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DoIphin_Princess

Questions to Secondary Spec Captains From an HE Spammer

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Hi

Dedicated HE spammer here with a sincere question to those who spec their ships for secondaries

image.thumb.png.f7e4aeb5349749837df5a8c6b2d9d710.png

Why?

Ask any above average player and they will tell you the meta build for BBs is to spec into FP and CE, ask any top player and they will immediately tell you that secondaries are a joke.

But as far as I know, many players spec into secondaries because they find it fun.

Fun is purely subjective, and of course you can play the game however you want, but lately, as I progress through the RN DDs, I find that less and less likely.

As a dedicated HE spammer myself, I am met often with curses and all kinds of profanity from secondary spec captains when they get burned down in 2 minutes without the ability to retaliate.

So Why?

Do you find getting burned down fun? If you spec secondaries for fun then why would you rage when you inevitably will get destroyed by HE spam without FP and CE?

 

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I've done fine with Non-Survival Build Battleships.  I do tons of Secondary and AA Build BBs, works out just fine, and I still delete those spammers just fine.  The most hilarious thing is that people think FP / BOS is a must have set of traits for Battleships.  It isn't.

Edited by HazeGrayUnderway
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Dude. We know why they spec so heavily into secondaries, and I'm pretty certain you know why too! Many of the BBros would trade their 3rd nut for more auto damage and "anti DD alarms" for when they are investigating the map borders for illegal immigrants.

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being massively downvoted for pointing this exact thing out in another thread rn...

what do you mean theres no build variety?

 

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52 minutes ago, DoIphin_Princess said:

Hi

Dedicated HE spammer here with a sincere question to those who spec their ships for secondaries

image.thumb.png.f7e4aeb5349749837df5a8c6b2d9d710.png

Why?

Ask any above average player and they will tell you the meta build for BBs is to spec into FP and CE, ask any top player and they will immediately tell you that secondaries are a joke.

But as far as I know, many players spec into secondaries because they find it fun.

Fun is purely subjective, and of course you can play the game however you want, but lately, as I progress through the RN DDs, I find that less and less likely.

As a dedicated HE spammer myself, I am met often with curses and all kinds of profanity from secondary spec captains when they get burned down in 2 minutes without the ability to retaliate.

So Why?

Do you find getting burned down fun? If you spec secondaries for fun then why would you rage when you inevitably will get destroyed by HE spam without FP and CE?

 

Your ability is off the charts, everything average players do is going to seem odd to you.  Yet since the server is full of average players, they see no reason to change until they get reamed by a super uni in a DD burning them down.  Then the proposed change from them  is a nerf to fire damage.

I am pretty sure you already knew the answer to this question, so you are either flexing on the pubbies or looking to troll them into making indefensible assentation's.

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Because in a meta that heavily favors flinging shells from orbit there is something uniquely satisfying about pushing in a kurfurst, killing a cl with main guns, killing a dd with secondaries, throwing the entire enemy front line into disarray, allowing your cruiser and dd allies to push up to optimal positions and cap, and dying in a blaze of glory. Its never going to happen in ranked or cw, I'll grant you... but in randoms? Ride to valhalla shiny and chrome in your Massachusetts/KM BB. O7

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19 minutes ago, BiggieD61 said:

Your ability is off the charts, everything average players do is going to seem odd to you.  Yet since the server is full of average players, they see no reason to change until they get reamed by a super uni in a DD burning them down.  Then the proposed change from them  is a nerf to fire damage.

I am pretty sure you already knew the answer to this question, so you are either flexing on the pubbies or looking to troll them into making indefensible assentation's.

I don't think the OP is flexing or trolling, at least not intentionally. His/Her argument has merit; If you devote that many points for a secondary build that is only usable within 12km and often hampers the ability of your main battery and survivability, what entitles you to whine when someone sticks outside that range or uses cover/smoke to burn you to the waterline? Supposedly for picking a secondary build you must have known the cons you would have.

Sure, it's fun to do secondary builds, and recommended in some ships since it plays to their strengths, but in the meantime you are less stealthy in a meta where vision control is very important, your main battery is less accurate ( due to picking the secondary upgrade instead of the aiming one) and more susceptible to DoT damage in the form of HE. And quite a few ships got the Mass quick cooldown repair or improved heal to survive concentrated fire.

Edited by warheart1992

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1 hour ago, DoIphin_Princess said:

Hi

Dedicated HE spammer here with a sincere question to those who spec their ships for secondaries

Why?

Two reasons. Probability and inevitability.

During the times I play, there are perhaps 6 thousand players in the pool. 600 are really good, maybe 60 are unicums, and probably fewer than half a dozen are at your level. I like my odds of NOT playing against you and your peers.

If I do find myself in a battle with an elite player, and find myself having to go against them directly, I am GOING TO DIE. I'm simply not good enough or dedicated enough to affect that outcome. Whether by fire or flood, my pixel boat will flounder.

When that happens, I dial up another boat and start over immediately, since I now know the location of at least one unicum, and they won't be in the next battle.

