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Sumseaman

Yeuyang artillery stats?

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Just curious if the Yang's guns got a small buff along with the reload nerf. Same artillery stats as the Gearing with a 1 second slower reload. Did I miss something?

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2 minutes ago, Sumwunskum said:

Just curious if the Yang's guns got a small buff along with the reload nerf. Same artillery stats as the Gearing with a 1 second slower reload. Did I miss something?

It gets access to radar, which Gearing doesn't have, sits lower in the water then gearing, and has a 100m spotting advantange, unless the Gearing is choosing to have worse DPM with legendary mod.

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You miss my point sorry. Both ships have an arty rating of 28.... I'm just wondering where the hidden stat is.

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13 minutes ago, HP_Lovesauce said:

It gets access to radar, which Gearing doesn't have, sits lower in the water then gearing, and has a 100m spotting advantange, unless the Gearing is choosing to have worse DPM with legendary mod.

Yueyang only gets access to radar at tge expense of smoke of any kind. In addition Yueyang's deep water torps can't hit destroyers of any size. Right now, the improved stealth is a tradeoff for not having the option to torp other destroyers, which is critical; especially in the early and late game.

 

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17 minutes ago, HP_Lovesauce said:

It gets access to radar, which Gearing doesn't have, sits lower in the water then gearing, and has a 100m spotting advantange, unless the Gearing is choosing to have worse DPM with legendary mod.

Sorry, the radar argument doesn't hold salt unless you complete the sentence by stating it gives up smoke to do so.

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Just now, Crokodone said:

Yueyang only gets access to radar at tge expense of smoke of any kind. In addition Yueyang's deep water torps can't hit destroyers of any size. Right now, the improved stealth is a tradeoff for not having the option to torp other destroyers, which is critical; especially in the early and late game.

 

Radar remains a huge tool for you to exploit, usually more reliant on spotting for teammates than anything else, but the utility means that YY can be almost oppressive in some cases, while Gearing never even approaches that level of dominance. Granted, for pure randoms play, Gearing will likely be a better generalist, but that doesn't meant YY should be specialized while retaining a lot of the utility that Gearing has.

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23 minutes ago, HP_Lovesauce said:

It gets access to radar, which Gearing doesn't have, sits lower in the water then gearing, and has a 100m spotting advantange, unless the Gearing is choosing to have worse DPM with legendary mod.

radar thats about to be nerfed, lacks the 21mm belt, more HP

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2 minutes ago, Warped_1 said:

Sorry, the radar argument doesn't hold salt unless you complete the sentence by stating it gives up smoke to do so.

Surely there's no way you could abuse a 1.7km vision buffer on any other DD if you had indications they were around.

The smoke, while standard on other DDs, will never really lead to anything but a disengagement tool and marginal damage farming on ships with your main battery for Yueyang. Your torps are likely to carry your damage against non DDs, and you will nearly always have the advantage on a first encounter with another DD, especially while divved or at least talking to nearby ships about popping your radar soon, short of blundering into RPF-ed torpedo salvos.

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2 minutes ago, HP_Lovesauce said:

Radar remains a huge tool for you to exploit, usually more reliant on spotting for teammates than anything else, but the utility means that YY can be almost oppressive in some cases, while Gearing never even approaches that level of dominance. Granted, for pure randoms play, Gearing will likely be a better generalist, but that doesn't meant YY should be specialized while retaining a lot of the utility that Gearing has.

Yueyang's radar last 15s and has a 7.5km range: shorter than Atlanta's. In addition, at best a radar Yueyang only has 4 charges of it. It takes a very conservative and controlled environment for a radar Yueyang to be that effective when she can still be perma spotted by CVs due to no DFAA capability.

All in all i find the Z-52 more intimidating and her excessive hydro and fast reload torps than the Yueyang, even more so if that Yueyang is running radar.

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1 minute ago, Hanger_18 said:

radar thats about to be nerfed, lacks the 21mm belt, more HP

The radar rework remains a thing for the distant future, so assuming that it'll have an impact any time soon is moot.
All the 21mm belt does is sometimes bounce the odd 203mm shell, while giving AP a better chance to arm, and I'd say better concealment, radar and a smaller profile is worth more than 900 HP, even while giving up smoke.

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2 minutes ago, HP_Lovesauce said:

The radar rework remains a thing for the distant future, so assuming that it'll have an impact any time soon is moot.
All the 21mm belt does is sometimes bounce the odd 203mm shell, while giving AP a better chance to arm, and I'd say better concealment, radar and a smaller profile is worth more than 900 HP, even while giving up smoke.

im more worried bout the belt shattering 127mm HE.

