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Bill_Halsey

Time to update/delete the Target Acquisition Mod?

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Not enough reward and too much risk.  Your detection value get's nerfed  by 20% in return for being to spot  a ship hiding behind and island at 3 km rather than 2 km.That can be lethal in a game that rewards not being spotted first.Considering that there are consumables that can detect ships at the 3-5 km range w/o sacrificing their detection values, the utility of this module is very low. How many CC's had actually recommended it? It may be time for this module to be removed, if not reworked. 

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I few need to be reworked especially when they finally launch the CV revamp. Maybe they'll even let us go past 19 skill points too whenever they rework the captain skills.

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11 minutes ago, Bill_Halsey said:

Not enough reward and too much risk.  Your detection value get's nerfed  by 20% in return for being to spot  a ship hiding behind and island at 3 km rather than 2 km.That can be lethal in a game that rewards not being spotted first.Considering that there are consumables that can detect ships at the 3-5 km range w/o sacrificing their detection values, the utility of this module is very low. How many CC's had actually recommended it? It may be time for this module to be removed, if not reworked. 

What exactly are you on about?

The assured range can be silly, unless your approaching smoke but counters all other ships use of CE/CSM to a degree when in the open and aids in spotting torps seconds sooner, with the only tradeoff being you can't take CSM that is 10% less detection, not 20%.

Unless it's something I've blocked out about the rage inducing rework stuff they posted in which case just add to the thread of growing dissenters against the rework. 

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1 minute ago, WanderingGhost said:

What exactly are you on about?

The assured range can be silly, unless your approaching smoke but counters all other ships use of CE/CSM to a degree when in the open and aids in spotting torps seconds sooner, with the only tradeoff being you can't take CSM that is 10% less detection, not 20%.

Unless it's something I've blocked out about the rage inducing rework stuff they posted in which case just add to the thread of growing dissenters against the rework. 

Well, answer 2 questions. 

Why has not been recommended for use?

How many folks do use it?

 

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12 minutes ago, Bill_Halsey said:

Well, answer 2 questions. 

Why has not been recommended for use?

How many folks do use it?

Actually, I used it in Halloween Ops for the Filth … no idea if it worked but it seemed logical :)

Some people hunt other ships … removing it would encourage even more passive game play 

Instead of removing it, they should make it better :)

Edited by Commander_367

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It'll render RNDD hydro useless instantly :Smile_trollface:

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28 minutes ago, Bill_Halsey said:

Your detection value get's nerfed  by 20%

No, it doesn't.  There are no negative effects from TAS, other than replacing Concealment System Mod 1.

Positive effects are pretty meh, though, so you're right there.

 

5 minutes ago, Commander_367 said:

Actually, I used it in Halloween Ops for the Filth :)

Yeah, me too.  It was okay.

Edited by iDuckman
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Concealment provides an extreme benefit (as you take zero or massively reduced shellfire from enemies that can't see you), versus the extremely situational benefit of 3 km assured detection (which only applies when either moving around an island or through smoke).

If TAS allowed you to counter spot radar/hydro ships on minimap (and minimap only, so you would still not spot/lock them; it would just mark position on the map like when you are too far to physically see them), I would guarantee you that TAS would become a viable alternative to concealment, and that would actually make sense over the way it currently works.

Edited by NATOMarksman
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Agreed. The current form is utterly useless.

Instead of being a set value, it should be an additive multiplier like Vigilance. So instead of 50% assured acquisition, it should be +X% on top of current acquisition. So it could add to Hydro or even possible Radar ranges. This would make it a more viable option I suspect.

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12 minutes ago, iDuckman said:

No, it doesn't.  There are no negative effects from TAS, other than replacing Concealment System Mod 1.

TBF, that's the deal breaker since it's effectively either +10% conceal / -5% Dispersion OR -40% RST / +80% RRT.

In return for those enormous bonuses you get an almost always utterly worthless total spotting range bonus since unlike tanks your spotting range is always several km further than your absolute maximum gun range and the hyper situational and not very useful even then most of the time assured ship + torp detection.

As it is, they'd have to make a lot of fundamental game altering measures such as implementing 'filth' type permanent spotting range reduction zones to some / all maps AND meganerf CM1+SG3 to make TAM viable as it is.

