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steelers_rule_2018

THEY WANT YOU TO SHOOT HE. wth is going on with WG?

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So they fixed something that didn't need fixing and on the stream he said you should switch to HE?

I don't get it. HE SPAM, SPAWN CAPPING AND BB's not supporting anyone is just going to lead to more stagnant gameplay with cruisers and DD's getting no support. 

All they had to do was RNG that bow on shot damage or reduce it somewhat.. Not this [edited] overpen 10% flat which makes ZERO sense in any real life shot. 

This is going to cost them players and money. 

 

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A bit of an overreaction. Let's see how it goes longer term. My main concern is damage saturation rapidly reduces the damage BB HE does to DDs leading to AP overpens doing more reliable damage oddly enough.

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Yea, they want to think ahead and use switch between the two available ammo types depending on the situation, that's crazy!. Gonna be so hard for BBs to figure it out!

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Just now, Kapitan_Wuff said:

Yea, they want to think ahead and use switch between the two available ammo types depending on the situation, that's crazy!. Gonna be so hard for BBs to figure it out!

Except that they take 30 seconds to switch ammo. Not 10 seconds like on a cruiser. Or 4 seconds like on a DD.

But if you'd like to run a training room scenario with a friend in a DD, go ahead and ask your friend to yolo charge you from 6km away. Grab a stopwatch, switch to HE only when the DD is spotted, and then go ahead and tell me how many times you come out of that situation alive.

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Just now, Kapitan_Wuff said:

Yea, they want to think ahead and use switch between the two available ammo types depending on the situation, that's crazy!. Gonna be so hard for BBs to figure it out!

I don't even care anymore frankly. They can try and force me to play a BB like an HE spamming ship but I will not do it.  I load AP and just leave AP for the game in every BB I have except for BRN ones and Scharnhorst. Just takes way too long to swap it when needed and the AP is what you should shoot at the other stuff. And frankly HE tends to break modules for little or no damage far more than it does actual damage on DD's anyway. Rather have at least 10% over pen damage than break 3 modules and have the DD take NO damage.

I seriously wonder if the people in charge at WG who make these decisions actually play the game? If so I think they are DD mains.

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6 minutes ago, KaptainKaybe said:

Except that they take 30 seconds to switch ammo. Not 10 seconds like on a cruiser. Or 4 seconds like on a DD.

But if you'd like to run a training room scenario with a friend in a DD, go ahead and ask your friend to yolo charge you from 6km away. Grab a stopwatch, switch to HE only when the DD is spotted, and then go ahead and tell me how many times you come out of that situation alive.

But as the game consists of 2 teams if the BB is supporting the CAs and  DDs why should it ever have to worry about an enemy DD rushing it? :Smile_honoring:

6 minutes ago, AdmiralThunder said:

I don't even care anymore frankly. They can try and force me to play a BB like an HE spamming ship but I will not do it.  I load AP and just leave AP for the game in every BB I have except for BRN ones and Scharnhorst. Just takes way too long to swap it when needed and the AP is what you should shoot at the other stuff. And frankly HE tends to break modules for little or no damage far more than it does actual damage on DD's anyway. Rather have at least 10% over pen damage than break 3 modules and have the DD take NO damage.

I seriously wonder if the people in charge at WG who make these decisions actually play the game? If so I think they are DD mains.

Linked with the above comment, unless there are only a few to no Cruisers on your side and your support to your DDs would be greatly appreciated, I would see no reason to load HE unless it is end game and you only have DDs to kill (and lets face it, according to the stats the DDs will be the less likely to survive lol). :Smile_honoring:

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Unless you are using expert loader, one would be stupid to spend 30 seconds switching and not shooting their ap. Salvo first and then switching to he. 

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4 minutes ago, _WaveRider_ said:

But as the game consists of 2 teams if the BB is supporting the CAs and  DDs why should it ever have to worry about an enemy DD rushing it? :Smile_honoring:

Linked with the above comment, unless there are only a few to no Cruisers on your side and your support to your DDs would be greatly appreciated, I would see no reason to load HE unless it is end game and you only have DDs to kill (and lets face it, according to the stats the DDs will be the less likely to survive lol). :Smile_honoring:

I support DD/Cruises who push. And I don't mean just Co-op. When I do play PVP I push up as well. No back line hiding, camping, sniping, HE spamming here. I may be a bad PVP shot but when I do connect the reds feel it because I have the proper load for a BB loaded = AP. :Smile_izmena:

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6 minutes ago, Ducky_shot said:

Unless you are using expert loader, one would be stupid to spend 30 seconds switching and not shooting their ap. Salvo first and then switching to he. 