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24 minutes ago, Sumwunskum said:

You miss my point sorry. Both ships have an arty rating of 28.... I'm just wondering where the hidden stat is.

The rating number is fairly meaningless. (See Clemson getting something like +2 artillery rating while doubling its firepower.)

 

 

1 minute ago, Crokodone said:

Yueyang's radar last 15s and has a 7.5km range: shorter than Atlanta's. In addition, at best a radar Yueyang only has 4 charges of it. It takes a very conservative and controlled environment for a radar Yueyang to be that effective when she can still be perma spotted by CVs due to no DFAA capability.

All in all i find the Z-52 more intimidating and her excessive hydro and fast reload torps than the Yueyang, even more so if that Yueyang is running radar.

For pure solo randoms play, you could make an argument for it, but with any semblance of coordination, Yueyang remains the go to pick, also, shouldn't you mention that Gearing gives up the mobility and agility of speed boost for DF, since giving up smoke is apparently enough to make Radar not quite as good of a proposition?

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1 minute ago, Hanger_18 said:

im more worried bout the belt shattering 127mm HE.

And then they load AP and fullpen you, or just aim further forwards or back, or higher, if you're counting on tanking 127s in Gearing, I'm sort of worried.

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4 minutes ago, HP_Lovesauce said:

The rating number is fairly meaningless. (See Clemson getting something like +2 artillery rating while doubling its firepower.)
 

Ah no probs. Ok never paying attention to those values again! Anyone else also think that Gearing will see a blanket buff with the presence of, arguably, more carriers with the coming rework? DFAA will be a damn sight better consumable than radar will be...especially since that is being nerfed. 

Edited by Sumwunskum

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Just now, HP_Lovesauce said:

And then they load AP and fullpen you, or just aim further forwards or back, or higher, if you're counting on tanking 127s in Gearing, I'm sort of worried.

you be a fool not to use the belt. to bounce and shatter shells. it also doesnt take much of an angle to get the rest of the hull to be enough to arm those AP shells

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Just now, Hanger_18 said:

you be a fool not to use the belt. to bounce and shatter shells. it also doesnt take much of an angle to get the rest of the hull to be enough to arm those AP shells

It feels rather minor, and I just have gorgeous 5k damage salvos in mind from Grozovoi in ranked. Sure, it'll help a little, but I'm not sure if it's enough to warrant preferring it over vision control and just being smaller. All that said, my only experience with Yueyang was calling for it and playing with one in a division, while my experience with Gearing is owning one, so I can only speak about Yueyang in the context of somewhat organized play.

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4 minutes ago, HP_Lovesauce said:

The rating number is fairly meaningless. (See Clemson getting something like +2 artillery rating while doubling its firepower.)

 

 

For pure solo randoms play, you could make an argument for it, but with any semblance of coordination, Yueyang remains the go to pick, also, shouldn't you mention that Gearing gives up the mobility and agility of speed boost for DF, since giving up smoke is apparently enough to make Radar not quite as good of a proposition?

Under any circumstance where planes are involved, a DD having DFAA is huge as it dictates which sides DDs die; how and when. A DD without a smoke, in a coordinated setting can do absolutely nothing about being spotted and since she has no DFAA, Yueyang can even negate CV strikes on herself or nearby ships. 

Its supposed to be that way: Destroyers. In addition, Hindenburg has been out for how long? And she's neen the go to for every competitive mode even with the introduction of Stalingrad. Guess what: on top of being a absolutely powerful and popular Hindenburg got a buff.

These nerfs to Yueyang's guns are a absolutely unjustified even with her pathetic 15s 7.5km radar. If it takes 15s to finish you? You already lost.

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11 minutes ago, Crokodone said:

Under any circumstance where planes are involved, a DD having DFAA is huge as it dictates which sides DDs die; how and when. A DD without a smoke, in a coordinated setting can do absolutely nothing about being spotted and since she has no DFAA, Yueyang can even negate CV strikes on herself or nearby ships. 

Its supposed to be that way: Destroyers. In addition, Hindenburg has been out for how long? And she's neen the go to for every competitive mode even with the introduction of Stalingrad. Guess what: on top of being a absolutely powerful and popular Hindenburg got a buff.

