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Legio_X_

Gneisenau is giving me fits.....

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I really enjoyed the Bayern and still have her in my port. Now when I move into T7 and started fighting T8-T9 ships I’m hitting a brick wall with this ship. I try to play to her strengths, which I feel is medium to close range fighting, but whenever I make a move with the team or with support close by I just get completely rekt by HE spamming ships (mainly the British BB line).

Does anybody have any tips on playing around the HE meta at higher tiers? 

p.s I’m running a 12pt captain on her right now with a secondary build in order (gonna place captain in Bismarck when I finally get it)

 

 

Edited by Legio_X_

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Nibble around the edges until the enemy team is thinned out. Most players push in too early with her and get wrecked because of focus fire. Later in the game there arent as many people to spam you so you can tear it up. Using cover well is also important.

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The Gneisenau strength lies in her chasing down single ships and eliminating them with extreme prejudice. Problem is everyone knows this and generally keeps you at arms length.

 

Your goal early to mid game is to keep pressure on the enemy because no one wants to push against you by themselves. Then when the enemy gets thinned out, you push in and start hunting the enemy down one by one with your superior speed

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Secondary build? No, NO, NOT IN THE CURRENT ENVIRONMENT! You're going to get fried easily unless you have FIRE PREVENTION...

Make sure you have the main guns accuracy equipment. You need it to survive into the late game because you're a favourite for HE spammers, due to the rarity of FIRE PREVENTION on German BBs.

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Gneisenau is a good 1v1 ship as it has torpedo tubes that can give you the upper hand against other ships in a brawl. The secondaries and turtleback work too. The main batteries are the biggest problem, only six guns and they are very inaccurate, but they rotate fast and can still destroy cruisers and overmatch t7 battleships. Since it's a really fast ship, try changing the throttle every then and now and don't sail at full speed in the beginning to make sure you do not overextend.

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59 minutes ago, RipNuN2 said:

Nibble around the edges until the enemy team is thinned out. Most players push in too early with her and get wrecked because of focus fire. Later in the game there arent as many people to spam you so you can tear it up. Using cover well is also important.

This. Start the game as a traditional bb. Stay back. Push the edges. Snipe although your results will be mixed at long range. Focus on the ships pushing. Mid to late game you can push and punish. I had a full secondary build to hit dds while my main guns worked bigger ships.

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Heh I really like the Gneisnau; I'd say her strength is that T7 MM is still generally pretty favorable, even if seemingly not as favorable as a few months ago. In a T7 match you can still push pretty aggressively even with only a little bit of "thinning" of the other team... just make sure not to push into a cross fire; try to find a flank. It helps that she is very fast and has very good AA too.

Kind of an old game, but I think still kind of shows the point:

Spoiler

 

 

Edited by pikohan

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Here's how to make the Gneisenau work:

  1. Begin by playing the long game like any other BB.  It's hard 'cause it's only 6 guns, but you just have to make it work.
  2. As teams start to thin out, start looking for stragglers to engage in a 1-on-1.
  3. Once a straggler is found, get opportunistic and start closing distance to bring your secondaries and torpedoes to bear.
  4. Avoid situations where your straggler can call on the help of his buddies.

The Gneisenau is one of those ships that is super fast and really well armored, but you can't rely on any one type of its armament to be "reliable".  It's like coordinating and orchestra of unreliable parts to all come together and sound like music.  It's main battery is awful.  It's secondaries are amazing, but lack range.  And its torpedoes are decent (for a BB), but difficult to use.  But put 'em all together and you've got something fun.

Stick with it.  Bismarck is worth it.

Edited by Ranari

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She is a battle cruiser, with big guns, but few tubes. I play mine as a cruise hunter till the red's thin out, they pick the stragglers BB's and go to town. 

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Bought, used, sold, bought again used a little, sold again. Cannot hit cruiser 5 km away broadside. Guns are too inaccurate and too few. Imho

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Sadly, this is par for the course in higher tier KM BBs.  They really need some sort of short-range accuracy buff.  Their accuracy is so bad that the French BBs are now far better brawlers, because they have decent secondaries AND they can actually hit stuff with their main guns.

Nice job breaking it, WG.

