the plots however are not affected by my personal opinion, so you can interpret the data any way your want

Spoiler

 

red trendline/top left red box is the line of best forced through the origin. imo this indicates a rough estimate of relative strength between the ships, without taking into account the damage growth with skill level

blue trendline/top right blue box is the line of best fit not forced through the origin. imo this indicates the relative strength of ships including how they change with skill level

green line is the x=y line.

take zao for example

if a data point appears to the top left , this person's zao average damage is higher than the same person's stalingrad average damage

if a data point appears to the bottom left of the green line, this person's stalingrad average damage is higher than the same person's zao average damage

0akghTY.png

 

 

 

 

and here are the plots for each ship

8k3Garo.png

zao is interesting, i dont know if the 12xk stlg/80k zao outlier affect the plot too much, but the trendline seems to show that zao is a lot more noob friendly than stalingrad

but if we remove the few outliers, they are pretty clustered around the x=y line, meaning zao and stlg are roughly equal, with more points bottom right than top left

 

l6acqlP.png

if we remove the outlier at 14xk stlg/11kx hind, it's again pretty much clustered around the x=y line, with more points top left than bottom right

 

 

07P9lwP.png

no significant outlier there, fit line almost perfectly overlap with x=y. dmg of stlg and HIV almost grow at the same pace with skill, and overall their damage is also almost identical

interestingly though, all 5 out of the 6 data points in the top right corner(both ships avg dmg above 120k) have higher HIV avg dmg than stlg. the last point have almost identical avg dmg in both ships

 

 

R7TN2N4.png

GnIVUwB.png

WW125NB.png

GI56qYW.png

the rest are just straight out inferior, nothing worth mentioning here

 

 

a bunch of stuff

so....here's all the plots i can come up with from this limited set of data, if you learned something new, good. if you didnt, welp ╮(╯▽╰)╭

why did i do damage? because this is the easist trackable value. for win rate id need to look at solo que/2man div/3man div.

average kill? could work, but today only gives kill to 1 decimal place. numbers give it to 2 decimal place, but numbers cant isolate data over a period of time

so i'd end up working with a value ranging from 0 to ~2 with increments of 0.1.............no, i dont want to do that

 

so, this is just a comparison in terms of raw damage delt of stalingrad vs another ship from people that own both, in random battles only

this is not meant to show how "good" stalingrad is overall. the performance of a ship is a very complicated thing, and raw damage number cant represent it all, but at least it's a rough reflection of its performances

i dont want to draw conclusion on whether it's overpowered or what not, i'd rather just present to plots and let you guys decide

 

 

the link to all the images are here 

https://imgur.com/a/2hO03ft

Ive also upload the excel chart

https://drive.google.com/open?id=1UjTortu2NfQ97J385pHrVYbwAmN2I_ZN

feel free to take the data i recorded from warships.today and do whatever analysis you want with it. just remember to post your result back here

 

Edited by jason199506
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8 hours ago, Cpt_Cupcake said:

Don't use warships today. Its info isn't that accurate. WoWS numbers is updated more often

 

numbers only give all time

don't want to compare ancient stats to recent ones,  it would skew the data too much in favour of stalingrad as stalingrad is guaranteed recent

 

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One consideration here too is that it's likely most of the Stalingrad damage is AP, not HE/fires. And legendary modules for several of the CAs are pretty useful.

I would guess the Henri/Zao buffs aren't totally reflected either. Most decent players I know in the Henri now average a lot more than 108k too with the reload boost and legendary modules. I don't even feel like I play it overly well and am around 125k average damage.

But anyways, nice writeup. Most people will see this and not understand the implications - that being, the Stalingrad is comparable to most other TX CAs in damage output.

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1 hour ago, enderland07 said:

One consideration here too is that it's likely most of the Stalingrad damage is AP, not HE/fires.

yeah....thats why i say i just want to present the numbers without drawing conclusion on which ship is "better"

Quote

And legendary modules for several of the CAs are pretty useful.

i completely forgot about leg mods(facepalm)

well i guess it just further skews the data towards stalingrad

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1 minute ago, jason199506 said:

i completely forgot about leg mods(facepalm)

well i guess it just further skews the data towards stalingrad

I think it'd have the opposite effect as those are reasonably new and improve overall DPM, so it'd mean the non-Stalingrad stats are slightly lower (because they include data from pre-legendary module).

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22 minutes ago, enderland07 said:

I think it'd have the opposite effect as those are reasonably new and improve overall DPM, so it'd mean the non-Stalingrad stats are slightly lower (because they include data from pre-legendary module).

yeah, so non-stlg stat will appear to be lower than those ships in its current stat, displaying stlg to be stronger than what it actually is

thats what i mean by it skews the data towards stlg

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