Foolish to swap to HE even after shooting off the AP. The DD most likely will be long gone by the time 30 sec's passes.

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1 minute ago, AdmiralThunder said:

I support DD/Cruises who push. And I don't mean just Co-op. When I do play PVP I push up as well. No back line hiding, camping, sniping, HE spamming here. I may be a bad PVP shot but when I do connect the reds feel it because I have the proper load for a BB loaded = AP. :Smile_izmena:

And I am agreeing with you. There is no real reason to load HE unless you know you are going to be facing DDs in the main. That is the job of your DDs and Cruisers; what WG has done is merely given you additional rounds (HE) to deal with DDs if you need to. When you choose to use them (if at all) is up to you. :Smile_honoring:

 

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36 minutes ago, KaptainKaybe said:

Except that they take 30 seconds to switch ammo. Not 10 seconds like on a cruiser. Or 4 seconds like on a DD.

But if you'd like to run a training room scenario with a friend in a DD, go ahead and ask your friend to yolo charge you from 6km away. Grab a stopwatch, switch to HE only when the DD is spotted, and then go ahead and tell me how many times you come out of that situation alive.

They should add a one point captain skill that accelerates switching ammo types or something.

Ps, if your waiting till the DD is spotted to react you are doing it wrong, situational awareness is OP.

36 minutes ago, AdmiralThunder said:

I don't even care anymore frankly. They can try and force me to play a BB like an HE spamming ship but I will not do it.  I load AP and just leave AP for the game in every BB I have except for BRN ones and Scharnhorst. Just takes way too long to swap it when needed and the AP is what you should shoot at the other stuff. And frankly HE tends to break modules for little or no damage far more than it does actual damage on DD's anyway. Rather have at least 10% over pen damage than break 3 modules and have the DD take NO damage.

I seriously wonder if the people in charge at WG who make these decisions actually play the game? If so I think they are DD mains.

:Smile_child:

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20 minutes ago, AdmiralThunder said:

Foolish to swap to HE even after shooting off the AP. The DD most likely will be long gone by the time 30 sec's passes.

I'm not switching to HE... just if those people do decide to go with HE, they don't totally screw up by switching ammo first.

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35 minutes ago, _WaveRider_ said:

And I am agreeing with you. There is no real reason to load HE unless you know you are going to be facing DDs in the main. That is the job of your DDs and Cruisers; what WG has done is merely given you additional rounds (HE) to deal with DDs if you need to. When you choose to use them (if at all) is up to you. :Smile_honoring:

 

Oh I know. Was just continuing the point you made. That's all. :Smile_veryhappy:

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20 minutes ago, Kapitan_Wuff said:

They should add a one point captain skill that accelerates switching ammo types or something.

Ps, if your waiting till the DD is spotted to react you are doing it wrong, situational awareness is OP.

:Smile_child:

:Smile_sceptic:

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23 minutes ago, Kapitan_Wuff said:

They should add a one point captain skill that accelerates switching ammo types or something.

Ps, if your waiting till the DD is spotted to react you are doing it wrong, situational awareness is OP.

:Smile_child:

Yes, but that's the point everyone is trying to make. Because AP now stands zero chance of posing any real danger to DDs with decent health remaining, what'll end up happening is many BBs will just permanently keep HE loaded unless they are absolutely positive, beyond any reason of a doubt, that no enemy DDs are lurking nearby. Even if there are juicy cruiser broadsides to shoot at.

And yes, it does appear Expert Loader will become a mandatory skill for battleships now. Which kind of sucks, honestly.

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Well, it was already fairly unusual to get good strike on DD with a BB, and the main victim of that will still get the ''full damage'' (IJN gunboat and Russian gunboat). For the rest, sure you may have to decide what is your priorities (fighting DD or Cruiser and BB) depending of the enemy team composition/ what should be on your flank. It will also improve the effectiveness of Secondaries build since they can keep DD at bay without using their main guns. I do not see it as a real problem.

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1 hour ago, _WaveRider_ said:

But as the game consists of 2 teams if the BB is supporting the CAs and  DDs why should it ever have to worry about an enemy DD rushing it? :Smile_honoring:

Linked with the above comment, unless there are only a few to no Cruisers on your side and your support to your DDs would be greatly appreciated, I would see no reason to load HE unless it is end game and you only have DDs to kill (and lets face it, according to the stats the DDs will be the less likely to survive lol). :Smile_honoring:

You are assuming the Cruisers and DDs on your team are doing their job and not targetting enemy BBs, which is most often the case.   So basically, everyone is targeting the BBs.