These nerfs to Yueyang's guns are a absolutely unjustified even with her pathetic 15s 7.5km radar. If it takes 15s to finish you? You already lost.

KoTS isn't the only competitive setting, and CVs still remain rare at T10, so, for the most part, DF is more of a situational tool than a general one like radar.

YY has been the darling of CBs since her introduction, and the gun nerf will do nothing to touch that, and Hinden's hold continues to erode, with her only claim to fame being that she can do consistent, if low, damage to Moskva and Stalingrad, she's nowhere near her prime. I don't disagree the nerf to YY's guns is strange considering her radar is the main thing making her as much of a no brainer pick, but WG works in mysterious way, but it does, in a way, address YY's capabilities of matching Gearing generalist playstyle while having strong vision control.

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1 hour ago, HP_Lovesauce said:

It gets access to radar, which Gearing doesn't have, sits lower in the water then gearing, and has a 100m spotting advantange, unless the Gearing is choosing to have worse DPM with legendary mod.

We've heard this story from WG already; few are buying it.

100m is nothing. 3.1 seconds with Leg. mod and BFT versus 3.6 seconds with BFT and Gearing has torps that can actually kill other DDs.

How high they sit in the water has zero direct bearing on their ability to do damage. Gearing should be lower anyway. 

Furthermore, mere comparisons between Yueyang vs. Gearing does not even come close to a fully considering balance overall. Chung Mu is now about as good as Yueyang, if not better. That means Fletcher is in about the same relative position. There's more...

If Yueyang's radar is the issue then don't fix it by massively nerfing its offensive and defensive abilities; simply adjust its radar.

Edited by MrKillmister

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14 minutes ago, HP_Lovesauce said:

KoTS isn't the only competitive setting, and CVs still remain rare at T10, so, for the most part, DF is more of a situational tool than a general one like radar.

Who said it was? In addition the cv rework aims to end that permanently.

14 minutes ago, HP_Lovesauce said:

 


YY has been the darling of CBs since her introduction,

Same as Zao and Hindenburg 

14 minutes ago, HP_Lovesauce said:

and the gun nerf will do nothing to touch that,

Thats a bit out of tuch when Yueyang's guns are her core factor.

14 minutes ago, HP_Lovesauce said:

and Hinden's hold continues to erode, with her only claim to fame being that she can do consistent, if low, damage to Moskva and Stalingrad,

Have you playes any of those ships? Because thats the opposite of my experiences in Moskva vs Hindenburg. Iom top of negating 50mm plating 100%, Hindenburg doesn't have to waste captain points on IFHE to make optimize her peimary armament; on top of having German Hydro and a trollish turtleback.

On the other hand Yueyang nerf is a blatemt attempt to sieze control of the player's enjoyment.

14 minutes ago, HP_Lovesauce said:

she's nowhere near her prime.

Om the contrary, With the legendary buff, Hindenburg not only is in her prime she is in her Apex when she comes into contact with her legendary module. The HIV is her closest comparison and she has to spec IFHE just to pen not only 50mm plating but German and American BB decks as well.

14 minutes ago, HP_Lovesauce said:

I don't disagree the nerf to YY's guns is strange considering her radar is the main thing making her as much of a no brainer pick,

Radar is hardly that influential when it can only function for 60s out of the entire 20minute game.

14 minutes ago, HP_Lovesauce said:

but WG works in mysterious way, but it does, in a way, address YY's capabilities of matching Gearing generalist playstyle while having strong vision control.

When Yueyang doesn't counter or matches Gearings playstyle; when it comes to capability all ships intersect at some point. 

Gearing is the traditional DD in all respects. Whereas Yueyang is more of a torpedo cruiser with smoke or a picket ship with radar slotted. To exacerbate this niche, Yueyang,  unlike Gearing  or Z-52 is extremely vulnerable to any IJN gun boats or RN DDs due to being unable to torpedo the or intimidate them with the probability of a torpedo.

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9 minutes ago, MrKillmister said:

 

If Yueyang's radar is the issue then don't fix it by massively nerfing its offensive and defensive abilities; simply adjust its radar.

Yeah! The Worcester treatment.

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1 hour ago, MrKillmister said:

If Yueyang's radar is the issue then don't fix it by massively nerfing its offensive and defensive abilities; simply adjust its radar.

radar is being changed anyway

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24 minutes ago, Hanger_18 said:

radar is being changed anyway

Throw that into this dumpster fire, too. 

Sub-O vaguely mentioned something about that in Anaheim. 

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