 

In short: Me, Worry??? No. I'll play with ships I find fun and relaxing, accept the lumps that come my way, and enjoy the game.

 

 

Matt

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The fact the game has a mechanic that allows unicom DD players to burn down same tier BBs with science fiction plasma guns seems far more broke than the obvious irrelevancy of secondary builds.

 

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you can still spec into secondaries with fire prevention, it’s just not full secondary build.

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1 hour ago, Xanshin said:

Because in a meta that heavily favors flinging shells from orbit there is something uniquely satisfying about pushing in a kurfurst, killing a cl with main guns, killing a dd with secondaries, throwing the entire enemy front line into disarray, allowing your cruiser and dd allies to push up to optimal positions and cap, and dying in a blaze of glory. Its never going to happen in ranked or cw, I'll grant you... but in randoms? Ride to valhalla shiny and chrome in your Massachusetts/KM BB. O7

Yes, you have to know how to have fun in this game. I have glorious fun charging in the Scharnhorst, mostly to mine secondary hits for game tasks.  But your comments on glorious death rides to open up strategic opportunities for the rest of the team are noted, and I will be having a think about how to do that. 

1 hour ago, warheart1992 said:

I don't think the OP is flexing or trolling, at least not intentionally. His/Her argument has merit; If you devote that many points for a secondary build that is only usable within 12km and often hampers the ability of your main battery and survivability, what entitles you to whine when someone sticks outside that range or uses cover/smoke to burn you to the waterline?

Yep, and sometimes even less. You make your choices and accept the consequences, and hope for maps where you can use cover to keep the engagement ranges appropriate.

1 hour ago, mobryan said:

When that happens, I dial up another boat and start over immediately, since I now know the location of at least one unicum, and they won't be in the next battle.

In short: Me, Worry??? No. I'll play with ships I find fun and relaxing, accept the lumps that come my way, and enjoy the game.

 

+1. Otherwise why are you here? 

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2 hours ago, DoIphin_Princess said:

Hi

Dedicated HE spammer here with a sincere question to those who spec their ships for secondaries

image.thumb.png.f7e4aeb5349749837df5a8c6b2d9d710.png

Why?

Ask any above average player and they will tell you the meta build for BBs is to spec into FP and CE, ask any top player and they will immediately tell you that secondaries are a joke.

But as far as I know, many players spec into secondaries because they find it fun.

Fun is purely subjective, and of course you can play the game however you want, but lately, as I progress through the RN DDs, I find that less and less likely.

As a dedicated HE spammer myself, I am met often with curses and all kinds of profanity from secondary spec captains when they get burned down in 2 minutes without the ability to retaliate.

So Why?

Do you find getting burned down fun? If you spec secondaries for fun then why would you rage when you inevitably will get destroyed by HE spam without FP and CE?

 

Is there a reason you had to post your great stats? Just to show off? Use it as a hey look at me know what I am talking about, look at my stats, I'm better than you....

We all know that a secondary build isn't viable for high end clan wars and the like. And frankly, almost all that do build secondary builds never even play them (CW). However most that spec 2ndary builds, simply enjoy them, it is fun to brawl and create carnage for as long as possible. Remember it's a video game. I personally have several ships built for secondary's. Kurfurst, Bismarck, Derpits and the Mass I got yesterday.....It offers variety. It is fun. Why have the NC, Alabama and Mass and play them all the same way?

remember Princess, its a game, and thankfully you can only burn down 12 of us at a time....the remaining 12000 players online are safe from your greatness. 

 

 

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Most BB players don't know how to manage repair and heal, so they can't handle HE spam. As a result, everyone specs for survivability. I'm here to tell you an AA build BB is just fine if you know how to mitigate soft damage. Survivability builds are boring, the other builds are at least more interesting. While they're not good in competitive, a decent player can definitely make them work in Randoms.

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2 hours ago, Xanshin said:

Because in a meta that heavily favors flinging shells from orbit there is something uniquely satisfying about pushing in a kurfurst, killing a cl with main guns, killing a dd with secondaries, throwing the entire enemy front line into disarray, allowing your cruiser and dd allies to push up to optimal positions and cap, and dying in a blaze of glory. Its never going to happen in ranked or cw, I'll grant you... but in randoms? Ride to valhalla shiny and chrome in your Massachusetts/KM BB. O7

There was a time when the 2ndry build was the preferred build with a German BB. Mid tier DM BB's are meant for brawling. Just go look at the early reviews.  There's nothing like taking a DD or CL down with your secondaries, whilst citadelling a ramming BB.

Heck,   I remember when hiding behind islands,  and bow-tanking were considered unkulturny.  If you want to do that, then you should be playing tanks.

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Nothing freaks a DD out more than accurate secondaries. He learns quickly not to get spotted within 12km of me again :fish_viking:

It's also helpful when fighting cruisers, the extra pelts of damage quickly add up.

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There are many ships and builds that are not meta friendly, yet people play them in anyway in Randoms because they are fun. And they can often succeed if played well. Problem is that in high competitive where every player has deadly aim, getting up close just makes it easier to hit you, hence why those matches are so stagnant. Everyone hovers around cover and takes pot shots at one another hoping someone makes a mistake. KotS might have the best players in it, but most of the time, those matches are booooooring to watch.