Honestly, what would really make TAM a viable alternative would be to flat out give it the RPF effect. This would be fair, imo, in that it would be gaining a powerful situational ability and 4 captain points (since there's no way to stack this with RPF without nerfing RPF as is or completely borking the game's balance) for the price of more general abilities...

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TASM1 has never been competitive at any point since this game launched.

 

IMO, it needs to be tweaked for offense since CSM1 is good for defense good for both offense and defense.  CSM1 is so good due to the benefits of the Full Stealth Build that even Battleships stand much to gain from it.  It is a "Big Deal" upgrade to the point that for certain ships, i.e. DDs, it completely changes things.  What a Tier VIII DD can do compared to the Tier VI-VII DDs that are in its MM Bracket is vastly different because CSM1 is available to the Tier VIII DD.  It is also coincidentally that even the once poor concealment USN DDs of prior tiers are suddenly Ninja Destroyers at VIII.

 

Current CSM1 benefits
Reduces ship detectability range:
-10% to detectability radius.
+5% to the maximum dispersion of enemy shells that fire on your ship.
Stacks with Concealment Expert.

 

Current TASM1 benefits

Increases maximum acquisition range:
+50% to range of assured acquisition of enemy ships.
+20% to spotting range.
+20% to the acquisition range of torpedoes.
The spotting mechanics ignore line-of-sight obstacles — such as islands — when within 2 km (3 km with this upgrade) from an enemy. That's the "assured acquisition" range. Stacks with Vigilance when spotting torpedoes.

Alter TASM1 to be:

+50% to range of assured acquisition of enemy ships (same as original).

+20% to the acquisition of range of torpedoes (same as original).

The spotting mechanics ignore line-of-sight obstacles — such as islands — when within 2 km (3 km with this upgrade) from an enemy. That's the "assured acquisition" range. Stacks with Vigilance when spotting torpedoes.

+5% improvement to dispersion of main and secondary batteries (added).

+0.1 improvement to main battery Sigma rating (added).

15% reduction in the detection range of torpedoes launched by this ship (added)

 

IMO, a ship gives up a lot when ditching CSM1 and a Full Stealth Build.  TASM1 should provide good benefits for anyone dropping CSM1.  Even Yamato with her amazing 18km detection range goes down to around 13.5km with CSM1 and Full Stealth Build.  She goes from being spotted as soon as the game starts and getting shot at to a scary massive BB that can suddenly pop up and surprise people at around 13.5km.

 

Edited by HazeGrayUnderway
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29 minutes ago, HazeGrayUnderway said:

Alter

Gun buffs are intriguing, but the Torp boost makes no sense.

I'd replace it with a boost to AA range (or damage?) for guns with a 5+ km stock AA range.

 

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4 minutes ago, iDuckman said:

Gun buffs are intriguing, but the Torp boost makes no sense.

I'd replace it with a boost to AA range (or damage?) for guns with a 5+ km stock AA range.

 

The torp boost makes sense because this mod should be useful to all the ships that drop CSM1 for it.  A DD that drops CSM1 makes a very significant concession because for almost all DDs, Full Stealth is Life or Death.  Otherwise this would be a BB / Cruiser only Mod.

Edited by HazeGrayUnderway

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2 hours ago, iDuckman said:

No, it doesn't.  There are no negative effects from TAS, other than replacing Concealment System Mod 1.

Positive effects are pretty meh, though, so you're right there.

 

Yeah, me too.  It was okay.

What he said. 

There is a difference between spotting range and detection range. The 20% is for spotting range, not detection range. It means you are able to see 20% further. Which is usually pretty useless..

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2 hours ago, NATOMarksman said:

Concealment provides an extreme benefit (as you take zero or massively reduced shellfire from enemies that can't see you), versus the extremely situational benefit of 3 km assured detection (which only applies when either moving around an island or through smoke).

If TAS allowed you to counter spot radar/hydro ships on minimap (and minimap only, so you would still not spot/lock them; it would just mark position on the map like when you are too far to physically see them), I would guarantee you that TAS would become a viable alternative to concealment, and that would actually make sense over the way it currently works.

This is a solution waiting to happen! +1

Maybe like an EM emitter … radar counter/scrambler?