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On 11/30/2018 at 7:37 AM, Ranari said:

 

The Gneisenau is one of those ships that is super fast and really well armored, but you can't rely on any one type of its armament to be "reliable".  It's like coordinating and orchestra of unreliable parts to all come together and sound like music.  It's main battery is awful.  It's secondaries are amazing, but lack range.  And its torpedoes are decent (for a BB), but difficult to use.  But put 'em all together and you've got something fun.

Stick with it.  Bismarck is worth it.

My experience has been Gneisenau is worth it but the Bismark is not.  As bad as the guns are on Gnei, they are even worse on the Bismark.  Bismark guns  remind me of that Monty Python movie where they catapult cows, pigs, geese, and ducks from the top of the castle.  My mileage is probably varying I guess.

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2 minutes ago, MentalTossFlycoon said:

My experience has been Gneisenau is worth it but the Bismark is not.  As bad as the guns are on Gnei, they are even worse on the Bismark.  Bismark guns  remind me of that Monty Python movie where they catapult cows, pigs, geese, and ducks from the top of the castle.  My mileage is probably varying I guess.

I'm confused.  The [in-game] Gneisenau and Bismarck (and Tirpitz) use the exact same 380mm L/52 SK C/34  guns.  Except for the max range, everything about them - their performance, ballistics, penetration, etc - is 100% identical.  You just have more of them to work with on the Bismarck.  I just don't see how they can be worse given they're the exact same thing.

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If you are high tier you pick on low tier battleships that don't have the speed or secondaries to compete with you.  Look for opportunities and if a lone battleship or cruiser comes along punish them. You use what you have (speed, secondaries, torpedos) to your advantage and with tier 7 matchmaking you should be the top tier more times than not. 

Edited by Schnitchelkid01_

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I've been playing Gneis exclusively the last few days.  The boat is a lot of fun, but man oh man the dispersion is awful.  So many overpens. So few citadels. Last night was uncharacteristically awful. I couldn't reliably hit cruisers at 6km.

 

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On 1/2/2019 at 10:06 AM, Ranari said:

I'm confused.  The [in-game] Gneisenau and Bismarck (and Tirpitz) use the exact same 380mm L/52 SK C/34  guns.  Except for the max range, everything about them - their performance, ballistics, penetration, etc - is 100% identical.  You just have more of them to work with on the Bismarck.  I just don't see how they can be worse given they're the exact same thing. 

I suspect the issue is more that a Bismarck pretty much lives in tier 10, whereas a Gneisanau at least has a chance at lower tiers. Also, those torpedoes can be real lifesavers when in a brawl.

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Hey

Gneisenau is a very good boat but needs 2 things to be a great competitive boat.  It needs a buff to the reload of about 3-4 seconds faster since it only has 6 guns, and/or a sigma buff to actually hit what you decently aim at.  I would prefer the faster reload, especially with only 6 guns.

 

Pete

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It confuses me as to why the German BBs were chosen for the curse of bad accuracy/dispersion, considering that the German BBs have the least amount of main battery guns. Most other ships have triple turrets or more than 4 double turrets while you don't achieve more than 8 guns until Großer Kurfürst at Tier X (There is Scharnhorst at Tier VII with 3 triple turrets, but Scharny has tiny BB guns). You'd think the bad dispersion curse would be given to the line of BBs with the most guns or even the line of BBs with the biggest guns. Then again, I could be overthinking it.

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8 hours ago, HeavenlyWind_ said:

It confuses me as to why the German BBs were chosen for the curse of bad accuracy/dispersion, considering that the German BBs have the least amount of main battery guns. Most other ships have triple turrets or more than 4 double turrets while you don't achieve more than 8 guns until Großer Kurfürst at Tier X (There is Scharnhorst at Tier VII with 3 triple turrets, but Scharny has tiny BB guns). You'd think the bad dispersion curse would be given to the line of BBs with the most guns or even the line of BBs with the biggest guns. Then again, I could be overthinking it.

Hey

Balancing they say BUT I think this is a cop-out argument.  There is a in-game bias against the Germans and the Japanese in many ways when you compare them to everyone else.

 

Pete

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On 11/27/2018 at 6:27 PM, Legio_X_ said:

I really enjoyed the Bayern and still have her in my port. Now when I move into T7 and started fighting T8-T9 ships I’m hitting a brick wall with this ship. I try to play to her strengths, which I feel is medium to close range fighting, but whenever I make a move with the team or with support close by I just get completely rekt by HE spamming ships (mainly the British BB line).

