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Judadiao

Concerns about aiming after 5K battles in WOWS

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There are two fundamental questions that I do not have an answer to after reading many posts/videos about proper aiming:

  1. It is obviously shell travel time and target speed affect lead, but how about target distance? Should I lead the same ticks for a ship at 10km and the same ship at 20km which travel at same speed/direction and with (assuming) equal shell travel time? For my experience in game they are not the same but many articles tell us you lead the same ticks as shell flight time for a battleship sized target moving at 20 kt without mentioning/saying regardless of distance. Furthermore,  there is a custom dynamic crosshair in Aslain's mod called "Nomogram" whose tick mark's intervals change according to target distance (not zoom level when you scroll the mouse wheel). Someone recommended it greatly Here in 2017, but not many people had interest in it.
  2. Why are 99% of players using the bow as the reference of aiming? When talking about lead, naturally we make prediction of where the shells will land after some time. However, all the tutorial videos about aiming put the prediction tick mark at the bow whereas they expect the shells to land at the center of the target. This makes the lead calculation illogical and people need to adjust lead according to different sizes of ships (lead more for smaller target). Imagine that you want to shoot a moving animal's head, naturally you will aim at the head but not at its feet expecting to hit the head, right? The more I played the more unreasonable I feel about this. There is only one topic date back to 2016 that proposed the theory of aiming at where the shells will land (Check here). I feel the theory is somehow in the right direction but he a) ignored the distance impact and b) he has no solid proof of the speed the crosshair is calibrated for, which are 12 kt (static) and 21.5 kt (dynamic).

I had played over 5k battles in wows at which time my aiming is not too bad I believe. I can hit where I want 90% of time regardless of target ship type, speed or angle. Then I decided to switch to dynamic crosshair from static since I watched many CCs and unicum players using dynamic crosshair. Another reason is that I play DM/Worcester/Atlanta a lot. Under static crosshair I often have to aim out of the tick marks or even the binocular sight due to the slow shell speed. Then for the recent 50 games I totally messed up with aiming. I found that I could not hit anything reliably and that is why I wanted to start doing research on all this math/calculation theory.

I know that many people will just aim by eyeball and experience, and it works perfectly. When you have 10k battles maybe aiming is just a matter of muscle memory. If you play wows just for fun and leisure then you may feel this topic meaningless. However, personally I just want to have a more logical/mathematical calculation of lead because we all know wows is a math game despite those crappy RNGs. We have 14.3 overmatch coefficient, 1/4 or 1/6 HE pen threshold, IFHE pen threshold, etc. If anyone wants to play well in wows he/she has to remember these numbers and makes use of it. Another benefit is having an accurate aiming mechanic can help people adapt to any ship faster, not only for novices but also for experienced players. Think about playing a Worcester after you played dozens of games in Moskva, by experience I know I have to lead more, but how much more? I may need another 3 games to re-adapt to the DM, while with a precise calculation, I might be able to re-adapt in just 3 salvos.

Long words in short, what do you guys think of how exactly the aiming system works?

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The dynamic crosshair is vastly better than the static ones for accurate aiming.  By definition, the static crosshairs do not scale as you zoom in or out.  And thus, the tick marks have absolutely no meaning.  The one value of the static crosshairs is that there are some that have nice diagonal lines which would definitely be useful if added to the dynamic crosshair.  But beyond that, the static crosshair is really nothing more than aiming by guess work, whereas a properly used dynamic crosshair allows for solid mathematically aimed shots.

Edited by Crucis
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What Crucis said.  Dynamic crosshair is consistent at any range.  The way it works is that it assumes a target is moving at 30 knots.  Each tick represents one second of shell travel time.  All you need to do is adjust for x/y axis deviations and target movement speed.  Zoom level is irrelevant to dynamic crosshair.

