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Gen_Saris

Buff 100mm French BB secondaries.

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These things are beyond useless, even IFHE won't bring them up to snuff. The uselessness of IJN 100mm guns was rectified with a pen buff, the French 100s need to be treated the same. 

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The IJN guns were buffed because they were the primary source of damage for a number of ships, and had IFHE on their list of 100% mandatory skills. 

The French 100mm gun does not fill that definition. The Secondaries are not your primary source of damage, and IFHE is not mandatory. So...

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1 minute ago, TornadoADV said:

Your 100mm DPs are for starting fires, my dude.

They don't do that at nearly the rate advertised either. I can rack up 300 secondary hits with JB and start maybe 1 fire.

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17 minutes ago, SireneRacker said:

The IJN guns were buffed because they were the primary source of damage for a number of ships, and had IFHE on their list of 100% mandatory skills. 

The French 100mm gun does not fill that definition. The Secondaries are not your primary source of damage, and IFHE is not mandatory. So...

Then why buff the same gun used as secondaries on IJN BB's?  They just showed us the same gun can have two different pen values with the recent German 105mm buff.  Those French 100mm (not to mention the Italian 90mm) could use some of that love.

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3 minutes ago, Airacobra said:

Then why buff the same gun used as secondaries on IJN BB's?  They just showed us the same gun can have two different pen values with the recent German 105mm buff.  Those French 100mm (not to mention the Italian 90mm) could use some of that love.

Except the French 100mm tend to have much more range than the Japanese 100mm and come in greater quantities. For example, the Kii (the most viable 100mm secondary build) can only reach about 7.5 range. That is the BASE range of the Alsace.

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French secondaries are fine. They have incredible range and fire starting ability. With IFHE, the 100m guns can wreck destroyers at tier 8+. Without, they can hurt DDs tier 7 and below. It's the same issue that German secondaries have as the quarter pen buff only works on secondaries 128mm and up.

Also, what buff? The only ships on the IJN line that uses the 100m guns as secondaries are Zao and Ibuki (and Hak apparently). No IJN BB uses 100m shells at all.

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1 minute ago, KaptainKaybe said:

French secondaries are fine. They have incredible range and fire starting ability. With IFHE, the 100m guns can wreck destroyers at tier 8+. Without, they can hurt DDs tier 7 and below. It's the same issue that German secondaries have as the quarter pen buff only works on secondaries 128mm and up.

Also, what buff? The only ships on the IJN line that uses the 100m guns as secondaries are Zao and Ibuki (and Hak apparently). No IJN BB uses 100m shells at all.

The Kii does.

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1 minute ago, KaptainKaybe said:

Also, what buff? The only ships on the IJN line that uses the 100m guns as secondaries are Zao and Ibuki (and Hak apparently). No IJN BB uses 100m shells at all.

It's okay, lots of people forget about Kii.

Though the OP is talking about the Akizuki and cousins.

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Just now, Sensai_Lawrence said:

buff all secondaries.  double their range and increase the damage they do

How's that educational challenge coming along? You should have hit Akatsuki by now.

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7 minutes ago, TornadoADV said:

The Kii does.

The tier 10 IJN CV does, and those guns GOT the pen buff. Check it out in game.

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5 minutes ago, KiyoSenkan said:

How's that educational challenge coming along? You should have hit Akatsuki by now.

I'm waiting for RNG to let me shoot straight. :Smile_sad:

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Why? Other then "because"? French BBs do not need a buff. And the Japanese 10cm gun was buffed because it is the main battery for 3 destroyers, not to try and buff already extremely powerful BBs.

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Play French BBs a lot and have no issues w the secondaries...but hey if you want to buff them :)

 

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1 hour ago, Gen_Saris said:

These things are beyond useless, even IFHE won't bring them up to snuff. The uselessness of IJN 100mm guns was rectified with a pen buff, the French 100s need to be treated the same. 

Then dont use them.

French BBs' advantage are their speed and shell velocity.

Only potatoes spec in secondaries, dont become one of them.

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1 minute ago, DoIphin_Princess said:

Then dont use them.

French BBs' advantage are their speed and shell velocity.

Only potatoes spec in secondaries, dont become one of them.

I don't secondary spec on my high tier French BBs... but why give them the range where a secondary build becomes *possible* if the guns are impotent? They might as well be 8km Roman candles. 

The buff to IJN 100mm guns found on their DDs was clear admission that the 100mm caliber is useless across the board. All I'm asking for is equal treatment.

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I disagree.  Alsace's 100mm secondaries are very good with IFHE.  Some don't even care for IFHE and let the high rate of fire instead be a Fire Setting mode.  With IFHE, it already makes these guns have as much penetration as larger 127mm guns.  I run Alsace with IFHE Manual Secondaries Build, she carves through stuff easily.

 

I am typically against more of these buffs to small guns to statistically be as strong as larger guns.

 

First we had the German Cruiser HE Pen Buff so they now have penetration far larger than their gun size.

Then we got the IJN 100mm HE Pen Buff.  You had these guns purely for AA purposes and not much else, now they are the Future of Naval Warfare.