Unless there is a Pcola around,, then everyone targets the Pcola.  :)

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1 hour ago, Ducky_shot said:

Unless you are using expert loader, one would be stupid to spend 30 seconds switching and not shooting their ap. Salvo first and then switching to he. 

1.  Expert Loader only works when your guns are already fully loaded.

2. Expert Loader will not be efficient if you aren't shooting your front and back turrets at the same target, because you'll end up with your front and back turrets on different reload cycles.

3. Expert Loader is an utterly ridiculous skill because it is 180o the opposite of real life.  Not just kind of different from real life, but completely the opposite of real life.  In real life, the fastest way to change ammo in already loaded guns would be to just fire the guns to clear the chambers.  And if anything, trying to pull the charges and then pull the shell slows the reload process considerably.  It might be easier with smaller guns that use shells that are more like bullets, with the charges and the shell in a single package.

 

As is, the Expert Loader skill is profoundly stupid and should be replaced with a skill that improves the basic reload speed of all guns, perhaps split into 2 levels similar to other skills, such as Expert Marksman, 139mm and below has one speed, and 140mm and above has a different speed.  (Of course, this would necessitate changes to other skills that affect reload speeds, but those should just be adjusted to improve dispersion instead.)

EDIT:  BTW, I understand that this is an "arcade game" (stupid term for such a relatively complex game) and not a sim.  But the solution I suggest in the above paragraph is NOT a complex one.  If anything, it's simpler to use and understand than the existing version of Expert Loader.

Edited by Crucis
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1 hour ago, steelers_rule_2018 said:

So they fixed something that didn't need fixing and on the stream he said you should switch to HE?

I don't get it. HE SPAM, SPAWN CAPPING AND BB's not supporting anyone is just going to lead to more stagnant gameplay with cruisers and DD's getting no support. 

All they had to do was RNG that bow on shot damage or reduce it somewhat.. Not this [edited] overpen 10% flat which makes ZERO sense in any real life shot. 

This is going to cost them players and money. 

 

Steelers, you're wrong to say that this wasn't something that didn't require a fix.  The issue here is that their solution is an overreach, IMO.  The problem was that BB AP was double dipping in its damage.  It was getting overpen damage AND full pen damage on a single AP shell hit, when it should have only been one or the other.

What I'm suspecting, though I haven't heard them say so, is that they found that the real problem was very difficult to fix, so they went with this "all large AP hits on DD are overpens" solution, because it was easier to program.

 

As for the concern about seeing more HE, this is something I predicted back when this idea was first floated.  Any time any BB even suspects that an enemy DD may be within torpedo range (let's say, under 10km), they may just stick with HE.  Note that this doesn't really apply to RN BBs that would normally spam HE in the same way, since it really wouldn't be changing their normal M.O.  

I do have to wonder how this BB AP change affected RN short fuse BB AP.  After all, what's the point of having short fuse AP if it's just going to automatically overpen on DDs anyways.

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It was a problem in a small number of chances and only if bow on or kiting away. RNG all the way. They just had to adjust the values on THAT SPECIFIC SHELL ANGLE not all angles if they were that worried about it, which they shouldn't be.

THIS DRAMATICALLY changes the game and is a nerf for all BB ships except RN. Get ready to see more Conquerors coming. I just had 6 overpens on a cruiser with AP in one volley on my Conq. 

Edited by steelers_rule_2018

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1 hour ago, KaptainKaybe said:

ask your friend to yolo charge you from 6km away

Not exactly a fair or realistic scenario. When was the last time any BB was within 6km of the front line?

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9 minutes ago, n00bot said:

Not exactly a fair or realistic scenario. When was the last time any BB was within 6km of the front line?

First off, BBs are generally around 10 to 15km from their targets ... which means sometimes getting even closer to a cap if they are shooting at cruisers behind it. A BB shooting at targets 20km is a BB who's not going to be terribly effective that match.

And the moment a BB's screen disappears, the DDs can simply sail towards them. They just need to sail towards the BBs bow and poof, dead BB. Zero chance of survival. Zilchus Absolutus, lol. The smart thing now for BBs that lose their screens is to run the frak away as quickly as possible. The only shot they have is to make sure that they are running away from a charging DD rather than being bow on or side on to one.

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40 minutes ago, SeaborneSumo said:

You are assuming the Cruisers and DDs on your team are doing their job and not targetting enemy BBs, which is most often the case.   So basically, everyone is targeting the BBs.

Unless there is a Pcola around,, then everyone targets the Pcola.  :)

Then if they are targeting the BBs the other teams DDs and CAs should have fun wiping them out....then it really doesn't matter does it, as the enemy BBs will hit their heals and you will be facing all 3 classes.

That's down to bad team play, not whether you have loaded HE or AP.

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