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4 hours ago, Crucis said:

The dynamic crosshair is vastly better than the static ones for accurate aiming.  By definition, the static crosshairs do not scale as you zoom in or out.  And thus, the tick marks have absolutely no meaning.  The one value of the static crosshairs is that there are some that have nice diagonal lines which would definitely be useful if added to the dynamic crosshair.  But beyond that, the static crosshair is really nothing more than aiming by guess work, whereas a properly used dynamic crosshair allows for solid mathematically aimed shots.

 

4 hours ago, Pope_Shizzle said:

What Crucis said.  Dynamic crosshair is consistent at any range.  The way it works is that it assumes a target is moving at 30 knots.  Each tick represents one second of shell travel time.  All you need to do is adjust for x/y axis deviations and target movement speed.  Zoom level is irrelevant to dynamic crosshair.

Yes, dynamic crosshair is useful when zooming in/out. However, I personally don't think the default dynamic crosshair has consistency at any range. At least not based on my game experience. For example, say that a Montana is moving at 30 knots at 10 km away, perfect broadside. Your shell travel time is 5s and you lead 5 ticks ahead, meaning put the Montana's bow at the 5 tick mark. Fire and the shells should land at the center of her body. Now the same Montana is moving at 30 knots at 20 km away, still perfect broadside, but your shell travel time increases to 12s. If you put her bow at the 12 mark and fire, your shells will not land at the center of the Monty if not completely miss. On the other hand, if the same Montana is at close range say 3km and your shell travel time is only 1s. If you put her bow at 1 tick mark most likely the shells will land at the front part instead of center. I can say that distance does matter and there is no consistency for either dynamic or static crosshair at all distance. If you try the Nomogram Dynamic Crosshair in Aslain's Mod Pack, you will see the ticks change as the distance changes, meaning if you move your mouse up and down (not scrolling mouse wheel for zooming), the intervals between each tick will change. If you locked a target, the intervals will be adjusted according to the distance of the target locked. That is completely different with the default dynamic crosshair.

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37 minutes ago, Judadiao said:

 

Yes, dynamic crosshair is useful when zooming in/out. However, I personally don't think the default dynamic crosshair has consistency at any range. At least not based on my game experience. For example, say that a Montana is moving at 30 knots at 10 km away, perfect broadside. Your shell travel time is 5s and you lead 5 ticks ahead, meaning put the Montana's bow at the 5 tick mark. Fire and the shells should land at the center of her body. Now the same Montana is moving at 30 knots at 20 km away, still perfect broadside, but your shell travel time increases to 12s. If you put her bow at the 12 mark and fire, your shells will not land at the center of the Monty if not completely miss. On the other hand, if the same Montana is at close range say 3km and your shell travel time is only 1s. If you put her bow at 1 tick mark most likely the shells will land at the front part instead of center. I can say that distance does matter and there is no consistency for either dynamic or static crosshair at all distance. If you try the Nomogram Dynamic Crosshair in Aslain's Mod Pack, you will see the ticks change as the distance changes, meaning if you move your mouse up and down (not scrolling mouse wheel for zooming), the intervals between each tick will change. If you locked a target, the intervals will be adjusted according to the distance of the target locked. That is completely different with the default dynamic crosshair.

That's not how you aim with a dynamic crosshair.  You do NOT put the bow on the 5 tick mark.  You put the 5 tick mark where you want the shells to land, i.e. on the citadel, i.e. the MIDDLE of the ship (usually).  If you put the 5 tick mark on the bow, then you're aiming AT the bow, not the citadel.

Edited by Crucis
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1 minute ago, Crucis said:

That['s not how you aim with a dynamic crosshair.  You do NOT put the bow on the 5 tick mark.  You put the 5 tick mark where you want the shells to land, i.e. on the citadel, i.e. the MIDDLE of the ship (usually).  If you put the 5 tick mark on the bow, then you're aiming AT the bow, not the citadel.