Does anybody have any tips on playing around the HE meta at higher tiers? 

p.s I’m running a 12pt captain on her right now with a secondary build in order (gonna place captain in Bismarck when I finally get it)

 

 

I do think tier for tier the Gneise is the best BB in the game, for tier 7 BB:

-Best AA.

-Fastest ship.

-Strong armor that can bounce tier 9 shells (properly angled).

-Ok guns for the tier with fast reload and turret rotation, torpedoes.

-Monstrous secondaries if IFHE is used in your skills (can even pen tier 9 bow and superstructure).

-Very agile despite the speed and size of the ship making you able to dodge torpedoes and angle properly on emergencies.

 

Tier for tier it is the best BB in the game, of course it will struggle a bit against higher tier targets but you have to play smart when you are the underdog. Early game both AP and HE are good choice but i would recommend to harass with HE from long range, you might score a lucky fire or just harvest HE pen damage.

Mid game, when the cruisers population on the enemy team is starting to twiddle then is when you start going forward. Never go in a straight line to avoid torpedoes but close the gap to your favorite targets; BB.

Perfect angle to bounce big shells in the Gneise? The moment your back turret cant fire where you are aiming is the perfect angle, the bow is angled but if he shoots there it will overpen and the very thick side belt will hold all day even against a Musashi. Once you bounced the upcoming salvo simply swing a bit and deliver a broadside of your own, secondaries will make the target panic (or melt it if you have IFHE) and as soon you are in torpedo range well "FINISH HIM!".

 

You are agile enough to dodge torpedoes and brawl with destroyers, letting your god like secondaries melting them to death (or even torpedo them when they lose the will to live).

Cruisers are your weakness: They are faster than you, they will angle to bounce your main guns shells and they will spam you with HE. Let the others handle them, your job is to deliver the killing blow on isolated BB or chase down DD by pretending being a cruiser.

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Older thread. Newer info. 

Had this ship when line introduced. Dispersion so bad you’d straddle a broadside battleship at 10km. Only 6 guns that needed suicidal tactics to hit anything. Hated it.

Rebought this week for some mission giggles. Played a dozen randoms. With a secondary/survival build its better than I remember but 6 wonky guns is frustrating. Needs 13-14 point captain to be optimized with secondary range, ifhe and survivability. It still burns way to easily. It’s always on fire and that makes mid/close range even more difficult. Not sure about the resistance to musashi but jean Bart had zero isssues wrecking my turrets and eating my face as I tried to charge for a last ditch torp run.

Tier for tier best BB?? Sarcasm I hope. Albert, Nicholai beg to differ.

Edited by thebigblue

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On 4/28/2019 at 11:57 AM, thebigblue said:

Older thread. Newer info. 

Had this ship when line introduced. Dispersion so bad you’d straddle a broadside battleship at 10km. Only 6 guns that needed suicidal tactics to hit anything. Hated it.

Rebought this week for some mission giggles. Played a dozen randoms. With a secondary/survival build its better than I remember but 6 wonky guns is frustrating. Needs 13-14 point captain to be optimized with secondary range, ifhe and survivability. It still burns way to easily. It’s always on fire and that makes mid/close range even more difficult. Not sure about the resistance to musashi but jean Bart had zero isssues wrecking my turrets and eating my face as I tried to charge for a last ditch torp run.

Tier for tier best BB?? Sarcasm I hope. Albert, Nicholai beg to differ.

Using X to target each ship individually works wonders for this ship.

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Hi,

I am new to this BB. I love using her as a brawler. Should i NOT get the B version since it lowers the number of secondaries?

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A wise player once told me every ship is a tool, it has specific uses.  Gneisenau is a perfect example of that.  Low number of guns, fairly inaccurate, but her torps, armor, speed, and quasi-secondaries allow the Gneis to pick her fights.  In addition, maybe start "farming" captains for alternative game play.  The Gneisenau has a good AA suite; start a captain that is tanky/aa spec.  Some CC's, lIke Noster, promotes FP/MAA over CE due to the numbers of CV's.  Do not get discouraged, she is a fine ship if uses correctly.  Great post btw 

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