Edited by Commander_367

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2 minutes ago, HazeGrayUnderway said:

The torp boost makes sense because this mod should be useful to all the ships that drop CSM1 for it.  A DD that drops CSM1 makes a very significant concession because for almost all DDs, Full Stealth is Life or Death.  Otherwise this would be a BB / Cruiser only Mod.

I understand why you included it.  I don't think it's right.  There is no tragedy if torp DDs don't find it useful.  Gun DDs may well find it useful.

 

 

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1 minute ago, DouglasMacAwful said:

It would be more viable if they moved it to slot2. Most of slot2's modules are fairly useless too  

Trouble with that is that Slot 2 mods cost a LOT less and are available to practically everything.  It should stay where it is.

 

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I'm a proponent of increasing your ability to spot ships at the cost of reducing your own survivability. With the new radar change, we can buff TASM1 to remove delays from friendly radar acquisition of any enemy ships. This comes at the cost of CSM1.

Another way to buff TASM1 is adding +15% to ship acquisition by hydroacoustics. This greatly encourages ships to be aggressive when pushing into caps covered by smoke and give some relevance back to hydro specialists.

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10 minutes ago, AbyssAngkor said:

I'm a proponent of increasing your ability to spot ships at the cost of reducing your own survivability. With the new radar change, we can buff TASM1 to remove delays from friendly radar acquisition of any enemy ships. This comes at the cost of CSM1.

Another way to buff TASM1 is adding +15% to ship acquisition by hydroacoustics. This greatly encourages ships to be aggressive when pushing into caps covered by smoke and give some relevance back to hydro specialists.

Be careful about buffing Hydro too much.  There's a risk of turning it into a more powerful form of Radar that lats several minutes and detects both torpedoes and ships.  Some Hydro already is about 5.8km detection of ships.  Be very careful...

Edited by HazeGrayUnderway

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7 minutes ago, HazeGrayUnderway said:

Be careful about buffing Hydro too much.  There's a risk of turning it into a more powerful form of Radar that lats several minutes and detects both torpedoes and ships.  Some Hydro already is about 5.8km detection of ships.  Be very careful...

Well, think of it this way: Z52 has 6.1km concealment with 6km hydro. With my version of TASM1, she becomes 6.7km detection with 6.9km hydro. The slight 200m in "stealth radar" window doesn't outweigh the massive 600-700m increase in detection. Yes, you can spot ships sooner, but you are also spotted sooner. Unlike radar, you have to put yourself in range of many enemy ships with hydro in most circumstances. The goal was to give a slight edge to TASM vs CSM on certain ships without either being the "go-to" mod for all ships.

Anyway, all this is a flash in the pan, smokes and mirrors. Let's just hope WG figures out a way not to break the game any further.

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3 hours ago, Bill_Halsey said:

Not enough reward and too much risk.  Your detection value get's nerfed  by 20% in return for being to spot  a ship hiding behind and island at 3 km rather than 2 km.That can be lethal in a game that rewards not being spotted first.Considering that there are consumables that can detect ships at the 3-5 km range w/o sacrificing their detection values, the utility of this module is very low. How many CC's had actually recommended it? It may be time for this module to be removed, if not reworked. 

I see your point. I only use TAM1 on my Tirpitz. I figure, in a Tirp, I’m going to be spotted most of the time anyway, and the extra notice for incoming torps is helpful (given no hydro). Also, during T8 Ranked, it was amusing to chase DDs out of their smoke screens and torp them back. 100% worth it!

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Not to mock. But is there anyone actually running that mod?? I see absolutely no use in it. That once in a 1000 battles in which you can outspot a DD in smoke? That's so utterly rare it doesn't give my any incentive to give up concealment or rudder shift. The torp acq? With some MM awareness and deduction it's quite easy to predict the spreads. And when I'm outplayed by a DD the TA mod will only make me see the inevitable coming 3 seconds earlier. My strong advice is never to take that. Remember the concealment module gives you an incoming fire dispersion buff as well!

 

 

Edit; I'm talking about all non Halloween matches here. Indeed with those TA was fine.

Edited by Ferry_25

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what about changing it so that it increases other peoples detection for your spotting? that way it directly counters CE

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Well concealment module gives -10% to concealment and -4% incoming dispersion. 

 

How about for Target module on top of the given buff, also include -2% to your own dispersion, it would give ships line high tier German BBs additional value by making them a little more accurate while buffing their hydro

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