OK, so this is about my second question. Why are these video tutorials using the bow as the aiming point when it messes up with the calculation and few people had ever pointed out the mistake. I asked many unicum players in my clan and they all use this bow aiming method. Their aiming skill is excellent but I believe it comes more from experience and they adjust their lead according to their experience. Videos like iChase's Captain's Academic or Noster's Dynamic Crosshair guide are all using the bow as aiming point. I am glad that you pointed out that in dynamic crosshair we should aim at where the shells will land, which is more natural and reasonable as I mentioned in the og post. I have not tried this for dynamic so I will test it in game.

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I think I read somewhere that the ticks are based on a BB going 20. Assuming that most targets you aim at are probably going faster than that, you need to move your aim point further to the bow to account for the speed diff. Hence, bow aiming.

Keep aiming at the cit, and your shells will be lucky to hit the stern, if not miss completely.

Edited by permanentnoob
This is for optimal targets (i.e. broadside, constant speed). You still have to factor in angle, speed changes, etc.

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7 minutes ago, Judadiao said:

OK, so this is about my second question. Why are these video tutorials using the bow as the aiming point when it messes up with the calculation and few people had ever pointed out the mistake. I asked many unicum players in my clan and they all use this bow aiming method. Their aiming skill is excellent but I believe it comes more from experience and they adjust their lead according to their experience. Videos like iChase's Captain's Academic or Noster's Dynamic Crosshair guide are all using the bow as aiming point. I am glad that you pointed out that in dynamic crosshair we should aim at where the shells will land, which is more natural and reasonable as I mentioned in the og post. I have not tried this for dynamic so I will test it in game.

Strange, because I seem to recall in iChase's Captain's Academy video on aiming that it did say to aim where you wanted the shells to land.  But it's been so long since I've watched it, I might be misremembering it.

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3 minutes ago, permanentnoob said:

think I read somewhere that the ticks are based on a BB going 20. Assuming that most targets you aim at are probably going faster than that, you need to move your aim point further to the bow to account for the speed diff. Hence, bow aiming.

I think WG revised the ticks to 30 kts for the dynamic crosshair

 

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4 minutes ago, permanentnoob said:

I think I read somewhere that the ticks are based on a BB going 20. Assuming that most targets you aim at are probably going faster than that, you need to move your aim point further to the bow to account for the speed diff. Hence, bow aiming.

Keep aiming at the cit, and your shells will be lucky to hit the stern, if not miss completely.

The dynamic crosshair is calibrated for 30 kts.  The static crosshair is supposedly calibrated for 20 kts.  But the problem is that because the static crosshair doesn't scale itself when you zoom in and out, the tick marks are pretty much meaningless.

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5 minutes ago, permanentnoob said:

My bad, thought it was 20 in dynamic.

No prob.  

BTW, when aiming using the dynamic crosshair, you need to make adjustments for what you think is the speed of the enemy ship.  If you're trying to aim at a mid tier USN BB with a max speed of 21 kts, then you need to cut your lead by 1/3.  That is, if the shell flight time is 6 seconds, cut the lead from 6 to 4.  But if you're aiming at a ship with a speed greater than 30 kts, you need to increase the lead accordingly.

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19 minutes ago, permanentnoob said:

I think I read somewhere that the ticks are based on a BB going 20. Assuming that most targets you aim at are probably going faster than that, you need to move your aim point further to the bow to account for the speed diff. Hence, bow aiming.

Keep aiming at the cit, and your shells will be lucky to hit the stern, if not miss completely.

Not only the speed but also the size of the ship. If you are shooting a DD whose length is much shorter you also have to compensate for that. This makes bow aiming difficult to adjust when faced with different targets.

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17 minutes ago, Crucis said:

The dynamic crosshair is calibrated for 30 kts.  The static crosshair is supposedly calibrated for 20 kts.  But the problem is that because the static crosshair doesn't scale itself when you zoom in and out, the tick marks are pretty much meaningless.

Yes, it is why I decided to switch to dynamic even I had already played over 5k battles with static and the change screwed my aiming completely. When using static I stayed at maximum zoom level to keep the consistency of tick marks but for some targets I have to lead so much that the target ship is out of the binocular sight. Dynamic does way more better in such situation.

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