FDG is getting buffs to her 105mm Secondaries in HE Pen, basically giving her the /4 instead of /6.  Traditionally I'd be against this, but FDG needs help because the ship isn't that great.

 

There needs to be some standard on the value of larger guns instead of these piddly pea shooters being better than what they really are.  A concession needs to be made for ship balance, i.e. FDG needing help, but needless buffs like the IJN 100mm did not need to happen.  I mean, FFS did Akizuki's performance look that bad to merit the IJN 100mm HE Pen Buff?

Edited by HazeGrayUnderway

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9 minutes ago, Gen_Saris said:

I don't secondary spec on my high tier French BBs... but why give them the range where a secondary build becomes *possible* if the guns are impotent? They might as well be 8km Roman candles. 

The buff to IJN 100mm guns found on their DDs was clear admission that the 100mm caliber is useless across the board. All I'm asking for is equal treatment.

Then you better dig up some designs for French destroyers that use 10cm guns in tiers 8-9, and 10.

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7 minutes ago, Gen_Saris said:

These things are beyond useless, even IFHE won't bring them up to snuff. The uselessness of IJN 100mm guns was rectified with a pen buff, the French 100s need to be treated the same. 

What tier do you mean? Rich and up they seem to be good. They’ll light dds. Seconaries in general seem to have been nerfed some time a go, all bbs run survival builds anyway 

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1 hour ago, Airacobra said:

Then why buff the same gun used as secondaries on IJN BB's?  They just showed us the same gun can have two different pen values with the recent German 105mm buff.  Those French 100mm (not to mention the Italian 90mm) could use some of that love.

The 100mm gun is a gun that is used on Destroyers as main guns, and the 1/4 pen buff was made for the DDs, the BBs happened to carry the same gun and no harm would really be done by having them share that value. Kii‘s secondary build was not viable at that point anyway due to the AP secondaries, and Zao/Taihou/Hak Secondary builds would be a meme at best. It‘s not even as useful as a secondary buff if you look at the outcome. You would still have to invest at least 12 captain points to make them viable, so...

OP is asking for a buff that would affect Secondaries only. The buff would not remove the burden of having to pick IFHE for your ship, like it was done for the Akizukis. You‘d want it anyway, just now to pass that 32mm threshold. And oh god, Roma Secondary pen buff? If your Roma is using her Secondaries, you got other things to worry about.

I should remind you FdG‘s 105mm Secondary pen buff is still in ST. To build your point onto WiP data is rather risky.

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32 minutes ago, SireneRacker said:

The 100mm gun is a gun that is used on Destroyers as main guns, and the 1/4 pen buff was made for the DDs, the BBs happened to carry the same gun and no harm would really be done by having them share that value. Kii‘s secondary build was not viable at that point anyway due to the AP secondaries, and Zao/Taihou/Hak Secondary builds would be a meme at best. It‘s not even as useful as a secondary buff if you look at the outcome. You would still have to invest at least 12 captain points to make them viable, so...

^ This.

The IJN 100mm got buffed, because of the Japanese DD's, not because of the Japanese BB's. If no IJN DD's used the 100mm gun, I doubt WG would have buffed them, despite some IJN BB's carrying them as their secondaries. 

The French secondaries seem fine. I tried the secondaries build on my French BB's, and they seem to set plenty of fires. Sure, some days a lot, and some other days not so much... but overall, in the long run, they are indeed flamethrowers.

Just because they're both 100mm, it doesn't mean they're same guns.

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1 hour ago, SireneRacker said:

The 100mm gun is a gun that is used on Destroyers as main guns, and the 1/4 pen buff was made for the DDs, the BBs happened to carry the same gun and no harm would really be done by having them share that value. Kii‘s secondary build was not viable at that point anyway due to the AP secondaries, and Zao/Taihou/Hak Secondary builds would be a meme at best. It‘s not even as useful as a secondary buff if you look at the outcome. You would still have to invest at least 12 captain points to make them viable, so...

OP is asking for a buff that would affect Secondaries only. The buff would not remove the burden of having to pick IFHE for your ship, like it was done for the Akizukis. You‘d want it anyway, just now to pass that 32mm threshold. And oh god, Roma Secondary pen buff? If your Roma is using her Secondaries, you got other things to worry about.

I should remind you FdG‘s 105mm Secondary pen buff is still in ST. To build your point onto WiP data is rather risky.

Imagine a High Tier, Premium IJN Paper BB featuring long range 100mm secondary battery :Smile_hiding:

Edited by HazeGrayUnderway

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1 hour ago, Blorgh2017 said:

The French secondaries seem fine. I tried the secondaries build on my French BB's, and they seem to set plenty of fires. Sure, some days a lot, and some other days not so much... but overall, in the long run, they are indeed flamethrowers.

Just tried a battle in JB... 199 secondary hits, TWO fires. That is hardly a "flamethrower"

They're not even working up to what the fire chance says... not anywhere close.

All those hits and NOTHING... they're worthless, they're sparklers.

JB100mm.jpg

Edited by Gen_Saris
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