Personally, I don't think FP is a necessity for the most part. It certainly does help, just as any 4 pointer should, but out of all my BB captains, only a single one, my Yamato guy, has FP. I often prefer other skills. Including a secondary build on my German captain that I use for fun.

The problem with a full manual secondary build is the sheer number of points needed to invest in it. You NEED both AFT and Manual Secondaries to make it work, with some even taking IFHE. That's 14 or 18 points right there spent for manual secondary fire alone. The other problem with it is that without those skills, your secondary batteries are completely useless due to some truly crazy dispersion and poor sigma. Those shells will fly all over the place. AA mounts work perfectly fine without a full AA build, even if an AA spec makes it better. Survivability builds only require FP ... and again, I don't feel under any real danger playing battleships without it. So every build besides secondary ones allows for decent Hybrids. Alongside CE, I could slot AFT and BOS to have a greater AA range while still taking less fire damage over time. Or I could grab FP and Vigilance. Hell, why not try RPF to know exactly where that sneaky DD is coming from, lol. Only secondary builds suffer here as pretty much all of them require 18 points base, either being AFT/MS/IFHE or AFT/MS/CE. This leaves no room for a second third point skill. Or AR. Or much of anything else.

That being said, with the change to BB AP on DDs, secondary builds might gain a resurgence in popularity ... but it won't last long as people will miss so many good skills.

Overall, secondary guns and secondary builds need a *major* buff. Specifically, it needs to be like AA where it's already fairly accurate on it's own, but is just made a bit better with the use of this skill. If DDs now can approach a BB without being overly afraid of BB guns, then secondary guns need to create a very dicey area for DDs, especially up close. The Manual Secondaries skill also needs to stop disabling the secondary guns entirely if not control clicking on a ship. Manual AA doesn't do this, so not sure why it has to be the case with secondaries.

As for people with those builds complaining about HE spammers ... I am not aware of any evidence that they complain any more or less than other battleship players. Those who know the game also know that said HE spam is the only way that cruisers have at dealing with battleships that can blap them instantly if they are not careful. And often times, those who do complain are complaining about being lit up by several HE spammers at once, to which I'd say ... DUH, you're being focus fired by several ships ... why would you expect to come out of this ahead in the first place?

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My Bismarck build does both.  Bismarck is an interesting ship because she has ok enough rudder shift to run dmg con 2, her concealment is good enough with just the module but not CE and her turret traverse is pretty good (plus slowish rudder).  My captain build is PM, PT, AR, BoS, AFT, ManSec, and FP.  I could swap out BoS for SI, but I'm pretty happy with it as is - best fire protection possible, and nearly best secondaries possible.

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Man, this has inspired a 2-step programme in me!

  1. Become super-unicum
  2. Come up with tenuous justifications to brag about it on the forum

See you in 4,000 games!

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Yeah, up to low and middle tiers, secundaries are still very effective. But in higher tiers their efficience falls a lot. Ships get more armor and the range of the engagements also increasse. They become very situational at T8+. You need a heavy investment for a situational use. While "tanky" builds are much better overall, with the current HE spam meta, tanky builds are always useful.

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whats fp and ce? Im new
also whats  

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My captain build is PM, PT, AR, BoS, AFT, ManSec, and FP.  I could swap out BoS for SI,

Also; is there a page that has these builds for captains?

Edited by buddahcjcc

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19 minutes ago, buddahcjcc said:

whats fp and ce? Im new
also whats  

Also; is there a page that has these builds for captains?

FP is Fire Prevention.  It's a 4 point skill that reduces the chance you get set on fire, but more critically reduces the most likely part of your ship to catch 2 fires down to 1.  CE is concealment expert which reduces your detection range (good thing) and also costs 4 pts.  Currently it scales up with ship type, but in a future patch it will be 10% across the board for everyone (nerf to everything but DDs).  The debate here is with limited skill points (19), whether spending exorbitant points on a secondary build versus a survival build is worthwhile.  I feel the Bismarck (and Tirpitz) are the few ships where you can enjoy both, others will disagree.

Edited by FrodoFraggin

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Wheres a good place to look for captain builds?
IM an HE spammer but mostly cause I havent really worked out aiming yet, it seems like a lot of guesswork

My max tier thus far is four though so Bismark is kinda beyond me still lol

 

 

Edited by buddahcjcc

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7 minutes ago, buddahcjcc said:

Wheres a good place to look for captain builds?
IM an HE spammer but mostly cause I havent really worked out aiming yet, it seems like a lot of guesswork

My max tier thus far is four though so Bismark is kinda beyond me still lol

 

 

Tier 4, you probably don’t have 10 commander points yet.  When you do, it will feel like you just summited Mt Everest.  But don’t get your hopes up, 10 points is only 10% of the XP required to have 19 points.  I.e., that grind you did to get one commander to 10, do that 9 more times to get that one commander another 9 points.  Commander XP is exponential, so 12 pts is 20% of max, 15ish is 50%.

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